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S30TRBO

Project 240Z Turbo ITB Install

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So I am converting the Z over to EFI getting ready for the turbo install later this year. I dynoed the Z with the L28ET w/ SU's on it after the break in. Now I am installing the Extrudabody ITB with the SDS and God knows what else I have in parts that I have been collecting over the years. The ITB's will make it's way over to the 810 once I dyno it and figure out what intake manifold I am going with for the turbo setup.

 

Here are the pictures:

Z Therapy SU's and Intake Manifold removed:

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Prepping ITB Intake Manifold:

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Swapping in allen caps for the bolts:

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14lb Ford Fuel Injectors:

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Extrudabody ITB's mounted:

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Fuel rail mounted:

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Mikuni Short Runner Intake Manifold:

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Mechanical Fuel Pump Blocked Off:

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Mounted with Filters on:

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FPR Mounted:

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I have a Extrudabody vacuum distribution block to install and all the A/N fittings and s/s braided lines. Then it is on to the gas tank, fuel pump then the SDS install.

Going on vacation for a week starting tomorrow so I might not have a chance to respond right away.

 

Thanks,

Edited by BRAAP

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ITB for now to put some more miles on the turbo motor. I already have a custom turbo exhaust manifold. I need to decided on what intake manifold to go with i.e. N42 non EGR, custom Blake Machine jobber, stock TB, TWM, Q45. I just want to get the bugs worked out of the ITB as they will go on the 810 soon.

 

I am at a library in Western NY on vacation. I'll respond more later....

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Hi Joe

Great looking setup!

I'm casting my own ITB EFI manifold. I have an L28 with an E88 head. I'm trying to figure out my injector sizing and thought I had it nailed until I saw your post. The calculators I used are calling for a larger injector than the 14LB your using. I'm not quetioning your choice I'm wondering if I'm thinking a little too big. Can you give me a little info on how you made your choice?

 

Thanks

Derek

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i'm betting that the intake sound will be intoxicating! oh, looks great as well!!

 

You know it!!! Thanks David :)

 

Oops I meant to say valve cover. I had been thinking about manifolds for the last week. :)

 

Yes the valve cover matches the rest of the suspension. It's called silver vein hammer tone.

 

How happy are you with the Extrudabody TBs? How is the hardware and linkage?

 

Ron, the craftsmanship and quality are bar none to anything else I have seen. I'll let you know the rest as soon as I get her running.

 

Hi Joe

Great looking setup!

I'm casting my own ITB EFI manifold. I have an L28 with an E88 head. I'm trying to figure out my injector sizing and thought I had it nailed until I saw your post. The calculators I used are calling for a larger injector than the 14LB your using. I'm not quetioning your choice I'm wondering if I'm thinking a little too big. Can you give me a little info on how you made your choice?

 

Thanks

Derek

 

I thought the same thing. I had 550cc Nismo injectors and asked Kevin from Extrudabody his opinion. He said for n/a application they will drown the motor at idle. 14lbs are what he ran on the green 280Z "shop car". With those 14lb injectors he said he puts about 3.5 mili-seconds of fuel at idle, and it idles at 900 rpm.

 

That looks sick! I bet that thing is gonna roar.

 

Thanks Austin, I hope you can make yourself available with the SDS install in case I have some questions? I should be able to run your old setup minus a few sensors for my temp n/a configuration?

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I am about two weeks behind in posting pictures since putfile decided to stop allowing me upload my pictures. After I successfully uploaded new photos it shows the photos that I listed in my last successful attempt. Anyways, I submitted a "trouble ticket" on the 4th and have yet to hear anything. So I opened up a photobucket account in the meantime.

 

Saturday the 26th of July

 

A friend of mine and his mother in law came over and sorted through the SDS wiring and they both started to run the harness and had to cut there day short do to other obligations. After they left I did some more wire management and mounted the resistor and coil packs.

 

I had to order a fuel pump and electric fan relay from SDS. Also I ordered as a back up another GM knock sensor. I was told by Ross at SDS that I can run the stock knock sensor so I may track a new one down since I don't want to modify the block to accept the GM knock sensor. Follow so far...good? Here are some pics as well as the GM boogered up knock sensor verses the Nissan one which has two prongs. I also had to order one spark plug wire from Scott Performance Wire since I had one that was 1.5" too short.

 

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Saturday the 2nd of August

 

Chris Rummel came over and gave me a hand. We dropped the stock 240Z gas tank, installed Billet Speciality Optima Battery Mount, mounted the ground and dropped the positive down for now. Then we installed the modified 240Z gas tank complete with dual 1/2 pipe thread feed and return, baffled and sumped by Moyer Gas Tank. Thanks again Chris for the help!!

 

I ordered some Raychem DR-25 high temp heat shrink tubing in various diameters along with Raychem injector harness high temp heat shrink boots for the SDS harness. I also picked up a Taurus electric fan with shroud and harness from the junkyard for $35 with a lifetime warranty. I also had my down pipe welded with an 02 sensor bung.

 

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Next weekend I will finish running the positive battery cable to the front, make a plate for the rear fuel pump mount, work on swapping out the stock ZX crank pulley for the modified NISMO/SDS pulley with the magnets installed on the rear for the hall sensor. Still some little things as well however the list is getting shorter!!

 

I won't need the GM Knock sensor after getting it from SDS I found a junked 280ZXT in the junkyard and looked at the harness. It looks like it has a red and black wire (power and ground I assume) using standard bullet connectors.

 

DSCF0207.jpg

 

Pete Paraska had a great comment to me in an email

I see you are grounding the battery to the chassis. Are you also running a ground cable forward to the engine? If not, I suggest you do so. Otherwise, the lights will not be full brightness, etc. as the ground side of things at the front of the car will have to deal with a voltage drop (yes, even on the ground side) due to using the body/chassis as a ground to connect to the negative post on the battery. The battery will also never really get a good charge. If you don't have a big (as big as the positive cable) negative cable going from the battery to the engine block and chassis near the headlights, then I suggest that you put one in.

 

Thanks for the great advice Pete! :cheers:

 

So I did some research and found a site that makes custom cables since I can't find anyone local or summit/jegs to buy another long black 2 gauge wire without spending $70+ on a set.Here is the site http://www.custombatterycables.com I just sent him an email lets see how this goes. He also makes 280Z cables but I don't need no stinking NOS parts!! I am thinking of having him make me a 2 wire negative set using a flag terminal. One to the chassis and one to the starter bolt. Hell they have a 12 ton hydraulic crimper and seal the ends. The only draw back is this guy does it part time so it might take 1-2 weeks.

 

On the headlight side I have AutoPal H4 with Dave Irwin's headlight upgrade harness and parking light upgrade harness and I did the ZX alternator upgrade. I think if I ground the block I will be good to go. I also have a dedicated 4 gauge wire that runs from the starter to a 20 amp in line fuse to a 6 gang distribution block with 8 gauge outs. I plan on splitting some of those down to run gauges, SDS, wide band 02, and other accessories.

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I thought the same thing. I had 550cc Nismo injectors and asked Kevin from Extrudabody his opinion. He said for n/a application they will drown the motor at idle. 14lbs are what he ran on the green 280Z "shop car". With those 14lb injectors he said he puts about 3.5 mili-seconds of fuel at idle, and it idles at 900 rpm.

 

Sorry I'm a bit late to the conversation, but I'm thinking that's a bit small, too - aren't the stock injectors bigger than that?

 

Six 14lb injectors are only good for about 170hp, and that's assuming higher compression for .5 BFSC, and 100% duty cycle. Probably really only good for 140-150hp at the flywheel. 550cc might be a bit too big, but I'd think you'd want to at least be in the high teens or low 20's. What were your horsepower goals?

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You are correct Tim, the stockers are around 19-21# if I recall. 170 to 270CC/Min something like that (N/A and Turbo). N/A cars driven by a standalone seem to like Turbo Z injectors without much adoo...

 

V8 injectors are far smaller than sixes-hence the 14# number.

 

The SDS ECU should have enough resolution in pulsewidth to get a decent idle at 550's. Megasquirt doesn't have a problem with the Supra Injectors, and my HKS ITB setup ran fine with Supra Injectors (440CC/Min) being driven by a fuel-only SDS unit.

 

I hope there is a big cam in that thing. I got the HKS ITB setup and the SDS from someone who installed it on their stroker motor, and ended up terminally getting around 17HP more (at 6500rpms) than he did with his Clifford Research Manifold and Holley Four Barrel.

 

His loss, my gain. Though I did pay a $1600 premium for his efforts over the cost he sniped the HKS units off E-Bay from me (but I got the fuel rail, injectors, and SDS unit...LOL).

 

At any rate, you should be able to run the 550's with the SDS.

 

And I agree, the 14# are smaller than the stock N/A units. Come to think of it, they are smaller than the L20E units! They were 17# if I'm not mistaken.

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Hey joe:

 

I used 16lbs on the Stock 280Z Motor Set-up, with an Elevated Pressure!

 

Kevin

 

Ok now I am confused Kevin. You told me in a PM that you are running 14#, now we are at 16#. :confused2

 

 

Anyways, Tim and Tony. I do have Mr. Injector 14# and Bosch 42# "Green Top" and NISMO 550cc. When I originally talked to Kevin at Extrudabody I told him I was going to use my NISMO 550cc and that is what started our conversation of what he has and what I would need to down grade too. So at first I could not find the 14# that he spoke of so I ordered 42#. I'd like to use my NISMO's once the turbo goes on but they dont' make rails for the Nissan style injectors only for Bosch-style injectors or Pico-style injectors. Kevin ended up finding them through Mr. Injector and I bought the #14 which are in there now. So I guess the 42# are going in...

 

The plan is the ITB's will move over to the 810 once i figure out what intake manifold I am going to use on the Z. I have a N42 non-EGR or I'll go with a bandmzcars.com custom intake or something along this line to bring me to my 400-450rwhp level? All this is a progression from the SU's, ITB's to what the turbo setup will have. I am also dynoing along the way so I can see the gains rather than guessing and feeling them.

 

 

I hope there is a big cam in that thing.

 

Isky

*Lift 490 intake, Lift 480 exhaust

*290 intake duration, 280 exhaust duration

*1/14 lobe center

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Joe:

 

Jack the Pressure up on the 14lbs/hr and see where you are! Now that you posted the link to Mr Injector, those are exactly the same injectors I was running on the Green Z, but if you are running a different Head, exhaust, or have ported the intake ports, than what I was running then the Injector size of Prssure will be different.

Rated Injector Flow Rate 14

Flow Rate Pressure at Rated Injector Flow Rate 43.5

New Fuel Pressure 60

New Pressure New Injector Flow Rate 16.4422

 

 

Link to Estimator Software: http://www.extrudabody.com/TechInfo/Tuning.html

 

It does BASE MAP Generation as well.

 

Kevin

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The only think to note if you are using a stock Nissan Fuel Pump is the internal relief will start lifting and seriously decrease flow with 60psi at the pump. That would likely result in 55 or less psi available at the engine, possibly less depending on flow usage.

I could see 45psi (3 Bar) on a stock Nissan Pump, but 60 is just going to cause problems.

 

Especially given the fact that 440CC/Min Supra Injectors will run fine in N/A applications on the SDS's resolution at idle.

 

Idle is not really that much an issue, really. Like someone posted, even in an N/A application at peak torque (say around 4500 for grabbing a number out of my butt) 25# injectors are at nearly 100% duty cycle to supply adequate fuel. You have a cam, and it is going to want fuel at the torque plateau.

 

As an example of what I have a 160CC/min injector in: 1641CC Vw Bug Engine with Engle 110Cam, making around 58HP to the Rear Wheels. It works nicely in that engine.

 

I'd say the 16# for a cammed engine is far undersized, the minimum I would go (and what I put in most anything I do with a Megasquirt) is the Turbo 25# (270cc/Min) injectors. For a bone stock L28 a 16# might work, but playing around with fuel pressure just adds to issues down the road.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to run the 42# units. For the Turbo install 550's would work, but I'd see where the idle quality goes and what pulsewidth you are running to judge if the 550's would be applicable straight out the box. They might, but you have to see where you are with the 42' first.

 

It's more than size, as well. What type of spray or pintile configuration you hvae can affect your idle as much as the size of the injector.

 

JeffP had a terrible time with one configuration of 650cc/min injectors getting a decent idle. Swapped over to another configuration (I think he went away from the ring/disc style) at 720CC/min and it idled MUCH better as the injector was controlling the fuel much more efficiently.

 

So in that case, a larger injector worked better than a differently configured smaller injector.

 

But to me, even for a stock motor, 14 or 16# is marginal, there is no room for growth there. I think under the torque peak, you will run out of fuel.

 

I'm not a big fan of jacking the fuel pressure when you can properly size the injectors in the first place.

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JeffP had a terrible time with one configuration of 650cc/min injectors getting a decent idle. Swapped over to another configuration (I think he went away from the ring/disc style) at 720CC/min and it idled MUCH better as the injector was controlling the fuel much more efficiently.

 

Tony, are the new 720cc/min injectors that Jeff is using a low impedance peak/hold pintle style?

 

See here for reference: http://sdsefi.com/injectors.htm

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ITB for now to put some more miles on the turbo motor. I already have a custom turbo exhaust manifold. I need to decided on what intake manifold to go with i.e. N42 non EGR, custom Blake Machine jobber, stock TB, TWM, Q45. I just want to get the bugs worked out of the ITB as they will go on the 810 soon.

 

Joe, Very nice build going.

I'm not knocking your decision or your 810 needs, but why would step back and use a stock N42 (or modified) instead of building a plenum for the ITB setup you have to use with the Turbo conversion?

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