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DC Water Jet's 202mph Z-Car


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#21 Guest_Widebodys30_*

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 08:54 PM

I think it's awesome that the "Basic, bare bones" shape of the Z is more aerodynamic that that hideous G-nose everyone froths at the mouth over.
Make a Z look like a "wish I was" bastard son of a Ferrari, IMO.

And here's the concrete proof. AWESOME.

Gotta love "Shark nose" styling, regardless of make.

Awesome work, awesome car.

#22 LVSALT

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 09:13 PM

Widebody, In our class from the firewall foward we can do anything we want as far as shape and streamlining. We can even enclose the front wheels,which would be to our advantage. We chose to try to keep our car looking as much like a Z as we could.

#23 Guest_Widebodys30_*

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 10:50 PM

That's very cool. And I respect your efforts.
Still looks like a 240Z to me.

And only a step or two from a great funny car dragster body.

I have always wanted to be involved in the construction of a Lakes car.

Nice work.

#24 Daeron

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 02:40 AM

I think it's awesome that the "Basic, bare bones" shape of the Z is more aerodynamic that that hideous G-nose everyone froths at the mouth over.
Make a Z look like a "wish I was" bastard son of a Ferrari, IMO.

And here's the concrete proof. AWESOME.

Gotta love "Shark nose" styling, regardless of make.

Awesome work, awesome car.


okay, aerodynamically, this car looks absolutely nothing like a bare bones stock Z. This car is a flat WALL in the front:
http://forums.hybrid...13&d=1223650313

The G-nose is far superior to the stock USDM shape of the front of the car for one large reason: it lets MUCH less air under the hood of the car and diverts much more air around it. this front end does the same thing, but appears to divert more air to the sides as opposed to underneath, when compared to the G-nose. However, I would say that trying to decide "which is better" is something that guessing about is foolish, so I won't say (and don't have an opinion on) which might be "better;" this bonneville front end or a G-nose based design..

..but to have this car used as a justification for a statement like "concrete proof" that "the 'basic, bare bones' shape of the Z-car is more aerodynamic than the G-nose" is just wrong. It isn't the "bare bones shape" part I have a problem with; I see how you stretched that bit and I can cope with that.. it is the "more aerodynamic" part of your statement. Aerodynamics isn't a "more/less" situation, its just different. You don't always WANT to make all the air go around your car instead of underneath it, but I am not qualified to make any more correction or further explanation than that.
Fusible Links blow.

1-5-3-6-2-4, counter-clockwise from 9 o'clock when viewing from driver side fender

There's something about a white Nissan......
Wisdom is knowing how much you do not know.
"Indeed, if fish had fish-lore, and Wise-fish, it is probable that the business of anglers would be little hindered." -JRR Tolkien

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#25 johnc

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 08:05 AM

And here's the concrete proof. AWESOME.


Uuuuuhhh... no.
----- John Coffey, Fabricator at Benton Performance, LLC

#26 LVSALT

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 07:21 PM

As far as Aerodynamics on the DCWATERJET Z, we are not aero engineers nor do we pretend to be, there are far smarter people then us on this subject. Probably on this forum. We tried to keep the air from getting in the engine compartment and from going underneath the car. This is an educated guess from running THIS car. We learn every time we run the car. In the future we would still like to put a full bellypan on the car as we think this would help our aero situation also.We are at speeds where not many Z's have been. One guy from Arizona ran a Z with a choped top and stretched longer than ours with a twin turbo chevy ran in the 260mph range about ten years ago. I have not seen the car since. It was green and to me it was hard to tell it was a Z.

#27 LVSALT

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 07:24 PM

just looked in the Bonneville rule book, not 100% sure but i believe this is the car.

Donnie Stringfellow - 08/94 - 262.081 mph C/BFCC

#28 Tony D

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 10:11 AM

Preaching to the choir here about weight and spoiler angle! At El Mirage the little spoiler cut 3mph at only 140. Imagine the usless drag at 200+ Car #220, F/PRO...

Stringfellow stretched the cowl some ridiculous amount in front of the A-Pillar, that indeed is the car.
There's a car under construction in Whittier CA (Pike's) now with a five foot stretch in front of the cowl, and he's running a G-Nose. I think his queries with the rules committee put the protest on #220 to bed two years ago.

Widebody is a bit off the mark with the commentary, Daeron pretty much covered it. I'm with John C in his comment on the remarks...

#29 LVSALT

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 08:03 PM

Hi Tony
can you explain to me the protest on #220 that you mentioned?

#30 LVSALT

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 08:53 PM

is there a picture of #220 available to view?

#31 260DET

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 10:24 PM

Have to say after many years experience that this site is the most informed, open and helpful site of all I've experienced. Blokes here actually build and race Zeds and study all their facets, many in extraordinary and exhaustive detail.

There, I've said it :)

#32 johnc

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 08:11 AM

There seems to be a handful of folks, say, 5 or so, who have nothing better to do than sit at the computer all day, policing this site,


Well, since I'm an Admin here, I do spend a lot of time policing this site and now you've gotten my attention. Unfortunately you'll find a lot of people who don't agree with you here so you need to toughen up and listen yourself. There are two particular people in this thread who have land speed records or are crew on teams that have set land speed records. Listen to them because they know far more then you about this particular subject.

If you have a lot of knowledge and expertise, please share it. If you're just guessing at things and relying on your reputation to convince people of your arguments, you've come to the wrong place.
----- John Coffey, Fabricator at Benton Performance, LLC

#33 dr_hunt

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 11:32 AM

Take a close look at the above sentences closely. Especially the red part, and the following sentence. Apparently, this must only apply to those who agree with you.

There seems to be a handful of folks, say, 5 or so, who have nothing better to do than sit at the computer all day, policing this site, and berating, insulting and belittling anyone who might actually disagree with the all wise Z god image they like to beat everyone over the head with. I could get into analytical psychological theories on why they must feel it's so necessary to do so, but I won't bother. It's rather amusing to watch, however.

All I can say is the "The Wise know when to listen", and you don't learn crap jumping at every little chance to tell others how dumb they are, and scream at them "You are wrong", because they don't see things the way the site police do. Unless of course, they happen to be one of the many groupies, or part of the "expert" crowd.

I could beat you over the head with my accomplishments and qualifications, but I don't feel the need to. I know what I have done, and have nothing to prove to anyone here.
I will point out, however, my profile pic IS me, and aviation sciences and circles are, ahem, different than a obsolete 30 year old+ imported automobile that's heyday is 20 years past. And, if you don't have a degree in fluid dynamics, don't theorize to me, TY.

My advice to those who might take offense to the above statements and opinions, shut the 'puter off every once in a while.



I think the car in question demonstrates by example that it works as it is built. To conjure what would work and what would not work is called bench racing at best, since the proof is in the pudding. The car is quite an accomplishment by the folks behind it whether they are "qualified" or not in anyones opinion. Never heard of a degree in Fluid dynamics either. I used to teach fluid dynamics at NM State University for 2 years, I have a BS and MS in Engineering and a minor in Math but I am not "qualified" either. Aerodynamics is a rather specialized field that historically has developed from actual test results more so than mathmatical theorization.

Your post is off topic and basically a rant of your own and it violates the rules. I suggest you post on topic or take your complaints offline in the future where they can be discussed further. Thanks.

Doc
SEZ 1.36 60', 9.84 @ 132.62 through mufflers.
Alb. National Dragway 9.90 @ 136.45 all motor.


I think I have just the right amount of excessive HP!! But I guess there is always room for more!

#34 thehelix112

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 11:45 AM

LVSALT,

Have you perused the results of the wind tunnel tests? The main thing that stood out to me was that the primary sources of both drag and front end lift are the front wheel wells, and the engine bay (I believe in that order but CBF double checking).

It would be interesting to vent both these sections if allowed by the rules next time out and see what happens? Coz you know, I'm sure you have nothing else to do. ;) (j/k).

Dave

USA Daily:  2014 GT-R Black Edition, stock.

USA Dail..err..Project: 1978 280Z, minor suspension upgrades, VK56DE conversion in progress. - SOLD
AUS Race Car: 1973 240Z, L28ET, Autronic, GT35R. - For Sale
AUS Project: 1972 1600, 3200km old S15 SR20DET, ground up rebuild. - For Sale


#35 Challenger

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 11:50 AM

Hi Tony
can you explain to me the protest on #220 that you mentioned?


I think it was something to do with whether or not the gnose was an original option for their car... Is this correct Tony?
Derek
78 280z Dark Shadow Grey 2+2: L28et, MS2, HX35W, FMIC, Tial WG, Tokicos, Rear Disks, bla, bla, bla.
Posted Image

#36 Tony D

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 01:48 PM

is there a picture of #220 available to view?


:mrgreen:

"On the Cover of the 2000 Rule Book"

:mrgreen:

(Actuating schrader valve near ear and deflating head...):icon45:

And Challenger is correct, the #929 Red Cosworth Vega in G/PRO protested us on 'production part' grounds. That's why the 2008 rule book says you have to be an SCTA-BNI member to lodge a protest or request a rule clarification...wasted a year with that nonsense. Now since they upped and bumped the record a couple of MPH, likely we will have to use a real E30 or E31 head instead of the E88 from the L28 we had on there. I mean, hell we were making 205 to the rear wheels with something like 10 or maybe 11:1 compression. You can only pop so much dome on a 2-liter piston into a 2.8 liter combustion chamber! We ran 14.5:1 in the L28, and really we should have been running 14.75 or 15:1 in the smaller engine. Along with a much more radical cam... but cheapskates we are, we jsut cut the block and put the L28 head on the 2 liter 'to see what it would do'---About 141 at El Mirage from initial testing before we got shut down with the protest. That nixed the Salt for that year. Got protested up there and had a record rescinded once before, so we weren't going all that way until the item was solidly resolved. Now that I have my own trailer and tow rig, it makes doing the events easier as we arent dependent on just one guys' work schedule. But I digress...

"Always wanting to build a lakes car" and actually doing it are two very different things indeed! Spend some time with the nev-r-dull and polish the tailfeathers some more on that Eagle. I don't know what set that off, but I'm glad it's gone.

#37 LVSALT

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 02:46 PM

thehelix112
our wheel wells are not vented, I have driven the car the last two years and the frontend dosent seem to be a problem. above 210mph (gps reading in car) the backend moves around. we have large wheel tubs in the back as the car was going to be a drag car when we first made it. This is one of the things we are changing for 09, I am petty confident we are getting a lot of lift from the wheel tubs.
Tony or someone can you post a pic of #220 I dont have a 2000 rulebook?
I saw a pic of a blue Z no lettering and what i think is a G-nose. I could not read the number on the car. is this #220?

oh yeah, Our Z has been stretched 15" has a full tube frame.the nose of the car has NO engineering involved in the design, it is just something we made to try and keep the car looking as close to a Z as we could and keep air out of the engine bay, we COULD NOT run in a production class.

#38 thehelix112

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 05:22 PM

Compare tests #27 and #28 here http://forums.hybrid...ad.php?t=121877

The changes were untaping the wheel well vents, and covering a lot of frontal area (yes, two variables unfortunately so granted the wheel well vents cannot be solely responsible), but drag went from 95hp to 88hp @ 120mph. Seems worth exploring to me.

Dave

USA Daily:  2014 GT-R Black Edition, stock.

USA Dail..err..Project: 1978 280Z, minor suspension upgrades, VK56DE conversion in progress. - SOLD
AUS Race Car: 1973 240Z, L28ET, Autronic, GT35R. - For Sale
AUS Project: 1972 1600, 3200km old S15 SR20DET, ground up rebuild. - For Sale


#39 Tony D

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 10:48 AM

Until SCTA changed their website recently you could find shots of us at the World Finals, in 2000, 2001.
It's a Silver 280Z 2+2, with Red Sides and Blue Accents. Double Limo-Tint on the windows side and back with Moons.

Shoot me a PM and I can send you some shots to your email account....Oh, waitaminit! I just remembered these online:
Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Everybody seems to like the last one best...

D'jya think the trailer, residing and bought in SoCal has been to the salt a couple of times? LOL

#40 jgkurz

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 12:30 PM

Until SCTA changed their website recently you could find shots of us at the World Finals, in 2000, 2001.
It's a Silver 280Z 2+2, with Red Sides and Blue Accents. Double Limo-Tint on the windows side and back with Moons.

Shoot me a PM and I can send you some shots to your email account....Oh, waitaminit! I just remembered these online:


Posted Image



Everybody seems to like the last one best...

D'jya think the trailer, residing and bought in SoCal has been to the salt a couple of times? LOL


Great pics Tony. What's the tube coming out of the rear bumper? That can't be the exhaust or is it????




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