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Mercedes Benz M104 engine for the 240Z


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#1 MAG58

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 04:42 PM

I figured I'd finally make it official, the DOHC project got put on hold when I got a sizzling deal on all the pieces parts (minus rods and pistons) to make a MB M104.980 Stroker motor (Same as the C36AMG engine). So far I've been talking to the fine people at 190Rev.net on all the technicals for this engine and trying to piece together all the goodies to make it happy. At any rate, since my DD is my Z right now the motor cant get mocked up yet, but I measured and it should fit without cutting or big ol' fancy hood scoops.

As far as specs:
89mm bore and 92.4mm stroke (could go to 91 for full 3.6L but I want to stay with more wall thickness for a terbeaux :flamedevi)
Engine weight is 441lbs, I'll put it on a scale when it's built for sure to put up with BRAAP's definitive engine weights.
Head flow is unkown but now I do have a 90-92 and a 93-97 (production breaks) head so I can see which is a better flowing piece.

Anywho, here are some pics:
The head's all wrapped up so I'll just use my M104 to L series head comparo pics... It's the same head anyway.


First off, the block. M104.981ish 3.0L Engine Block
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Moar...
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Front of block:
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350SDL "Diesel" crank (Now not just limited to L series fun for strokers!)
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As a side note, the block has over 150k on it and the bores are still within a thou of origional specs, there are no ring marks at the top and you can still see the factory cross-hatch. The crank has something on the order of a bunch more and still plasti-gauged at .002 on all the mains, using USED main bearings(only to check clearances). I love german motors.

The Head!
Intake side:
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Exhaust Side:
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CC's
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Anyway, sorry if you don't like absurd amounts of pics in detail, I'm kinda anal about logging everything. More updates in a few weeks, block's going to get hot-tanked and I'm on the search for 280CE rods and forged pistons.

Datsuns n' stuff. 


#2 cygnusx1

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 06:39 PM

Wow, nice "fake L28" swap! Can you sneak a Datsun valve cover on that head for a total sleeper?

We all know that Mercedes copied the L28. :lmao:

#3 BRAAP

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 07:05 PM

Oh yeah baby! :2thumbs:

#4 Evan Purple240zt

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 10:32 PM

Very cool man! I love it.

Keep it up.
1995 240sx....
1972 240z RIP

#5 Daeron

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 01:54 AM

We all know that Mercedes copied the L28. :lmao:


*Audible*groan*

What does this engine look like in profile, from front-to-back? I am curious about its looks compared to the L-gata, sump-wise.... What is it going to take to hang it where it needs to hang in the engine bay, and for that matter, where in the engine bay will it sit compared to the L-gata?

Those are just the first couple of questions that haven't been answered yet. I love ALL I6 engines, and there is almost nothing I like seeing more than an I6 swap into a Z. A DOHC, 3.5-4L super-cool european race motor?!? YEAH!!!!

(i am a teensy bit excited about this. forgive me)

I suppose I could have simply said, "Subscribed!"


BTW I love this picture.. the blurry dude with hammer in hand in the background is an awesome touch
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Fusible Links blow.

1-5-3-6-2-4, counter-clockwise from 9 o'clock when viewing from driver side fender

There's something about a white Nissan......
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#6 slownrusty

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 05:02 AM

Can you give the exact model the block or engine came out? The C36 and all the straight six 3.2L all had head gaskets issues at no 5 and 6..this was a frustrating source to many MB owners, so a word of caution. These engines get VERY hot and if you are going to turbocharge it, be warned of the heat. Interesting swap and I am very intrigued, I am subscribing.

Yasin
Ole skool "wouldn't have it any other way"

#7 MAG58

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 09:46 AM

The block is a MB 104.981 block, or the early "300-24" 3.0L block. It has the 89mm bore as opposed to the 89.9mm bore of the 2.8/3.2 motors and I do not plan on taking it to the 91mm that the C36 (actually a 2.8L) Block has to try and keep as much cylinder wall thickness in it as possible. I have already been talking to a bunch of individuals in Sweden that make big numbers with the M103/4 engines in turbocharged form and a custom Metal head gasket as well as a few cooling modifications will be on their way. This engine does however do fantastically well in turbocharged form, with the low power "base" M104 making 400hp and 500ft/lbs on 91 octane in an untouched motor/ecu (added injector in intake mani).


The hardest thing is going to be finding a tranny, because the transmission that fits is the 2.3-16 Getrag 260 (same as in the E30M3) which is a dogleg with no OD. I feel this would be bad for a bigger displacement turbo motor, so if any of you have any options, the clutch is figured out. I can probably adapt using the bell housing from the 722.6xx auto.

Datsuns n' stuff. 


#8 MAG58

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 04:59 PM

And for Daeron (sorry for the double post), The engine is shorter than the L series length wise (don't ask me how), has a 20mm taller deck height (same as the diesel) but is less than 20mm taller than the L series (also, have no Idea how this is with the head installed though) and about 30lbs lighter. The engine is front sump (much like a bimmer) but as short as it is, I should only have to lightly notch the front x-member to make it fit while the engine leans over and I will probably do and engine cradle similar to the SBF guys.


I wish I would have taken a picture of the engine from the side, it's really interesting how much the engine is engineered, all the ribbing is cast into the exterior of the block and there really is as much material removed as MB deemed possible.

Datsuns n' stuff. 


#9 Daeron

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 01:36 AM

And for Daeron (sorry for the double post), The engine is shorter than the L series length wise (don't ask me how), has a 20mm taller deck height (same as the diesel) but is less than 20mm taller than the L series (also, have no Idea how this is with the head installed though) and about 30lbs lighter. The engine is front sump (much like a bimmer) but as short as it is, I should only have to lightly notch the front x-member to make it fit while the engine leans over and I will probably do and engine cradle similar to the SBF guys.


I wish I would have taken a picture of the engine from the side, it's really interesting how much the engine is engineered, all the ribbing is cast into the exterior of the block and there really is as much material removed as MB deemed possible.


Hrmmmmmmm...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

What about leaning her over on her side???

Getting that hot, hot exhaust down under where airflow can be directed around it then out the sides, leave you open for acres and acres of intake tract....

I am wondering what a Datsun with a slanted M-B engine might be "Eaton" for lunch............:burnout:

240 ZLK!!!!
Fusible Links blow.

1-5-3-6-2-4, counter-clockwise from 9 o'clock when viewing from driver side fender

There's something about a white Nissan......
Wisdom is knowing how much you do not know.
"Indeed, if fish had fish-lore, and Wise-fish, it is probable that the business of anglers would be little hindered." -JRR Tolkien

ALL YOUR BOOST ARE BELONG TO US

#10 BRAAP

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 01:51 AM

I am wondering what a Datsun with a slanted M-B engine might be "Eaton" for lunch............:burnout:

240 ZLK!!!!


Did someone say EATON?.. ;-)


Posted Image

#11 MAG58

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 08:38 AM

It's already leaned over on it's side. Making the motor fit is not what I'm worried about, the engine is very good at producing large amounts of torque and I'm worried about finding a decent transmission that I can stuff behind it without Too much work that wont grenade.

Datsuns n' stuff. 


#12 MAG58

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 11:27 AM

Update:

First snag. Got the crank in and found a 280CE rod and piston for fit. This crank is massive :
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I stuffed the 280CE rod/piston in the bore, and rotated it through. Surprisingly nothing hit. It did however stick up a little bit...
Posted Image

Apparently this is a 3/4'' stroke over the 280 motor. Fixing this may be an issue...that's .385 sticking proudly out of the top of the block

Datsuns n' stuff. 


#13 Xnke

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 11:38 AM

Piston specs? Will a KA piston work? (he says with a snicker....)

#14 MAG58

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 11:44 AM

No but a honda one should :icon56:

I knew they had a purpose in life... to give me cheap forged pistons...

Datsuns n' stuff. 


#15 PanzerAce

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 12:52 PM

Hmmm...don't think a 2mm HG will solve that problem :P
1973 240Z, 3.0L Rebello, "running them funny sideways triple deuces". Living and breathing again after almost a year in the shop. DEATH BY SUV, 5-16-2012 RIP.
1978 280Z Possible recipient of anything salvageable from the '73

#16 Daeron

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 11:34 PM

This crank is massive :
Posted Image


Methinks thou might grindeth some rotating mass off from the outer edge of those crank journals..
Fusible Links blow.

1-5-3-6-2-4, counter-clockwise from 9 o'clock when viewing from driver side fender

There's something about a white Nissan......
Wisdom is knowing how much you do not know.
"Indeed, if fish had fish-lore, and Wise-fish, it is probable that the business of anglers would be little hindered." -JRR Tolkien

ALL YOUR BOOST ARE BELONG TO US

#17 MAG58

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 04:36 PM

Thinkin' about it. Also considering going back to a 3.2 crank since I'm looking for a bit more capacity for RPM's... We'll see.

Datsuns n' stuff. 


#18 hoov100

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 10:11 PM

could you find a set of pistons that have the same pin diameter and bore diameter, but with a higher pin height?

It seems Z's and AR's should come as a package deal.

Well yeah. Thats why I need a rollcage, so I can bolt a gun rack to it.



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#19 PanzerAce

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 11:41 AM

What's the stroke on the 3.2 crank? Is it as heavily built as the diesel?
1973 240Z, 3.0L Rebello, "running them funny sideways triple deuces". Living and breathing again after almost a year in the shop. DEATH BY SUV, 5-16-2012 RIP.
1978 280Z Possible recipient of anything salvageable from the '73

#20 neotech84

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 04:20 PM

Update:

I stuffed the 280CE rod/piston in the bore, and rotated it through. Surprisingly nothing hit. It did however stick up a little bit...
Posted Image

Apparently this is a 3/4'' stroke over the 280 motor. Fixing this may be an issue...that's .385 sticking proudly out of the top of the block



Naw it'll buff out!

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