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260Z + RB25DET S2 motor = badazz 260ZR and some ?'s

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I had the guys at school dyno the car again with the new stuff listed above.

 

264HP peak

215torque during the same run... I made 236ft/lbs on an earlier run with 261hp.

 

I bought the Genuine Greddy intake for the car and sold the knockoff Freddy intake. Im going to get that on soon. Im going to start saving for a power FC with the boost controller solenoid next. Early next year hopefully.

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4/29/10 UPDATE

 

Stepping it up

 

I had some Rain Water issues. The wind shield gasket started to leak and let water drain onto my harness on the passenger side. I had the window wipers go cookoo and then something strange happened and the harness fried out. One of the power wires down on the fuse box gave up the smoke inside.

 

I spent a few months rebuilding the whole engine bay and dash harness. I took the time to go through and make my harness look like a factory Nissan harness. That is all finished in time for me to do some more electrical work now.

 

Im finally installing the GReddy intake manifold.

I purchased the APEXi Power FC, FC Datalogit, and an Innovate Motor Sports LC-1 wideband O2 as well. Im busy paying other bills right now and forced to thin out my extra parts(even the ones I want to keep) so my funds are ~zilch. When things level out I still want to install the APEXi PFC boost controller(~$300) and something else very important.

 

Take a look at my progress. See if you can spot the thing that is still in the pictures that needs to be upgraded... HINT: Its not any of the missing parts.

 

P1030938 1.JPG

 

P1030939 1.JPG

 

P1030942 1.JPG

 

P1040213 1.JPG

 

P1040214 1.JPG

 

Spot it?

 

 

 

It has been a good part until now. For running around this past year and a half it has got the job done even in really bad heat. If your stock I still stand by this debated part. Im stepping it up and this will be the next replaced part. Still havent figured it out? how about another hint: Im going with a Champion unit.

 

 

I see more dyno runs in my future.

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-GReddy intake manifold NEW $530 shipped!!! got a deal!!!

-APEXi Power FC & Datalogit $700 shipped

-Cobalt boost guage $67 shipped

-wideband LC-1 Innovate $200 shipped

 

I will have other misc parts for the intake swap and such shortly.

 

 

 

Ray

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after seeing the 1971 in this thread http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php?/topic/75973-my-71-240z-w-rb25det-almost-ready/

I set out to copy the throttle body install. Hiding the throttle cable underneath just seems like a brilliant idea. The only thing down there is the lower radiator hose and the thermostat housing.

 

here is my mock up.

P1040215.JPG

P1040216.JPG

P1040217.JPG

 

I routed the throttle cable under the intake next to the block and out just above the thermostate housing. Im going to make a cable mount that attaches to the stud under the upper radiator hose on the head that mounts the intake.

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Greddy Intake manifold install:

 

Why is this stupid manifold so tricky to install? It seams so straight forward. And yet I have hit several stumbling blocks. I managed to re-route all the coolant and idle air control hoses. I re-routed the wire harness under the manifold with the throttle cable and a few of the vacuum/pcv hoses. It took some Finagling to route it under the manifold cleanly and so that it didnt snag on the oil cooler or other lines down there. I can still change the oil filter and I think that is what counts.

 

Anyway the biggest snag I hit was the TPS sensor. If you have read through this entire thread then you know I have an Series 2 engine setup. My TPS is the newer style. I happen to have an S1 style TPS around, an extra S2 TPS, and the TPS for a 89 KA24e. I have the FSM for my a 94 ECR33 which is the exact year my engine is from.

I have no idea what you guys are doing with your TPS installs. Both my S2 sensors check out according to the FSM with FLYING COLORS. They are to the specs accurate. According to the FSM they are to be back probed with ignition on engine off and they have voltage readings to be measured.

Here is where it gets tricky. I have as most other assumed that the difference between the S1 and S2 setups was the ignition and maybe some slight mapping in the programming. Well the 1 S1 TPS I have doesnt correlate well with the S2. Remember that the S2 only uses the TPS on the sensor. The S1 uses both the sensor and the switch. Well I busted out my meter and took some measurements.

 

I drew up some pictures of the connectors which I will not share here, but I was able to reference the 2 styles of connectors that way. For comparison I bench tested the 4 tps sensors using my meter.

For your purposes I will compare them with a 1 , 2 , and 3 for each respective pin.

 

S2

1-2 idle 5.25kΩ

1-2 wot 136.3Ω

2-3 idle 257Ω

2-3 wot 532kΩ

1-3 total 5.28kΩ

 

S2

1-2 idle 5.02kΩ

1-2 wot 70Ω

2-3 idle 290Ω

2-3 wot 5.16kΩ

1-3 total 5.09kΩ

 

S1

1-2 idle 290Ω

1-2 wot 9.55kΩ

2-3 idle 9.54Ω

2-3 wot 290Ω

1-3 total 9.44kΩ

 

KA24e

1-2 idle 8.83kΩ

1-2 wot 124Ω

2-3 idle 324.4Ω

2-3 wot 8.90kΩ

1-3 total 8.76kΩ

 

Just in case you havent realized yet what the problem is: The S1 and S2 style TPS will not swap back in forth on their respective throttle body mounts. So if your planning on putting a Greddy intake onto your S2 setup and you want to install the 90mm Nissan throttle body from the famed Infiniti Q45 your going to either A. swap on the Infiniti or other random early style Nissan TPS and call it good or B do what Im doing ???

 

I have seen the 96 Q45 non TCS TB and I guess its a direct replacement for the S2 throttle body. So Im going to now be searching for one of those. The other TPS sensors will not that I can see make suitable replacements.

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I have the final Answer for S2 RB25DET owners and Q45 throttle body installs.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Q45-Throttle-Body-Install-t308397.html&pid=5089668&mode=threaded&start=20#entry5089668

 

The 96 Infiniti Q45 Throttle body has the corresponding S2 TPS.

 

 

On another note:

 

APEXi 415-A001 Boost Controller Kit:

For those of us with the APEXi Power FC the 415-A001 kit is the add on kit we can get to control our boost level. Whats in this kit?

Apexi_415-A013_1_13522_13523_13524_13525_13526_13527_13528_13529_13530.jpg

hmm... Well I see a wire harness, a Denso 3.5 BAR MAP sensor, a stepper motor, and some bits and pieces.

Isnt that the very same Denso MAP sensor and stepper motor(aka boost valve) that is used in the APEXi AVC-R stand alone boost controller??? Why yes I believe it is! Im pretty sure the AVC-R is readily available used and new here in the US. I have found the replacement boost valve and sensor online for just over $100 for both. So then why is the kit 415-A001 listed for no less than $300 new anywhere? Im not really sure... In fact I find it rather sad that used kits are listed for $300-$600 depending where in the world they are. At least you can find the old AVC-R kit in good condition for under $200. Im seriously considering buying the sensor and valve or the AVC-R and searching out the connectors needed to make my own harness. It really can be any worse than wiring the RB into a 260Z.

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I have the final Answer for S2 RB25DET owners and Q45 throttle body installs.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Q45-Throttle-Body-Install-t308397.html&pid=5089668&mode=threaded&start=20#entry5089668

 

The 96 Infiniti Q45 Throttle body has the corresponding S2 TPS.

 

 

On another note:

 

APEXi 415-A001 Boost Controller Kit:

For those of us with the APEXi Power FC the 415-A001 kit is the add on kit we can get to control our boost level. Whats in this kit?

Apexi_415-A013_1_13522_13523_13524_13525_13526_13527_13528_13529_13530.jpg

hmm... Well I see a wire harness, a Denso 3.5 BAR MAP sensor, a stepper motor, and some bits and pieces.

Isnt that the very same Denso MAP sensor and stepper motor(aka boost valve) that is used in the APEXi AVC-R stand alone boost controller??? Why yes I believe it is! Im pretty sure the AVC-R is readily available used and new here in the US. I have found the replacement boost valve and sensor online for just over $100 for both. So then why is the kit 415-A001 listed for no less than $300 new anywhere? Im not really sure... In fact I find it rather sad that used kits are listed for $300-$600 depending where in the world they are. At least you can find the old AVC-R kit in good condition for under $200. Im seriously considering buying the sensor and valve or the AVC-R and searching out the connectors needed to make my own harness. It really can be any worse than wiring the RB into a 260Z.

 

You are spot on. If you search around on the AEM EMS forums, you will find that there are other suppliers that sell the same boost control solenoid. In fact, last I checked, people found industrial supply catalogues that had essentially the same part in them. The solenoid is used for industrial clamps/jigs/etc that require electronically activated pneumatics. That PFC kit is expensive because it is from Japan and rare; that's all. Caveat Emptor.

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POWER FC - FAQ by Paulr33 @ SAU

 

I found this yesterday and I found it HIGHLY helpful.

 

 

I was searching for the APEXi part numbers when I ran across this FAQ on Google.

 

 

Map Sensor:

499-X001

 

Valve:

499-X003

 

Harness:

49C-A002

 

Exerpts from Paulr33's website

 

The optional boost controller kit for the Power FC consists of the pressor sensor, pressure sensor harness and solenoid. The solenoid should be plumbed between your manifold and the wastegate actuator (internal wastegate setup). For external wastegate setup it should be plumbed between the manifold and your external wastegate pressure line. The pressure sensor should be plumbed in parrallel with the factory MAP sensor which is used by your standar boost guage.

 

The solenoid has two labels on it, you should match them accordingly

 

COM line should goto wastegate actuator

NO line should goto intercooler piping

 

It can be T'eed into the plumbing with its included T piece fitting.

 

Boost Controller Kit Type #1

3 wire plug, Solenoid runs to stock boost control loom on stock ECU wiring loom.

3 wires in Apexi loom are for Map sensor - Signal, Ground and Power

 

Boost Controller Kit Type #2

5 wire plug, Solenoid runs to map sensor harness which runs to Boost Controller port on PowerFC

3 wires are for Map sensor - Signal, Ground and Power. 2 Wires are for Solenoid Power and Ground

 

Skyline RB25DET PowerFC and GTR RB26 Uses Type #1

 

 

The pressure sensor has the main wiring harness directly attached to itself, one end plugs into the 5 pin port on the PowerFC. The solenoid piggybacks off the Pressure Sensor wiring harness which leads to the PowerFC connector port. The wiring is shown below.

 

MAP Sensor

Red = Positive

Black = Negative (earth)

Green = Signal

 

Solenoid

Pink = Positive

Black = Negative

 

When the solenoid wiring meets with the Map Sensor harness the colours for the Soneoid change as follows;

 

Pink = Red

Black = Brown

 

Boost Control Kit - Parts Inventory

boost-kit.jpg

Boost Control Kit - Complete Kit

PFC_BCK.jpg

Boost Control Kit - MAP Sensor

PFC_BKC_MAP_Sensor.jpg

Boost Control Kit - Solenoid

PFC_BKC_Solenoid.jpg

Apexi PowerFC - Plug Layout

TN_powerfc-plug-layout.jpg

 

 

Boost display without the Boost Control Kit?

By default as the PowerFC will not show boost pressure as it has no method of reading it in via the stock ECU loom. If you purchase a suitable map sensor and connect it to the PowerFC boost control kit port then the hand controller will display boost pressure. The boost control kit uses a Denso map sensor which is part #DPS 310 2000a - Denso 949940 6270 5V and the wiring loom cable/plug can be brought from Apexi which is around $40 AU. The cable is listed as the 3pin boost control harness. Nengun has this listed under Electronics -> Apexi -> D Jetro Option Parts

 

Alternatively below is the pin out diagram for the Boost Control Kit port. This is for the 3 pin version only. I am unsure of the pinouts for the 5 pin version.

boostkit-port.jpg

1 = Voltage+

2 = Signal

3 = Ground

 

I have done this on my car and it works correclty. I used the boost control kit harness ($30 new) and the Boost Control kit Map sensor. Connect them up using the supplied plugs & loom and plug it into the PowerFC Boost Control kit port. You don't need to enable the Boost Control Kit (under ETC, FUNCTION SELECT) for it to display boost and for BOST to work in ETC, SENSOR SW/CHECK

 

 

 

***********************************************************************************

 

 

Perhaps someone could tell me what the check valve on the boost valve line is for.

Maybe its a filter not a check valve?

 

 

On another note: I bought the wiring harness for $25 USD shipped. I bought a used AVC-R for $170. So Im still under $200 and I ended with the head unit and wiring harness for the AVC-R.

Edited by rayaapp2

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Just bought all my intercooler piping from 034motorsports

 

intercooler%20pipes%20034motorsport%201.jpg

 

intercooler%20pipes%20034motorsport%202.jpg

 

Will install tomorrow.

Im officially $10K deep for all costs of this car... only took me 8 years to spend it.

 

 

 

I also wanted to note that APEXi USA tried to give me the run around on buying the 415-A001 Kit components separately. They tried to say that there was more in the kit than what was there and that they wouldnt sell it in peices, then when I provided the part numbers they said they were available at an inflated price (more than the kit total). I purchased the Wire harness 3 pin for ~$25 dropped shipped from APEX integration and bought a ~$180 AVC-r shipped off of ebay instead. Total was ~$200.

Ray

Edited by rayaapp2

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Boost Control Valve

 

So I got my AVC-R in. Perhaps there was some truth to what APEXi USA was saying. The plug on the valve will not just plug into the R33 S2 plug on my car for the stock solenoid. I still feel like they were giving me the run around though.

 

Im not entirely convinced that this system was well designed. The boost valve vents to atmosphere. The instructions also say vent to atmosphere. The system is still MAF even if there is now a MAP sensor involved. All the information I have read leads me to believe the MAP sensor is not being used for A/F in a way that replaces the MAF. So Venting the valve to atmosphere seams like an A/F as well as emissions problem. As I understand it Japans emissions standards are more stringent that most of the US including good ol' Ca. Its a minor vacuum/boost leak, but it still plays a part on A/F calculation that the MAF cannot account for. The APEXi Power FC is like many systems here in Ca that are Off Highway Use Only so emissions were most likely not an issue to be addressed. Still the A/F calculation thing bothers me a little. I wish I could find some info about this system that actually states for a fact that it cross references the MAP for A/F calculation. Hopefully Ill find out when I plug it into my lap top and start going over all the perimeters and figuring out how to set it up.

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5-15%20engine%20bay%201.JPG

 

5-15%20engine%20bay%202.JPG

 

Getting there.

 

The old '82 200sx Radiator removed. PRC 24" X 19" Double Pass 3 core should arrive 5/17/10.

In all those silicone couplers I ordered one wrong, and the replacement will be here on Monday as well.

 

APEXi Power FC, Boost controller add on, and Innovate LC-1 wideband O2 have all been completely wired up.

As soon as I get the coupler and radiator in Ill be able to start some basic tuning.

 

 

And perhaps I have missed something else here: The BOV is still stock. What is that thing set for? Think it will take a bit more boost? How much?

Edited by rayaapp2

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hi - just tried so view your build thread a the beginning of this thread and all the images appear to have disappeared? or is it something at my end.

I'm about to start by RB25 build here in New Zealand would love to have a read about yours - nice car!

 

Cheers BH

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hi - just tried so view your build thread a the beginning of this thread and all the images appear to have disappeared? or is it something at my end.

I'm about to start by RB25 build here in New Zealand would love to have a read about yours - nice car!

 

Cheers BH

Sorry Guys, I moved about a year ago and my new ISP(and pretty much ONLY ISP available where i live) will not allow me to run Dynamic DNS so my personal server that was hosting everything is no longer available to WWW. I have opted instead to use Photobucket now.

I may have to check and see if I can edit the pictures in those old posts, but I think the edit button is locked. Will check.

Anyway PhotoBucket Album 260ZR

Edited by rayaapp2

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I have an Update for Hybridz

 

As some may have noticed my Turbo died. Its just under 100K miles. Thats not to bad for one of these units. I think they are rated at 60-80K miles. I bought the engine with 80K on it.

 

So here is the list of parts I have been collecting over the past 2 years. This is my excuse to install them.

 

Cometic MLS head gasket

Cometic MLS exhaust gasket

ARP Head Studs

Supertech Valve Spring Seals

Marshal non-oil filled fuel pressure gauge to replace the oil filled one that died from my underhood temps.

BD Proformance Turbo Cool Down Timer

Autometer 6144 Pyrometer kit

Nissan GTR Thermocouple that needs tested, but might be the K sensor I need to install into the downpipe for secondary sampling

Stock turbo in good shape low miles

New HKS wastegate actuator

Turbo rebuild kit by Kamak

14401-21U25 turbo gasket kit

Circuit Sports steel braided turbo lines, less oil pressure line

New XS Power divorced wastegate downpipe w/gaskets (gaskets are in okay shape, not perfect). 3" bellmouth style

6StarRacing stock mount header - IF AVAILABLE on order

new oil pressure sender

Waiting on Fidanza to return my adjustable cam gear.

 

Im a few parts short at the moment.

timing belt

idler pulley

thermostat 70*

 

 

Ive just pulled the head off. That took about 3.5 hours. That Greddy intake is a PITA to get loose from the head, forget about pulling it out of the car. I left the intake laying in the engine bay and yanked the head off. Next I need to plan out a way to carefully remove the valves, retainers, and springs so I can do the valve stem seals. There is a significant amount of carbon buildup in the combustion chambers and on top of the pistons. What interested me most was the fact that the tops of the pistons were definitely the worst, but the exhaust side of the piston was pretty bad as well, while the intake side of the domes are fairly clean. My cylinder walls are in good shape so the bottom end will be staying together for now.

 

I did spend about 3 hours yesterday polishing my valve covers. Basically I got bored. They look good, but I will likely get a bunch of these parts powder coated. I live 15min from the bay. My Greddy intake, valve covers, and a few other things are showing oxidation and its driving me nuts.

 

Parts in Sapphire Blue

6 Injector caps

Valve covers

3 piece timing cover

 

Parts in Gun Metal Grey

Intake manifold

Turbo Charger turbine heat shield

 

Thanks all for now. Will update as I get pictures of my progress.

Edited by rayaapp2

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Several months ago it looked like this

 

P1050356.jpg

 

This is from the past 2 weeks until this afternoon:

 

P1050877.jpg

 

P1050923.jpg

 

0630111607-00.jpg

 

0630111554-00.jpg

 

Lots of carbon buildup.

 

0701111339-00.jpg

 

P1060056.jpg

 

P1060059.jpg

 

P1060057.jpg

 

P1060058.jpg

 

P1060060.jpg

 

I am going to have a hell of a time trying to clean those exhaust valves. The have some tough buildup on them.

The chambers dont look to bad, but definitely have carbon deposits as well. Now I know why I had to pull timing back on the dyno.

 

Why am I constantly using cars in my garage as a shelf. Its like I dont know Im doing it until it looks like this:

 

P1060061.jpg

 

Oh well, Thats all for today.

 

EDIT: Hey I just found my hat and sunglasses... and I didnt even have to go out to the garage and look.

Edited by rayaapp2

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:lol: Nice, I call that flat surface syndrome. It's ok because you at least have everything on a big towel or fender cover.

 

Was your turbo rebuilt stock or did they install steel wheels? A lot of guys down under get theirs high flowed for easy install

 

When I tore down my RB20's head, I gave it to a machine shop to install my valve stem seals. They pressure tested and boiled the whole head. It came out nicely and I think only charged a couple hours for everything.

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It was a low mileage Turbo that a shop installed one of those KamaK rebuild kits into and I purchased the Nissan gasket kit mentioned above to finish it off.

I did contact a Garrett distributor close to me and they quoted me $750 which isnt bad considering they just re-use the turbine and compressor housing and replace the center sections with new units, but that was out of my price range.

 

I will be making some phone calls on the 5th to see if I can get my head into a local shop at a reasonable price. Id like to get it tanked, surfaced and have the valves cleaned up.

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I'll tell you what my machine shop told me. They would have needed to make a jig to surface it because of the way the valve cover sealing surfaces are angled. If you got the MLS head gasket, they made need to surface it so the finish is appropriate for it. If you have a shop you know has already worked on RB's then you might be ok. I've heard differing opinions on MLS gaskets needing the correct surface finish on the block and head

 

:cheers:

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Well on the L series, I have run before with the MLS gasket it has been pretty critical that the surface be uber flat. HOWEVER, the MLS gaskets I have used on the L series are just that, multiple layers of steel. The Cometic gasket has a viton seal applied to some of its layers including the outermost layers which is why it looks black and not shiny metal. A completely uniform surface would be ideal, but small imperfections should be sealed by the viton coating. Larger imperfections would not be obviously, but you can probably gauge the difference. Some of the L series engines I have ran with MLS gaskets leak when cold and seal up as soon as its warmed up. The thinner gaskets tend to do this more because there is less crush I think to take up imperfections.

There are lots of twin cam heads out there with similar V style cam setups. I would think a good and well rounded machine shop would not have an issue setting up to surface it. I really doubt there is anyone in my area that has a clue what my engine is. They are few and far between unlike the central valley, Silicon valley, and all the east/North bay area where they seem to be prevalent. I will likely contact th machine shops I know are familiar with the L-series heads. I figure if they can properly work on the L head then they are probably qualified to work on the rb head. Ill find out I guess.

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