MoNkEyT88 Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 I'm glad you found what works for you. I really liked the ergonomics of the Sig's and I almost bought a 226. Ended up getting a suppressor though. And then later on I got the Sig Mosquito, which isn't reliable, but it is very cool, and has the same ergo's as the big brother. Someone asked about the 1911 being SA or DA. I believe all 1911's are single action, by design. My Springfield Armory 1911 has a very nice trigger. It spoils me when I go to shoot other pistols. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 I ordered up the P226 today. I was calling around and about the best price I found was $750. The most expensive was the range which wanted $999.99. Then I called one place and he said he could order a factory refurbished police gun. I had heard about these previously; apparently Sig goes through them with a fine tooth comb and they're essentially new guns. The price was $619, about $100 more than the best deal I'd found locally on the XD. So I decided to go for it. At the rate I've been shooting lately I don't think I'd even break in a new one for a couple years. I can go pick it up on the 18th. Also going to get a CCW permit, just because I found out it's so easy in WA state. Clean police record, $55 and some paperwork, and that's it. Thinking now about some other barrels. I know the .357 Sig barrel drops right in, there are also 9mm conversion barrels, and .22 conversions with a new slide. I might start with the 9mm just for the 15 rd capacity. Then maybe the .357. .22 might be fun, but I think I'll hold off for the moment. I already have a .22 pistol. Starting to think about gun safes vs gun cabinets too. One thing I've noticed is that the safes start at about 700 lbs. That would be a real bitch to get home and set up. I can only assume that if you buy a safe delivery is included... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 I have a fire proof filing cabinet for our valuables and the pistol (I'm down to one) for storage when we're on travel and I'm not carrying it. If you need to store long rifles, That's another issue, and a gun safe would be a smart move. Mike Starting to think about gun safes vs gun cabinets too. One thing I've noticed is that the safes start at about 700 lbs. That would be a real bitch to get home and set up. I can only assume that if you buy a safe delivery is included... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Starting to think about gun safes vs gun cabinets too. One thing I've noticed is that the safes start at about 700 lbs. That would be a real bitch to get home and set up. I can only assume that if you buy a safe delivery is included... I have 2 gun safes, I bought both and yes they included delivery and setup, mine are bolted to the floor. Check though cause often they post a cheap price and delivery and setup is extra. They are a good idea cause you can store all your valuables and irreplacable papers in them too on the shelves. Fireproof rating is a good idea also and some cheap ones don't have them. I got the extra upgraded fire rating when I got mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 I have 2 gun safes, I bought both and yes they included delivery and setup, mine are bolted to the floor. Check though cause often they post a cheap price and delivery and setup is extra. They are a good idea cause you can store all your valuables and irreplacable papers in them too on the shelves. Fireproof rating is a good idea also and some cheap ones don't have them. I got the extra upgraded fire rating when I got mine. I had heard that the fireproofing was essentially a liner that has water trapped in it. Not like a water balloon, but like a dense sponge like material, and that when using the fire proofing stuff you need a dehumidifier in the safe to keep the guns from rusting. Is that true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 I got into a discussion on Shotguns for home defense with an 'uninitiated' person with small children around the house. He was set that he needed a 9mm because that is what all his buddies from Compton told him he wanted because he had '13 shots'. 1) Shotgun, 1ea, 12Ga, OO Buck. Pull the triger, and 18 .36 vcaliber projectiles go downrange. Just slightly smaller than 9mm. 2) You don't need to be 'spot on' with the aim in a high pressure situation. 3) The barrel is long enough, and the thing is heavy enough that a 3 year old will not pick it up, point it at his own face, and be able to pull the trigger. 4) If you store it with nothing in the chamber, just the sound will send anybody entering your house running. Everybody knows that sound of a pump-gun. "I have a gun 'CLICK/SCHLLLLLACK/CARRACK' get out now or I'll ventilate you!" rarely would get beyond the noise... I like 45ACP. Call me old fashioned, but it was designed to knock down drug crazed Phillipinos during the Insurrection almost a century ago, and it works. The only reason we went to 9mm was because 'everybody else jumped off the bridge'...as tactical pistol re-evolved, the came back to where they were almost a century before. Slow, BIG bullet to expend all it's energy in a shallow cavity and knock something down. Having to run with an empty chamber kind of sucks, and the double/single setup makes for that first shot without much ado. Especially if you don't have both hands free to operate the slide. The nice thing about a Tec9 was you could bang the bolt against the edge of a table to cock it... And since owning an MP5 with all the tactical goodies is Verboten in CA...I'm stuck with my Police Surplus Remington 870 Pump, and the 45ACP Colt. I liked my bro-in-laws Ruger P89 (?) kind of a flippy nose on it, but easy to bring onto target. The S&W in the same caliber I felt was much more stable. With a larger round, I'd go with stability. Since doublestacked mags of high capacity went away, the width of the grip isn't much of an issue. Though I have big hands and liked the beefier handgrips. As I tell my wife when she asks the same question as above: "It's not about need, honey. I want one, and because I can, I will!" No more justification for anything including cars, polygamist sect membership, or firearms need be given! **** On gun safes, it wasn't until I met up with one of our distributors in Salt Lake City and saw the 'Fort Knox' gun safe brochure that I had even considered storing other items in there! I actually have a gun safe with nothing gun related in it. (well...) Computer Discs, financial records, credit cards we aren't using, second set of I.D. for the run to the border when end of times comes...you know, the essentials. The firearms are in a less expensive safe and they are there alone. ACtually the ammunition is in the Fort Knox, and the stuff that shoots it is in another. I had to beef up the joists in my house to keep it from creaking and slightly sagging where I wanted to put it. I wish I had a basement so I could place it on a nice concrete slab with proper anchor bolts. But I don't think it's going anywhere. But back to fireproofing, the Fort Knox is a fire brick like substance, same refractory they use in furnace linings. What it does it prevent the heat of a house fire from transferring to the interior. It has a time rating, as I recall mine withstands 3000F for 45 minutes without the interior exceeding 180F. Which means plastic survives, most everything that wouldn't be damaged sitting on your dashboard would be safe in there. I doubt my house would take 45 minutes to burn, so I figure I'm safe. After that point, it raises linerlay, so at 50 minutes you are at like 250, 60 minutes 350, etc... You can't get ridiculous about what it will achieve, but when you look at what the little fire safes proviude compared to what the Fort Knox Gun Safe provides, I was sold. $2100 later, and untold gallons of company-paid gsaloine (and about 1500 miles on the shop truck) and it was mine. Sure, there was a service call in SLC. That's why I drove. That's it! Big thing is most fire safes are trying to keep the contents below the kindling temperature of paper (451F), whereas gunsafes are trying to keep ammunition from cooking-off, and for that, they want a BIG margin of safety. The dehumidifier kit is simply a light bulb in the bottom to keep air moving through the interior. Diurnal variation can cause condensation, and THAT will rust your metal objects. SImply have it warm enough to be non-condensing and you won't have an issue. It, from what I know, is not from the refractory material. It's a closed room, almost airtight. If you open it on a humid day, and close it...as the temperature drops, it condenses. It's a matter of natural laws. A Dehumidifer/Desiccant bag will work, but it's finite life. How do you know when it's 'bad'? The dehumidifier/light kit just does a similar function through temperature elevation. Who wants to stick their sack in an over at 350 degrees for 3 hours every couple of months when you can just leave a 25W bulb on the bottom shelf burning. Hot air rises to the top of the safe, cools, sinks to the bottom, is reheated... Nice airflow pattern, and warm enough to 'desiccate' anything 'wet' that may have gone into the 'sealed environment' unintentionally (like that moist gunsock on the rifle from a day in the field...) There is actually (gawd I'm admitting it) a nice technical paper online about fragmentation and fire prevention of small arms caches stored in Conex Boxes that was pretty interesting. Something about loading 350# of C4 into a container filled with explosives and small arms ammunition, and then setting it off in next to other containers to 'see what would propogate'... When you got time on your hands, you read. Alright? I had time. I read! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 But back to fireproofing, the Fort Knox is a fire brick like substance, same refractory they use in furnace linings. What it does it prevent the heat of a house fire from transferring to the interior. It has a time rating, as I recall mine withstands 3000F for 45 minutes without the interior exceeding 180F. Which means plastic survives, most everything that wouldn't be damaged sitting on your dashboard would be safe in there. I doubt my house would take 45 minutes to burn, so I figure I'm safe. What he said. Yes it is a refractory lining like a furnace has. No dehumidifier necessary in my climate but they make a plug in model (there is a hole in the floor of most gun safes) that you run the cord through to plug in. Good idea up where your at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoNkEyT88 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I just threw away a magazine that had refurbished police use (hahaha or not use, holster wear) 226's for like under $299. If I find it I'll try to post a link. Okay, they're $269 from AimSurplus. I don't see anything about them on their website, but they had an ad in their mail pamphlet. I may inquire to my local FFL about having one shipped there.. Pretty good price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 Damn! That would be a good price. Checked their site too, no luck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I'm going to blame you Mortensen! My wife is going to carp and moan about me getting another firesomething... But just talking about it makes me go 'I haven't bought one in a while...' And printing my logic behind buying one reminded me there's not a real compelling reason not to right now! I mean, I don't want to spend ALL my money on the Z's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 I'm going to blame you Mortensen! Hey, I'm here to help! I'm trying not to feel too dejected about this $279 price... I did some more checking online and I'm getting the impression that the quality of these refurbished guns varies a bit. I'm hoping that this means that I'm not going to get screwed on my gun for $619. I think the guy I bought it from called it a #1 grade, but I guess I didn't really make the connection before that maybe there are other grades out there at potentially cheaper prices. I think the key here is going to be to inspect the gun really closely when it comes in and reject it if it isn't up to snuff. Here is a site that lists a couple of Sig refurbished guns for different prices: http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search/Category/628/Sig-Sauer-Pistols.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Here's a summary of what I was taught about home defense by a number of police officers, firearms trainers, and district attorneys: 1. Have a safe place that everyone can get to quickly and with a minimum amount of travel throughout the house. It should have only one entry and some sort of barrier to hide behind and offer some protection (a mattress works). 2. That safe place needs a charged cell phone (our cell phone chargers are in our safe place) and a plugged in landline. 3. The safe place needs to be dark and you should have a very bright flashlight that can be shined at the one entry. 4. The safe place should also have a Freon air horn or other load noisemaker. You want to be able to wake the neighbors. 5. That safe place should also have a gun of some kind if the family is OK with it. If someone breaks in, get the whole family into the safe place. Have one person call 911. Set the flashlight up so it illuminates the entry but is not being held by someone. You want to kill the intruder's night vision and make it hard to see into the safe place. Preferably, its off to one side so if the intruder shoots at the light, its not endangering anyone. Shout to the intruder that the police and the neighbors are coming. Blast the air horn. Setup with the gun and get ready in case the intruder comes through the entry. "Being a badass and walking through the house racking your shotgun will generally get you dead with an unfired shotgun lying next to you." - Sgt. Lou Castillo, LAPD SWAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 11, 2008 Author Share Posted November 11, 2008 From Aim Surplus: We have Sig 226 CPO guns @$499.95 (certified Pre Owned) they are redone andnice Then we have USED sig P225 @$269.95 but are out for a month on those So there you go. Since I've already got mine ordered and you have to pay a fee for the transfer through an FFL here, I probably really lost out on $50-75. I'm not going to go through the hassle of returning the one I got and getting one from these guys, assuming again that the gun checks out in good condition. The 225 is a smaller version of the P226 with 8+1 capacity in 9mm for anyone interested... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest remos111 Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 I have ruger 9mm bought it used. My wife and I have put about 2000 rounds through this gun without on problem. With the price of Ammo you should consider nothing bigger then a 9mm if you plan on target shooting with it ammo has jumped about 35% in the last few months. If you are looking for straight out knock down power a larger caliber Ruger. Also Taurus has improved thier quality 10 fold in the last ten years and you can buy some inexpensive cannons from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 11, 2008 Author Share Posted November 11, 2008 I have ruger 9mm bought it used. My wife and I have put about 2000 rounds through this gun without on problem. With the price of Ammo you should consider nothing bigger then a 9mm if you plan on target shooting with it ammo has jumped about 35% in the last few months. If you are looking for straight out knock down power a larger caliber Ruger. Also Taurus has improved thier quality 10 fold in the last ten years and you can buy some inexpensive cannons from them. I actually already sprung for the 9mm Bar-Sto conversion barrel. It was $200. So I'll need to get a couple 9mm magazines, and I'll be good to go. After looking at ammo prices I think that was the right thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 It's worked for me in the past, so with all due respect to Sgt Castillo, I'll stick with what's worked in the past for me... And nobody said anything about walking around the house. That will get you dead sure as crossing the third rail to take a nap on the Tube... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~KnuckleDuster~ Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 Im going to the range tonight. Ill take a pic of my grouping with the xd for all you non believers You can't bash the XD because it just didn't shoot as accurate as you thought. Me being professionally trained in the art of marksmanship and working on guns for a living, I know that the xd is a reliable, accurate gun. The xdm on the other hand I have no clue, the accuracy issue might have been due to a lack of break in period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravRMK Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Im going to the range tonight. Ill take a pic of my grouping with the xd for all you non believers You can't bash the XD because it just didn't shoot as accurate as you thought. Me being professionally trained in the art of marksmanship and working on guns for a living, I know that the xd is a reliable, accurate gun. The xdm on the other hand I have no clue, the accuracy issue might have been due to a lack of break in period. Or the amo. I know my XD did not like the inexpensive factory reloaded amo. I reload all of mine, and it likes the 135gr nosler holow points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-TARD Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Good pick on the Sig P-226. Sig and HK are my favorite non-1911 style pistols. I prefer the ergonomics and controls of the HK, but the Sig has a better trigger. had I seen this thread earlier, I would have suggested the FN USA FNP-40 also: http://www.snipercountrypx.com/showproduct.aspx?productid=3442 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 capt_furious: Yes it is just a slide/barrel/magazine swap. Of course - you'll want to make sure you get the large frame pistol, so yoiu can get ALL the calibers. The small frame (I don't think they make them any more) are good for 9mm, 40S&W, .22 and one or two others I think... When I got my pistols, they were so inexpensive that I forewent the conversion kit entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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