List your L28ET setup.

[kvansic162]

I'm glad to see this thread. I was pondering the thought of an RB motor so I could get 300 whp, but seeing the set ups with the L28 turbo with dyno figures has changed my mind.

[rossman]

Here is my setup. I haven't got everything together and the engine is still sitting on the stand so I don't have any dyno numbers yet...

 

Engine:

Rebello built 3.0 liter L6 turbo engine, 89mm 8.5:1 forged JE pistons, Forged rods, Offset ground l28 crank, custom ground turbo cam, Ported head with 1 mm over sized stainless intake valves

 

Turbo System:

Garrett GT35R turbo, .63 a/r T3 turbine, 3" v-band, Tial BOV, ARP Ultimate Internal Wastegate, AVO intercooler 21x8x3 core, 2.5†inlet/outlet

 

Intake:

Lonewolf Intake, 240sx 60mm throttle body

 

Engine Management:

Wolf V500 EMS running sequential fuel injection and ignition, J & S Electronics Vampire individual cylinder knock control

 

Fuel:

75 lb Delphi fuel injectors, Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump and FPR, Modified 240z gas tank with custom internal reservoir

 

Ignition:

Derek crank mounted EDIS wheel and Ford sensor, 83 zx distributor mounted CAS with an extra hole for ECU sync, 6 individual LS1 coils mounted on a Ron Tyler (RTz) bracket

 

Pictures, details and updates here.

[cygnusx1]

*83 turbo motor stock long block (150K miles)

Fidanza Flywheel

solid p90 head stock turbo cam w 5angle valve job.

very mild intake porting and exhaust manifold porting and matching

MSII V3.0 firmware v2.687

4bar dual MAP sensors

Wideband O2 LC1

42# (440cc/min) injectors high impedance (ford racing)

EDIS-6 Crank Triggered Ignition System

*TO4B/T3 SuperV trim

*2.5" DP and exhaust

Tuned to 15psi boost up to 6000rpm

*Intercooled

*60mm 240sx throttle body

 

* Items that were there on this dyno run -> Dynoed 260/300 at the wheels with factory stock head, stock injection, and BEFORE Megasquirt and EDIS.

[randy 77zt]

motor turbo block ,ported n42 head,isky turbo cam,diesel crank,9mm 810 rods bushed on top and bored 1mm.vg30dett pistons-they were free,440cc lucas injectors.megasquirt efi,chinese 240 sx intercooler,60-1 compressor with stock tubine housing machined for stage 5 turbine wheel,innovate wide band ,new fuel line with walbro pump and gm high pressure filter,240 mm flywheel with act street kevlar clutch,82 na trans(better ratios for road courses)3.7 lsd.currently changing to gm lsx coils and headed to the dyno.block was bored 1 mm for the vg pistons-makes 2960cc.all ic piping fabbed at home

[garvice]

Ok guys,

I have read this thread a couple of times and I am still perplexed.

I have the torque that you guys are getting but not the power.

 

I am getting similar torque figures to people here that have similar setups/boost levels to me, in some cases even larger torque figures.

I get

320ft-Lbs of torque at the wheels,

but I am only getting 185rwhp @ 5500rpm.

I get my 13psi just below 4000rpm and it stays relatively steady all the way till 6000rpm.

Dyno sheet here (third gear run in a 280zx 5spd)

http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q63/garvice/?action=view&current=IMAGE0001.jpg

 

Here is my setup.

L28e converted to an ET (F54 with dished pistons)

P90 head

GT30/40r Turbo

60mm 240sx Throttle Body

440cc Supra Injectors

Intercooled with 2.5" piping

2.5" to 3" Dump pipe (Changes dimension very quickly)

3" from DP back

LS1 Coils

Aftermarket computer tuned by a good tuner

Tuned at 13psi.

 

How are you guys getting such big Hp numbers?

Are you pushing your cars higher in the rpm range to get the big power numbers?

Mine drops off higher in the rpm which I assume is because it doesn't breathe well enough.

 

I guess I am just going to have to do the quarter mile and get a ET. That way I can compare real numbers with you guys.

[Bernardd]

How are you guys getting such big Hp numbers?

Are you pushing your cars higher in the rpm range to get the big power numbers?

Mine drops off higher in the rpm which I assume is because it doesn't breathe well enough.

 

I guess I am just going to have to do the quarter mile and get a ET. That way I can compare real numbers with you guys.

 

Dyno #'s mean nothing without a trap speed to back them up. Don't forget to weigh the car as well.

[softopz]

Dyno #'s mean nothing without a trap speed to back them up. Don't forget to weigh the car as well.

 

Exactly! And you got some mean a$$ torque. I have never seen that big of a difference between the two though. Maybe its a bad dyno?

[datman]

At what Rpm do you get that torque? mine is a similar setup and I get 316lb ft@4163rpm 275bhp @ the wheels@5750 rpm

 

something is not right!

[garvice]

That dyno sheet is showing maximum torque at 4700rpm (I think).

 

Yeah, I think the numbers are skewed, guess a quarter mile time doesn't lie. (Although it shows if your a crap driver or not). Either way, I have my z32 transmission for WHEN, not if, my 280zx 5spd breaks.

[e_racer1999]

garvice - Just a thought: I see you're in Australia. Is it possible the place where you got the car dynoed had it set up for kW instead of HP (even though the graph says HP)? 185 kW = ~248 WHP

[garvice]

Yeah possible, but I don't think so.

I reckon their dyno was just reading low. Still haven't had a chance to get it to the 1/4 mile (Never seem to have time). Once I do that I think I will know where I am at.

[Six_Shooter]

Your problem is bolded:

 

Dyno sheet here (third gear run in a 280zx 5spd)

 

Use 4th gear. 4th gear is either 1:1 or the closest to 1:1 on any tranny I have seen (with the exception of a couple home brewed gear swaps).

 

Using a lower gear will skew the numbers usually huge torque, but low HP as you have found.

 

You'll find that your torque will "go down", but your horse power will come up and both will coincide much better.

[garvice]

That seems to makes sense.

I'll just have to man up and go to the track and get some real figures.

[jc052685]

FYI - the gear you run in will have no effect on hp/tq numbers. Just like if you running a 3.23 vs a 4.10 diff. The dyno does the calculations of drum speed and engine rpm.

 

(rpm)(X)=drum speed

 

where x is the overall gear ratio, including tire size, diff and tranny.

 

Obviously the formula is incomplete because the drum diameter is missing from the equation.

[Six_Shooter]

FYI - the gear you run in will have no effect on hp/tq numbers. Just like if you running a 3.23 vs a 4.10 diff. The dyno does the calculations of drum speed and engine rpm.

 

(rpm)(X)=drum speed

 

where x is the overall gear ratio, including tire size, diff and tranny.

 

Obviously the formula is incomplete because the drum diameter is missing from the equation.

 

 

The gear you pull in most certainly does effect the torque and HP numbers that the Dyno will calculate.

 

The time it takes to go through the RPM range is usually quicker in a lower gear, and time is part of the equasion, not just your overly simplified equasion.

 

I have seen this first hand.

 

The dyno will calculate the HP and torque that is produced at the wheels, or drum, or more specifically the contact patch of the tire to the drum. So as gear ratios change or tire diameter changes, so do the numbers that the dyno will show. The engine torque produced and HP will remain the same at the crank, but what is shown at the wheel contact patch will change. If it didn't there wouldn't be a large selection of rear end gears or even transmission gear ratios, nor different tire diameters. If the gear that was used didn't change the numbers produced at the contact patch, then changing to a shorter tire would not produce quicker acceleration, all else being equal.

 

HP = torque/time. So the quicker the engine revs through a range, as it will in a lower gear and the larger the torque, again as will be shown in a lower gear, the "less" HP will be calculated. With more torque not as much HP is needed to do the same work, which is why time is a very important part of the equasion.

 

You might just be surprised how much torque is being applied at the rear wheels in first gear. In a lot of cases there is over 1000 Ft/lbs from your average everyday engine at that contact patch when in first gear. I've calculated over 3000 ft/lbs from some of my cars, with a known crank torque and then working through gear ratios.

[TimZ]

The gear you pull in most certainly does effect the torque and HP numbers that the Dyno will calculate.

 

The time it takes to go through the RPM range is usually quicker in a lower gear, and time is part of the equasion, not just your overly simplified equasion.

 

Sorry, but not quite. An inertia dyno only looks at the acceleration of the drum to calculate the horsepower at the tire/drum interface. Technically this is measuring the torque at the wheels, but the more interesting number is the resulting horsepower. The hp number calculated here is independent of what gear the trans is in. In lower gears the time it takes to run the engine through an rpm range is less, but so is the change in speed at the drum (not coincidentally by the same amount).

 

Engine torque is then calculated using the measured engine rpm and the formula

 

torque(lb-ft) = 5252 * horsepower/rpm

 

So, the horsepower and torque numbers generated by the dyno should be independent of what gear was used.

 

Mostly.

 

That said, there are differences that will show up that are dependent on the gear. For instance,

 

• The drivetrain loss increases in lower gears.
  
• Conversely, if you are turbocharged/supercharged, the longer pulls in higher gears allows the intake air temps to climb higher during the pull due to heat soak in the intercooler.
  
• The quicker pulls in lower gears will have fewer samples to calculate acceleration from and will tend to give noisier results (acceleration calculations are noisy by nature, so it helps not to make it worse if you don't have to).
  

[jc052685]

^^^Pretty much what I was trying to say but I am far to lazy and not nearly as good at putting thoughts to words. Thanks Tim!

[HowlerMonkey]

4th gear usually is straight through on most manuals and doesn't involve the countershaft so you get less drivetrain loss.

[garvice]

Well, I finally made it to the drag racers. Best I could get was a 14.5 second quarter.

Bit disappointed as I thought it had a 13 second in it. Was dropping the clutch at about 3500rpm and was changing a little too late (Changing around 6000, could feel the power dropping off above 5500). So might be able to drop a few tenths off that with a bit of practice, but still not quite what I was hoping for.

R/T - 0.245

60 - 2.386

1/8 - 9.534 @ 77.78

1/4 - 14.596 @ 99.11

[Project Z]

My set up is not done yet but here it is:

 

Engine: L28ET with J.E. Pistons, Eagle Forged Rods, Race Rod Bearings, Crane valves, Comp Cam, Comp Timing set, HKS 2mm Head Gasket, ARP Head Bolts, Euro Damper, Port and polished Head, Bosch Alternator, MSA Billet Alumimum Alternator Adjustment Arm, High Capacity Oil Pump, and all new Gaskets

 

Turbo System:

Garrett T3T4 Hybrid Turbo, Custom Top Mount Turbo Manifold, Tial BOV, Internal Wastegate, AVO intercooler 21x8x3 core, 2.5†inlet/outlet, and Custom Turbo 3 inch Downpipe with custom 3 inch piping all the way to the exhaust (Magnaflow Turbo exhaust?).

 

Intake:

240sx 60mm throttle body and Port matched Intake Manifold

 

Engine Management: L28ET ECU, Greddy E-Manage Ultimate, LC1 wideband O2 sensor and controller, and 240SX Map sensor.

 

 

Fuel: 13 gal. Fuel Cell, Walbro 255LPH fuel pump (haven't bought one yet), 450cc Injectors, Hardwired CSI to work as a 7th Injector, Cold Fusion's Billet Fuel Rail (haven't bought one yet)

 

 

Ignition: Stock distributor, NGK Platinum Spark Plugs and Wires, and MSD Coil.

 

HP: Well the engine is already complete but I still need a few little parts before she can run. After the engine gets properly broken in, I will get the car dynoed. I'm hoping I can get 400HP at the crank (wishful thinking right?).