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2.3l Turbo T/C SVO Motor


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Poll: 2.3L Poll (24 member(s) have cast votes)

2.3L Poll

  1. Voted Go for it! (34 votes [85.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 85.00%

  2. Dont do it! (5 votes [12.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.50%

  3. Other. (1 votes [2.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.50%

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#1 The Infidel

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 08:44 PM

A few people have suggested to me the 2.3L turbo motor from Ford that where in the Turbo Coupe's and the SVO's. I rode in one installed in a 510, and it was one of the most terrifying car I have been in. It wasnt the fastest car Ive driven, but by golly it moved!

From what Ive read, its a stout motor. Able to produce impressive numbers in stock trim. Even more impressive with some money thrown into it. Parts seem to be cheap and plentiful because of the SVO and dirt track racers keeping the aftermarket alive.

I wanted to turbo the car originally and when I looked into it, the l28et just wasnt cost effective for me. The money invested for the HP return just wasnt worth it in my honest opinion. But on the other hand I'd like to do something different instead of a typical small block. It seems from what I gathered, there has been a few attempts but only one forum member that has completed the 2.3l swap. Different and respectable horsepower. Thoughts?

#2 rat_ranger

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 12:27 AM

It shouldnt be too difficult, it is a stout motor and essliner makes alot of good parts. wiring would be easy as the diagrams and pin outs are easy to find. transmission choices are the m5odr1 from a ranger or a t5 with th 87-88 turbocoupe bellhousing.

it is a heavy 4cyl though. a 4.6mod motor weighs about 100lb less. the 87-88 manifold also flows the best. it is fairly tall though as well. by the time you hit the 300hp mark though itll have a decent investment in it. check out the forced inductiond forums at rangerpowersports.com/forum and therangerstation.com/forums.

#3 Gollum

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 12:44 AM

a 4.6mod motor weighs about 100lb less.


I would beg to see proof of this.

Not because I believe it's impossible, but because definitive weights are near impossible to find on the internet. We have pretty high standards around here when it comes to throwing weights around. We like to know what EXACTLY we're talking about (long block, w/alternator, flywheel, clutch, starter, etc)

I honestly do though, have a hard time seeing ANY iron 4 cylinder under 3 liters weighing more, if at all, than an all aluminum V8 over 4 liters. This has been well discussed and documented, that the weight is about a LOT more than the block material and/or the style of cylinder head. Unfortunately the internet is littered with people that make assumptions and tout them as fact.

Example - the 2.4 liter KA24E weighs in very close to the SR20DET. The SR can't muster the same displacement, but it's also got a turbo adding to the weight, plus it's a DOHC. The KA is a large iron block motor, and doesn't really see THAT much of a weight penalty from it.

I could also go on talking about how a 5.0 with aluminum cylinder heads and intake can weight less than a 4.6 mod motor, but that'd just be killing a dead horse now wouldn't it?

So, does the lima really weight in at 600+ pounds? I'd like to see that scale figure.

'75 280Z, L28ET, Street going rat rod

http://forums.hybrid...ms-dd-l28et-75/


#4 rat_ranger

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 05:20 AM

http://www.cardomain.../ride/2052265/2 I stand corrected stock for stock the 4.6 is 25lbs more. My memory failed me, but here is the correction. And before anyone brings up the 2.5 vs. 2.3 its a different crank, rods and pistons, same block and head.

IMO, for the cost of the swap and performance parts you could go with a more modern engine. I picked up a vq30det and a 350z 6speed for it for $1200 total, 280hp stock tune. even a maxima vq30de has good potential and availability with a readily available 6 speed for it.

#5 The Infidel

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 08:28 AM

V8intheZ noted that his 2.3 weighed 378Lbs with

Full long block-valve cover to oil pan
Full intake manifold with rail and injectors
Complete turbo and manifold
Air Meter
Starter
Alternator and bracket
-NO flywheel/flexplate or transmission

I'm on m iPhone at work and I don't have time to look up and post/compare weights between the SR20 or L6 Turbo. I'll get on it when I get home.

#6 Gollum

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 08:38 AM

The VQ and VG are good engines, but different strokes for different folks.

The allure of the ford lima is that you can get pretty high on the performance scale before it starts costing a lot of money. Sure you can get a 280hp VQ with transmission for under $1500, but performance upgrades that will truly net any serious gains are expensive. Turbo motors are almost always cheaper HP.

That being said I'd love a VQ or VG in my Z.

'75 280Z, L28ET, Street going rat rod

http://forums.hybrid...ms-dd-l28et-75/


#7 rat_ranger

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 08:55 AM

That is why I am starting with the VQ30DET, factory turbo. add biger injectors, nistune, and turn up the boost and its easily over 300. you can also pick up maxima headers and adapt them for around $200.

After having built a 2.3 turbo in a ranger, The newer VQ seemed a better choice. but check out the ranger forums for info as well as places like turboford.org. go into it fully educated as the info is easy to find.

#8 The Infidel

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 05:21 PM

L24.
Dry, No AC/PS, No FW/Clutch
362.8 lbs

SR20DET.
With aftermarket clutch, top mount exhaust manifold, external wastegate, cast pan, oil, and alternator.
349.8 LBS

Internet weights being what they are (even though Braaps weights i trust) take them with a grain of salt. I couldnt find a l28et with no transmission weight so I used a standard l24. The SR20 will be lighter than a Lima motor, but my guess is that the Lima is the same if not lighter than a L28et, but not by much.

#9 rat_ranger

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 06:10 PM

yeah, the lima is all cast iron, very strong but heavy

#10 Gollum

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 08:11 PM

It's probably safe to say the L28ET dry would be around 390-400 dry, which would be as much as 430 wet. The iron exhaust manifold + turbo is a good 20 pounds easy.

The upside is that the nissan tranny is super light for how much power it can hold, but we all know it's Russian roulette past 350hp.

'75 280Z, L28ET, Street going rat rod

http://forums.hybrid...ms-dd-l28et-75/


#11 The Infidel

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 07:46 PM

Well, I think Im going to put up my SBC parts up for sale. Hell even my q45 rear diff. I think Ill be fine with a ZX rear end. Going to bite the bullet and be different!

Unless a 383 falls into my lap magically ;)

#12 rat_ranger

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 04:43 AM

be sure to read up on the engine. there is alot of info out there. if you need it once I get back to the US I have one of the 87-88 hydraulic t5 bellhousings sitting around. I wont be back in the US till june at the soonest though.

#13 sweetleaf

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 09:23 AM

Why do you say the L28et isn't cost effective? You'll get more bang for the buck then you will with the 2.3? ford motor.

A few people have suggested to me the 2.3L turbo motor from Ford that where in the Turbo Coupe's and the SVO's. I rode in one installed in a 510, and it was one of the most terrifying car I have been in. It wasnt the fastest car Ive driven, but by golly it moved!

From what Ive read, its a stout motor. Able to produce impressive numbers in stock trim. Even more impressive with some money thrown into it. Parts seem to be cheap and plentiful because of the SVO and dirt track racers keeping the aftermarket alive.

I wanted to turbo the car originally and when I looked into it, the l28et just wasnt cost effective for me. The money invested for the HP return just wasnt worth it in my honest opinion. But on the other hand I'd like to do something different instead of a typical small block. It seems from what I gathered, there has been a few attempts but only one forum member that has completed the 2.3l swap. Different and respectable horsepower. Thoughts?



#14 The Infidel

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 09:48 AM

Compared to the 2.3L motor, yes. The Lima motors bottom end is a beefy cast iron block with forged internals thats balanced from the factory. Thus resulting in being able to handle large mounts of HP in stock form. The aftermarket is huge, because the motors are used in sprint cars and mini dirt classes racing. Also its a popular swap for personal sand rails.

Edited by The Infidel, 02 January 2010 - 09:49 AM.
spelling


#15 Bernardd

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 10:42 AM

How much power are you looking to make? A quick look at stinger performance and turboford.net doesn't give much evidence that the 2.3 (if that's the same block) is in anyway superior.

#16 rat_ranger

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 10:48 AM

you can get alot of power out of them. but there are tricks to it. a 98+ ranger crank with the right rods and pistons nets you a .2l gain. with a mustang talldeck block you can get them to 2.9. a volvo DOHC head can be fitted. but really anything over 300hp is ging to cost as much or more than sticking with the l28 or getting a vg or a vq. I think he is more after being different and still able to get decent power for not too much.

#17 Gollum

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 10:54 PM

Ok, so how many of you actual own a L28ET powered car? (I do)

Though the L28ET is cost effective, you should realize the limits. Here's the main drawbacks that come to mind:

PITA to work on for most things
Intake manifold is largely inadequate and aftermarket is pointless
Stock EFI is worthless once you've gained 33% more power than stock, and is barely good enough for stock driving in race conditions IMO.

The L28ET seems very cost effective if you completely forget about the EFI. Realistically megasquirt is your most affordable option, which can still end up setting you back $500 for just the box shipped to you assembled. Then you still need to get a wideband, which you need for any motor really, but adds considerable cost to any build.

(i'm considering a whole EFI transplant for my car)

Once you reach 300hp any improvements to the head will show good gains, showing a bottleneck, but headwork isn't cheap.

Once you reach 400hp a custom intake manifold will show good gains, but isn't cheap to have built, and very time consuming to make yourself.

And somewhere in the middle there you'll blow up your pistons if you accidentaly let the engine detonate a wee bit.

The L28ET is a great 300hp budget engine. Beyond that they're not budget.


Now, the lima from all that I've seen can make the same HP on stock internals that the L28ET can. So forget crank/block tricks to add cubes. Spend your money on EFI tuning and more boost. They're almost worthless blocks and when one blows up because you tuned it too lean you just go pick up another one. Just pray you don't loose your turbo with it. ;-)

'75 280Z, L28ET, Street going rat rod

http://forums.hybrid...ms-dd-l28et-75/


#18 Bernardd

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 09:06 AM

Gollum, my car is L28et powered. I would not bother with modifying anything other than the turbo and efi until 400whp. I use that # because that's how much my car has and it's been fine at that level for 8yrs. All the supporting mods are going to be required for both engines. The only difference between the two engines is one is a ford and requires the effort of a custom install. Which is a perfectly good reason to do a swap or not do one. Since the op hasn't replied with what he wants out of the setup we can't really help him out anyway.

#19 Gollum

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 10:31 AM

Gollum, my car is L28et powered. I would not bother with modifying anything other than the turbo and efi until 400whp. I use that # because that's how much my car has and it's been fine at that level for 8yrs. All the supporting mods are going to be required for both engines. The only difference between the two engines is one is a ford and requires the effort of a custom install. Which is a perfectly good reason to do a swap or not do one. Since the op hasn't replied with what he wants out of the setup we can't really help him out anyway.


Now you've gotten me curious though.

So, you're REALLY have ONLY modified the EFI and Turbo? You running 400 estimated crank, or wheel HP? Got a dyno sheet? I'd like to see the curve you're running.

I'm not trying to say you're lying, I want to believe you. I just want to hear the setup you used to get there since so many take different approaches. Personally, I wouldn't push the 400hp mark without an intercooler unless I was using water or meth injection. I also know that just the right cam combined with a well designed intake will make worlds of difference on these engines, which is a worthwhile investment.

Oh, and since the OP hasn't posted in this thread, he didn't go with a turbo ford swap. Nor did he go with a L28ET. I offered him one of my spare L28ET engines and he didn't take it. I won't share his secret on what he did go with though.

'75 280Z, L28ET, Street going rat rod

http://forums.hybrid...ms-dd-l28et-75/


#20 GrayZee

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 01:43 PM

I have 360whp, no dyno sheet but I consider trap speeds vs actual weight to be a more acurate dyno. My engine is a bone stock 83 L28et with Holset hy35 and upgraded Nissan electronics. I have been in Bernard's car, even driven it and it has alot more jam than my car does and it is heavier with a auto tapping more HP. I imagine if I used his larger turbo I could get up to 400 pretty easy. I don't think anyone ever mentioned NOT using a intercooler, isn't it practically implied if you are boosting for that kind of power, same way you pretty much NEED a wideband? I have a intercooler and Bernard has a massive one as well as meth injection. I am not sure where the limits of the stock engines are, it seems someone always manages to push it a little harder every year, but for now 400 is doable.
76 280z with stock 1983 L28et Holset Hy35 Chipped Nissan ecu. 440cc injectors 255lph Walboro internal fuel pump 3" SS mandrel exhaust 60mmTB. 38mm external wastegate, 20+psi?




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