Help me with engine decision and info

[HowlerMonkey]

Not sure about that second link Grim since it defines an "oversquare" engine as one with a longer stroke than bore.........which is backwards.

[auxilary]

Hey Auxilary, couldn't you get your wankel and transmission weighed so that we could have an accurate reference to the weight? It would be like the first posting of the 13B actual weight figures in the world.

 

Not really. don't have any scales (at all). The stock long block without intake manifolds or accessories (but with rotors and eccentric shaft installed and assembled) is about 170 lbs. My frined and I maneuvered it easily around the garage. The transmission is aluminum and I can pick it up and move it by myself, feels about 80-90 lbs.

 

Maybe if I find an industrial spring scale, I can hang individual items off my cherry picker and get the numbers. I'll see if HF has anything of the sort, something like this:

 

Although, I wouldn't trust anything over 50 lbs with those hooks, despite the scale being rated up to 440 lbs.

[smokeybear]

I seriously doubt the CA really weighs 282 in full longblock trim. Most 4 cylinders regardless of iron block vs aluminum block, SOHC vs DOHC setup fall between 325 and 400 pounds.

 

The VG30E has been verified by a couple people to weigh in under 400 pounds in running trim, and is an insanely compact engine, and it has a sturdy iron block with internals that can take 300+ boosted HP without complaining with stock internals. They're dime o' dozen too. That was my initial point.

 

The SR doesn't make much sense to me imo. In fact, pretty much all imported engines don't make much sense to me other than wow factor (which I can respect). If you're going for practicality go with something you can find parts for left and right and is easy to work on.

 

The CA is extremely rare in the US compared to a multitude of engines, and the US never got any good SR engines. They're both out of the game for engine swaps for me personally. If I really wanted a 4 cylinder I'd go with a toyota engine, or the KA24DE with a budget turbo conversion. Those things have shown to be quite the workhorse.

 

Oh, and for the record, these are some of the only engine weights I'd stake money on: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=125246

 

There's been many discussions on this site on weight methods and how nobody online seems to care to mention what was ON THE ENGINE when they give you the weight..... Completely useless.

 

The sr20det is a great motor, it is great on gas, very reliable, and lots and lots of support. I do agree on the KA comment though. I am a big fan of the KA, they make some pretty impressive numbers on small turbos and stock botton ends.

[Gollum]

I never said it was a bad motor. I never said there wasn't support like you're probably thinking about it.

 

I'm talking about your car happens to melt a sensor due to poor intake piping location, so you're stranded on the side of the road, and the local napa doesn't have the part you need.

 

USDM motors almost always make more sense in a car that's going to see regular use and abuse. This is one of the main reasons people use chevy engines in many of their own cars, and why even some ford guys convert over to chevy parts where they can. There's nothing like "support" at every store you walk in no matter what state you're in.

 

And in that regard the CA and the KA both beat the SR imo.

[STRATTON]

 

And in that regard the CA and the KA both beat the SR imo.

 

why do say that ?

 

stratton.

[Gollum]

Umm, see above post I just wrote....

 

The SR20DET wasn't ever a USDM motor, thus you can't find parts for it at just any ol' store. You have to find JDM part importers.

[STRATTON]

parts can be had very easily. you cant just walk into a nappa and get a water pump. but you can get one sent to you with in a few days, or over night ship it if you wanna spend the cash for shipping.

 

ive had jdm parts over night shipped from cali to new york. if you know the right people to get parts from its not difficult to obtain them.

 

stratton.

[Gollum]

Umm, so my point still stands. When you're stranded in the desert and triple A tows you to the nearest town you're still out of luck.

 

It is what it is, and I wasn't misleading in my posts, and I understand perfectly well that you can order parts from importers.

[Gritz]

Umm, so my point still stands. When you're stranded in the desert and triple A tows you to the nearest town you're still out of luck.

 

It is what it is, and I wasn't misleading in my posts, and I understand perfectly well that you can order parts from importers.

 

You know that there are many parts that interchange right...most major parts are interchangeable with the us motors(sr20-sr20det)....Maybe I'm different but i don't do high performance engine swaps and then take the car cross cuntry..Any high hp engine is not really something you would want to do that in...

 

But if you do want a everyday, reliable, street car...i agree a ls1, lt1..etc is a good idea..cause those motors push good power in stock form..No matter what someone says, you can't get more reliable than a motor in stock trim, factory spec...

[Canadianz]

I agree with the points that stock engines are often more reliable than modified highly tuned engines. Also remeber that the SR20 in non turbo trim was built and sold in North America. I would disagree with the idea that it is hard to get parts for engines which were "never produced" in North America. I have an RB25det and have bought almost all of the parts for it locally from my nissan dealership. This includes water pumps oil pumps, belts etc. Other smaller parts can be had from Napa or a similar store, however you won't find it under "SR20DET from JDM land" in their computer. As a previous poster noted the majority of the parts on Nissan engines are interchangeable, so cross referencing and research is required. Go look on some 240sx/Silvia sites and you'll see what I mean.

 

Remeber again your driving a car which is almost 40 years old, do you think you could walk into Napa and get a waterpump for a 71 datsun off the shelf in every location? Probably not. With that being said, if you go with a JDM engine and your not afraid of cross referencing go ahead, the parts are there, they may be more expensive and require more thought than buying for somthing like a 350 chev, as far as getting parts, even though they are there.

 

As far as something reliable and good on gas, go out and buy yourself an RB25det, with the tall gearing its great on gas and it goes like hell. If you don't mess with it too much its also a very tough engine. The 25's are getting cheaper too. I personally would avoid the rotaries in a DD, I know the renisis has problems with flooding and seal wear in certain cases. While their are fixes just go and get something that works stock. Besides you don't need too much power to have fun in a Datsun, most people have never driven or ridden in a 200whp Datsun let alone a 400 hp monster. 200whp is definatly enough to have fun and get you around.

 

Good luck on your engine choice,

 

Chris

[AkumaNoZeta]

I'm still convinced on the CA18DET, because they're cheap and I dont have any problems at all finding any part for them. They did have an American cousin that you can exchange parts with, the 87-90 Pulsar NX. Just when it comes the time to buy it, I would have to make sure it has the single inlet ports instead of the dual ones like mentioned above.

 

I'm not too concerned about have 500 horsepower. The CA comes 166 stock, which is close to the Datsun's L6 stock so I wouldn't be losing in performance per se by putting it in. And I want to build it for the mid to high end power I want, along with durability and reliability, and not gonna focus on "I want 500 horsepower". I'll be happy with 250 when it comes down to it.

 

I'm not worried about big numbers because my friend wants to build a high horsepower Mustang using the engine and drivetrain from mine and putting it into a non-rusted 4-cylinder Stang so if I have the desire to do 0-100 in 2.5 seconds (exageration) I'll just drive that since it will be an "our" kinda thing. Both his 383 SBC S-10 and my Mustang are shared equally between us so we never get in fights like when you ask your dad to borrow the Corvette for a date so to speak.

 

Plus, for a DD I rather have something low powered because that way when I get to drive the Mustang or S10 it would still be a lot of fun instead of being really boring because I'm used to a 500 hp 2500 Datsun, you know what I mean?Sorry about the rant, lol

[Gollum]

Remeber again your driving a car which is almost 40 years old, do you think you could walk into Napa and get a waterpump for a 71 datsun off the shelf in every location? Probably not.

 

Actually, yes, I can and have. The L series engines have a ton of interchangeable parts between generations and 4-6 cylinder variants. It was also put into probably over half a million vehicles in the USA, thus there's still huge support for it.

 

And yes there are some interchangeable parts between the USDM FWD SR20, and the JDM RWD SR20. Though there ARE parts that don't, some because of the difference between the USDM electronics and the JDM electronics, and some because the FWD engines are different in many ways to begin with.

 

 

And to Grim:

 

I think the CA is a fine engine to pick. The CA18DE was in the 200SX here in the USA, so there will be some part support right there. I personally don't really think the stock HP is truly worth the swap, but I think that with your goals in mind it fits the bill. A lot of engines are good engines for that power range though, so I think it comes down to other factors such as driving style, weight, ease of install, fabrication skill, etc.

[Canadianz]

Gollum I think you missed my point, if you can get a water pump for an old L-series then there is just as likely a good chance you can get a usdm alternative part for the JDM SR20det. Obvious differences will be in the ECU, that is a given, however most of the major parts and sensors will have an equivalent. I am trying to think of parts that there wouldn't be a replacement for, which would have to be ordered from JDM land and to be honest I can't think of any that would go and not result in a catostphic break down, eg requiring a rebuild.

Alot of the major parts do swap from Sr's hence the conversions you can find in the Sentra crowd with the turbo Sr's. I guess if for some reason you blew the whole engine up, yeah your in trouble, at the same time your probalby not at joes towing asking to find a set of SR20 pistions to "get you home".

 

Having rebuilt both an L-series and an RB using local shops, I found that alot of my L-series stuff was ordered in and not in stock on the shelf. It came in quicker than the RB stuff and cheaper but it was still a wait. I live in Canada so Im not sure if that makes the difference at all that your talking about.

 

Any way as I say get whatever engine you want, if your plan is to drive it a ton pick something reliable, the CA18 seems like a smart choice. Rebuild it and don't get to fancy. The point of this thread was to give the fella ideas and not argue about the difficulty of getting parts for a JDM engine. That being said, Im done best of luck Grim ! Start throwing hours at that car of yours, we want some pics !

[AkumaNoZeta]

HOLY HEARTATTACK!!!! I have support...I'm not used to that, lol.

 

And I did had the same problem with the L, I had to order a water pump and had to wait for it to be shipped in. Same thing with ignition coil.

 

I'll gladly get started on building the CA right now. Ummmm, could you loan me a couple thousand? lol, Just kidding but yeah I don't have the funds for anything yet. I'm still in the planning and designing stage.

[RUZN]

Yeah but rotories Suck for Longevity =-( SR20 at least is widely avaliable and theres tons of upgrades or just good Stock with mild tuning. Ca18 ehh... why not Sr20 then lol.. just do the SR20 or a Cheap KA24DE and add Turbo. Last forever and take a good beating

[AkumaNoZeta]

I'm a kind of guy that likes to take that path least traveled. I like the SR and KA but EVERYbody is doing them. I like the CA because its has revability that the other two dont, I'm not just talking about the head either. It's an oversquare bore which makes it into a great revver. The thing I really love about the CA is that its not so popular, you dont see every Nissan with one like you do with the SR and KA. But the CA is still popular enough to prove itself a great little engine. I mean, its not called "the mini RB" for nothing

[Gollum]

I understand the whole "path less traveled" mindset. I've been the same way in the past which is why I have at least basic knowledge on probably a hundred engines. I love engines, period. I have very little brand loyalty and I can find good points to swapping nearly any engine.

 

The CA I consider kinda like the B16 of the nissan engines. Very good rev potential, smaller displacement range, mostly square engine. It doesn't have quite the same HP range out of the box, but it's also an older engine that didn't see long enough life to be OBD-II compliant. The main limiting factor I see in them is that their cam design, though allowing lots of revs with little problems as long as you have enough spring pressure, doesn't allow for much camshaft lift before you start hitting the walls of the head. There is no rockers so you can't achieve more lift with higher ratio rockers, it's pure cam lift. I don't remember how much it's limited to, but it's not necessarily a problem with force induction. With force induction you're more concerned with duration and timing, with as little overlap as possible.

 

The SR is the "cool" swap right now. The KA is either respected or rejected, but many people won't even know what the CA is, which is nice in my book.

 

Oh yea, and I've never had to wait on these parts for an L series engine:

 

Water Pump

Head Gasket

Valve Cover Gasket

Head Temp Sensor

Coolant Temp Sensor

Oil Pressure Sending Unit

Knock Sensor

Thermostat

Distributor Cap/Rotor

 

Though, many times I need to call around to find out who has it. My good luck might have to do with my location. There must be at least 20 auto part stores within 5 miles of my house.

 

I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong, I'm just showing that in many areas there is more support for the L series still than many other engines due to the fact they were put in almost every datsun made.

[AkumaNoZeta]

I'm throwing a wrench in this plan. 1990 Ford 302, great running stock with T5. Would we all agree this being my best option? Its in my rusted out Mustang that I'm gonna give up on because everytime I think I have the cracks in the frame fixed...they come back.

 

That means engine with trans is free (transmission needs reverse fixed because I broke that on a steep incline).

 

And the Mustang has been my daily driver so I know the 5.0 HO aint bad at all on gas, plenty of torque. Not to mention free.

 

Oh, and all the research I've done I have came to the conclusion (whether 100% or not is still in the air) that the 5.0 with T5 wieghs the same as the L28 with 5spd, and looking at the thread with other people's cars weights posted it seemed that the weight has always been biased to the rear with the 302 in it.

 

I just think that no matter how much I want to have another Nissan engine in the car...the 302 from my Mustang seems to be the best option. I already have it and the only reason I have the Mustang is because of the engine, which would allow me to finally scrap the rusted shell (after parting it out of course).

 

You all agree with me?

[kiwi303]

if the engines free... go for it...

 

I've got a cleveland block and heads and a 302 crank coming, decided 200Hp from a 3.5 rover won't be enough, go for broke on a clevo

[twoeightythreez]

The only problem I can possibly see is with that T-5. Hope it holds up for ya awhile.