Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Mercedes Benz M104 engine for the 240Z


  • Please log in to reply
86 replies to this topic

#41 MAG58

MAG58

    Bawb Dawg

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 652 posts
  • LocationBloomington, IN

Posted 16 November 2009 - 02:03 PM

Still looking for cams that are capable of scaring small children and making your average hippie have nightmares...

That said, come turkey day, the ol' gal gets measured up and prepped to go under the knife...:mrgreen:

Datsuns n' stuff. 


#42 PanzerAce

PanzerAce

    Used Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 735 posts
  • LocationMerced, CA

Posted 16 November 2009 - 02:06 PM

Mag, I'll be finding out about cams and those two trans you were looking for tomorrow. Got the day off work (thank god), so I should be able to get a fair bit done.

Also, no reply from rebello yet :/
1973 240Z, 3.0L Rebello, "running them funny sideways triple deuces". Living and breathing again after almost a year in the shop. DEATH BY SUV, 5-16-2012 RIP.
1978 280Z Possible recipient of anything salvageable from the '73

#43 letitsnow

letitsnow

    Discarded Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 872 posts
  • LocationRochester, NY

Posted 16 November 2009 - 02:14 PM

What about a regrind? They can cut you almost anything.

'89 Firebird.......'77 280z.....'90 Firebird.....'88 300zx

#44 MAG58

MAG58

    Bawb Dawg

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 652 posts
  • LocationBloomington, IN

Posted 16 November 2009 - 05:11 PM

Mag, I'll be finding out about cams and those two trans you were looking for tomorrow. Got the day off work (thank god), so I should be able to get a fair bit done.

Also, no reply from rebello yet :/


Thanks a ton PA, you've really got some good MB connections that have been a huge help in these shenanigans. :mrgreen:

What about a regrind? They can cut you almost anything.


We're working on that. I'd like to find a cam guy that kinda sorta knows his way around the motor maybe a little bit.

Datsuns n' stuff. 


#45 kiwi303

kiwi303

    Window licker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 748 posts
  • LocationTasman District, Nelson, NZ

Posted 16 November 2009 - 06:30 PM

We're working on that. I'd like to find a cam guy that kinda sorta knows his way around the motor maybe a little bit.


Spechin Deutsch?

try googling benz cams with google filters set to german domains only.... Surely there will be a german tuner crowd around over there?
I wanna go faster!

Sarcasm, among other things, can be hard to detect over the internet.


#46 MAG58

MAG58

    Bawb Dawg

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 652 posts
  • LocationBloomington, IN

Posted 16 November 2009 - 08:04 PM

Ja, Ich spreche ein bischen Deutsch, und ich habe ein paar deutsche Unternehmen untersucht.

However, the cost of the cams (the highest duration I've seen is 268 with about .385 lift) would be more than the rest of my project alone! I'm looking for some options stateside though.

Datsuns n' stuff. 


#47 letitsnow

letitsnow

    Discarded Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 872 posts
  • LocationRochester, NY

Posted 16 November 2009 - 08:46 PM

Give delta cams a call, they might not have much experience with the m104(maybe they do, I don't know, just guessing), but a cam is pretty much a cam no matter what engine it's in, they all have similar design requirements(with respect to reliability). As for specs, you'd have to ask them what they can do and compare to what you want.

'89 Firebird.......'77 280z.....'90 Firebird.....'88 300zx

#48 PanzerAce

PanzerAce

    Used Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 735 posts
  • LocationMerced, CA

Posted 17 November 2009 - 12:49 AM

Hey, no problem Mag. I figure since you turned me towards these motors with that L head thread, the least I can do is tap into the knowledge base that's a 10 minute drive down the road.

The trans stuff he'll be able to help out with no sweat, less sure about the cam stuff, but he'll know where to start.

Oh, and LIS, the problem that Mag and I have found is that while there are a number of cams for this engine, they are all geared toward people with MBs...which means they won't accept something that barely idles :P
1973 240Z, 3.0L Rebello, "running them funny sideways triple deuces". Living and breathing again after almost a year in the shop. DEATH BY SUV, 5-16-2012 RIP.
1978 280Z Possible recipient of anything salvageable from the '73

#49 WizardBlack

WizardBlack

    HybridZ Supporter

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1442 posts
  • LocationMarysville, Ohio, USA

Posted 17 November 2009 - 05:37 AM

I don't think he has any updates. Last word I got was he's (and I, for that matter) were looking for someone that'll do wild enough cams.


What did Ron Iskenderian say?
Colt cams?

1977 280Z

- RB25DET swap and Q45 rear end swap in progress (Delayed!)

- Frame off resto in progress!


#50 letitsnow

letitsnow

    Discarded Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 872 posts
  • LocationRochester, NY

Posted 17 November 2009 - 05:55 AM

Oh, and LIS, the problem that Mag and I have found is that while there are a number of cams for this engine, they are all geared toward people with MBs...which means they won't accept something that barely idles :P


Didn't think about that problem, I just kinda figured german car guys were completely nuts and considered a 2000rpm lumpy idle acceptable.

One of these engines is the contingency plan if I nuke both of my L series, probably not for a few years.

'89 Firebird.......'77 280z.....'90 Firebird.....'88 300zx

#51 MAG58

MAG58

    Bawb Dawg

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 652 posts
  • LocationBloomington, IN

Posted 17 November 2009 - 08:49 AM

Oh don't you worry none, they're nuts.
Posted Image

That said, they have big heavy cars and big heavy cars need bigger heavier engines. I'm just reaping the benfits (with my dinky little Japanese car) of the removal of very capable I6's to go to much larger capacity engines with many many more cylinders ;).

Datsuns n' stuff. 


#52 PanzerAce

PanzerAce

    Used Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 735 posts
  • LocationMerced, CA

Posted 17 November 2009 - 09:49 AM

Yah, the most common answer to "how do I get more power" seems to be "swap in a 500". They like power, they just like low engine power alot more then we do.

Mag, going to be hitting the road in a bit, should have some answers for you when next on the computer.
1973 240Z, 3.0L Rebello, "running them funny sideways triple deuces". Living and breathing again after almost a year in the shop. DEATH BY SUV, 5-16-2012 RIP.
1978 280Z Possible recipient of anything salvageable from the '73

#53 bradyzq

bradyzq

    HybridZ Supporter

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 228 posts
  • LocationMontreal, Quebec, Canada

Posted 17 November 2009 - 01:32 PM

Have you tried Elgin Cams? www.elgincams.com

They have a Mercedes section (and Datsun!)

Copied this from their site.

No affiliation, BTW...

MERCEDES BENZ PROFILES

We have the following stock masters for regrinding Mercedes cams. If you do not see your model listed below, we can still regrind your Mercedes cams but please allow another week.

190 SL 230 S 300 E
190 D 240 D 300 SL
220 S 1958-59 250 300 TD
220 1964 250 CPE. 380 SL
220 4 CYL. 280 SE 450 SEL
220 D 280 TWIN CAM 450 SEL HYD.
230 SL 300 D 6.9 V8

PERFORMANCE CAMS AVAILABLE FOR NEARLY ALL GASOLINE MERCEDES CAMS. PLEASE CALL FOR SPECIFICS.
If the bearing journals are worn undersize on your Mercedes cam, it is still possible to save it. If the cam towers are still in good condition, we can build up your worn journals with chrome plating and then grind them back to their proper size. If your cam towers are worn oversize or are out of round, the dealer can occasionally supply underzise cam towers and we will grind down your bearing journals to fit these towers.
Cheers,
-Brady
72 240Z w triples
and a bunch of 5 cylinder quattros

#54 PanzerAce

PanzerAce

    Used Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 735 posts
  • LocationMerced, CA

Posted 17 November 2009 - 01:40 PM

Mag, good news. Still on the road, but I'll message you in a bit
1973 240Z, 3.0L Rebello, "running them funny sideways triple deuces". Living and breathing again after almost a year in the shop. DEATH BY SUV, 5-16-2012 RIP.
1978 280Z Possible recipient of anything salvageable from the '73

#55 MAG58

MAG58

    Bawb Dawg

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 652 posts
  • LocationBloomington, IN

Posted 17 November 2009 - 07:12 PM

Excellent stuff. I emailed Colt, Elgin, and Delta. We'll see what they say!

I'm pretty excited to try and mock this beast up over turkey day.

Datsuns n' stuff. 


#56 MAG58

MAG58

    Bawb Dawg

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 652 posts
  • LocationBloomington, IN

Posted 19 November 2009 - 12:58 PM

Update: No response from delta yet, Elgin says I should stay with the stock cam...pfft.

I contacted Colt and recieved a response from the owner less than 24 hours later. A quick phone call states that he can take and inspect the cams free of charge and provide me with available profiles that I can grind the cams to. Given the 24 lobes he believes that the cost should be in the 4-500 dollar range which is substantially cheaper than the quotes I have been getting else where and less than half what a set from the fatherland would cost me.

Goeff (the owner) is a great person to deal with and since he's never dealt with them before, he'd be doing the work on them.

Great customer service, I'm happy to say. I'll probably be shipping him some cams in a few weeks to see what the prognosis will be ;)

Datsuns n' stuff. 


#57 motoman

motoman

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 162 posts
  • LocationAlbuquerque

Posted 29 November 2009 - 12:43 PM

So have you got the cams specs you want yet?

#58 MAG58

MAG58

    Bawb Dawg

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 652 posts
  • LocationBloomington, IN

Posted 03 December 2009 - 09:28 AM

As I kind of expected, I can pretty much get any grind I want to on the cams, there's plenty of meat as long as I can make up for the valvetrain geometry at some point (shouldn't be an issue with direct acting cams, relative to the more complex rocker type).

That said, I want to get the car running, and see what it's capable of in completely stock configuration. I figure if my car is gonna be the performance mule, might as well see what she'll do as she left the factory at Mercedes.

After we get the thing sorted, I'll probably send my spare head to BRAAP as money and time allows and allow the good folks at Colt Cams to go nuts. Then we'll see what I can get my 0-Mother of God time down to.

Datsuns n' stuff. 


#59 Turbo E320

Turbo E320

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • LocationJeffersonville, IN

Posted 14 December 2009 - 03:16 AM

Hey sorry for the late bump but I recognize that motor ;). I think you and I talked. If you want to solve your stroke problems, get C36 rods since the C36 has the same crank as a 350SD.

That's an interesting way to make a 3.2L with the first gen m104. Very cool.

Here's my 97 M104 ;)
Posted Image

#60 MAG58

MAG58

    Bawb Dawg

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 652 posts
  • LocationBloomington, IN

Posted 14 December 2009 - 08:58 AM

I believe we have talked as well. The hardest part for me is finding the C36 rods not attached to the rest of the C36. Luckily here in the corn belt E85 is plentiful and cheap So I'm going to see what a smaller displacement motor can make before I dump some stroke in it. Your W210 was already quick and a Z is just a fraction of that weight.

Have you got your other motor lined up yet? I never heard if you were going M113/M119/M120 :shock: or any of the new M2xx engines.

Datsuns n' stuff. 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users