HowlerMonkey Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I've been keeping an eye on electric motor technology as it applies to the possibility of a usable (not ebay) electric turbocharger and, at the same time, reviewing WWII "power recovery turbine" technology. I really got into power recovery technology as a young man in miami where I just happened to be around when an extra set of hands were required to clean/replace spark plugs when a friend of my father was prepping a Lockeed Constellation for takeoff. Being a young man in college for A&P training visiting dad, I was more than willing to unscrew all 144 spark plugs just to get near one of those engines. (A&P put them back in). I remember being fascinated when told what the strange turbines were for. The engines use a turbo hot section geared to the crankshaft to recover exhaust gases and turn them into torque through a torque convertor like fluid coupling. The benefits of this are only useful in long term power production with steady state throttle positon.........like a cruising airplane though volvo has recently been revisiting this on the assumption that the slight efficiency increase of about 3 or 4 percent might become viable if gas prices continue to climb. Anyway.......I was thinking about this and saw an electric turbo ad banner (not sure which site would advertise that crap) and was wondering about using "power recovery" to drive a generator/motor on the turbo shaft to pull down turbine rpms by charging a bank of batteries instead of venting the exhaust gases through the waste gate once boost limit is reached. Since many high speed generators in the aviation industry are also starter motors when used on turbine engines, I was thinking you could also use said bank of batteries to drive the turbo shaft to combat boost lag or build boost under conditions where the engine does not have enough exhaust gases to build boost on it's own. This could allow one to use a bigass turbo tailored for huge hp up top but also be able to build boost early in the rpm range though this might only benefit long haul trucks that stay under boost for long periods of time........not really sure. Motor/generator as well as battery technology has come a long way in regards to efficiency the last decade. Insane in the membrane? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skib Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Im no ME so I cant comment much, but this intrigues me subscribed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 Crap........patented in 1994 but I didn't see the patent mentioning using the loads of generating electricity to provide boost control.. Expires in 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 You can still make it. Use the patent as "assembly instructions". You just can't market it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 It was just something that popped into my head.......no resources to pull something like that off. I used to just about live at the patent office at crystal city, va. and noticed that most people doing "patent searches" were there doing "idea searches" rather than coming up with it on thier own. A patent is only as good as one's ability to enforce it and people take advantage of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Guess what? Last year at the Euro AG Trade Show CAT showed off just such a device, where a small turbine in the exhaust downstream of the turbocharger was geared directly to the engine through a 'fluid coupling' for power recovery/increased crankshaft horsepower! Just like that old Constellation... "There is nothing new!" LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) I later went back after A&P at SIU Carbondale and worked on some of the junk at Miami international airport after the eastern machinists strike of 1989 effectively bounced me out of the eastern airlines pilot entry program. Mercedes could be using the electric coupled turbo on next year's F1 engine. For some reason, I can't post images..............forum software stops dead. Now I remember why I don't post here anymore. You will just have to guess what I am talking about. Edited April 25, 2015 by HowlerMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Yep, various F1 engine makers are using a lot of energy recovery technology, including using braking generated electricity to drive the turbo via a electric motor when it's losing speed prior to accelerating. A turbo lag eliminator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) This is not simple regenerative braking. The turbo center section is a motor sandwiched between the hot side and the compressor. LOL.......forum software won't even let me generate a link using the tools or even paste in any text..........let me type the entire link with the keyboard because of the suckage. cdn.images.autosport.com/editorial/1357915433.jpg Edited December 26, 2015 by RB26powered74zcar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Available soon on eBay, "electric superchargers as Mercedes is using"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theghosttanker Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 There's a big difference between using an electric motor to keep turbine speed up when there is no load on the motor, and using an electric motor to drive a turbocharger under load. It takes something in the area of 20 or 30 horsepower (provided by the hot side) to maintain boost under load. That's a HUGE electric motor. And battery, too.... but the idea of an electric "anti-lag" system (capacitor driven, maybe?) seems possible but complex and unobtainably expensive. In other words, perfect for F-1! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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