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vega

Blow through turbo setups?

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It is what I was told by many motorcycle guys that dirt bike carbs had better throttle response is all. as far as getting the fi to be playable in the car aside from megasquirt which i took some time on their site as well as diy auto tune. and read a lot. I also have experience in tuning hondas and dsm cars with obd1 that for me is VERY simple just use chrome and there you go.

 

The best setup i have seen on here for fi is a member called 6shooter- he has switched to a gm computer and made his own crank trigger setup. To me making my own crank trigger is a bit iffy FOR ME. the thing i would do IF this would work is use the electronic distributor I have and get a signal from that to send to the ecu but I haven't a clue persay how that would work. If you have some insight on using the fi more than i do as far converting and old engine to newer style fi setup so it is easier to tune please enlighten me because from all the searching I have done I have found very little in this aspect to any kind of ease behind it. Because it comes down to this convert it to carbs or convert it to a newer style fi setup- at least as far as I can tell.

 

The other thing I am going to attempt is a t5 swap from the zx models for the strength in the trans with a short shifter kit.

 

Why don't you grab a turbo cas/oil pump drive and use a chipable nissan ecu. You can tuneable efi for under 300 bucks.

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With enough people out there pre-nisstune hacking the stock Hexidecimal EEPROM via romulator and prom burners, I'm surprised someone would come up with that kind of a comment.

 

Xnke is 100% correct, Nisstune gives you a Megasquirt-Like interface and the ability to burn the prom on-the-fly.

 

And you are correct, there is no 27 pin EEPROM. They all have even numbered legs...far as I know. Why would it have to be 27pin specific? By GM-Sense of the word I meant that GM puts a PROM-Holder on the ECU Board, allowing an EEPROM change in the field without exchanging the whole ECU. GM thought ahead. Ford chose to have a field flash programmer.

 

Now, everything is available through the OBD Port and is reburnable that way---CONSULT can do the same thing with Nissan Boxes. You don't NEED a replaceable chip to have a programmable EFI system on your OEM ECU. On the older stuff, it just made hacking the Hex easier by reading the files, changing values, and reburning/replacing the chip to see what changed.

 

But that was the stone age, Eh Gimli Boy? :P

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nistune is a daughter board i have SOME but little experience with it on the 240sx platform. 27 pin is what most manufacturers use with their obd1 system with their eprom chips so you can take that out and put in a zif socket and a burnable chip or chip emulator like the moates.net products.

 

From my understanding unless things have changed nistune is not available for my 1978 ecu. If it is or was i love nistune it works great!

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wow. all it takes to tune a carb is to turn a screw and adjust a float, maybe change a jet if you are mechanically inclined...lol!

What was I thinking reconfiguring every emulsion hole,jet,and bleed on my n/a carburetor? That's with an E, by the way. Blow through carburetion is an art as much as a science.

 

Some random considerations, admittedly my experience is dated.

You realize carbs need little psi but high volume. With A Holley, for example you'll want to keep the fuel pressure about 7 psi over the boost. 10 psi = 17 fuel pump psi. You'll also need a way to bleed the pressure off immediately when you are running full boost and then let off. Washing down the cylinders with over rich mixture, blowing the needle and seat, or worse yet hydro-locking the engine is ugly. Don't ask how I know. Most carbs can't handle high pressure at the needle and seat anyway. Not enough pressure and you make wiffle ball-like piston tops. Have a boost regulated regulator with return line. Questions: Can the carb body, float bowls be designed to handle boost. Will floats collapse? How about the fuel curve designed in the carb itself. There are many bleeds, emulsion holes, powervalves, venturi that are designed for n/a. Add boost and you've upset the equation. You do want to drive this other than WOT, right?

 

Check here for some basics: http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=f45d653824f89440d10d1d6663f3d4b7&board=13.0

When Innovate forums gets up and running again, check them out as well. http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/

Beyond the blatant naivete, your idea sounds really cool. I hope you can pull it off.

Edited by John Scott

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nistune is a daughter board i have SOME but little experience with it on the 240sx platform. 27 pin is what most manufacturers use with their obd1 system with their eprom chips so you can take that out and put in a zif socket and a burnable chip or chip emulator like the moates.net products.

 

From my understanding unless things have changed nistune is not available for my 1978 ecu. If it is or was i love nistune it works great!

 

Check out the sticky about the z31 ecm swap.

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Wow, so the criteria for the turbo swap is you wish to retain your 78 ECU now? Wish that was stated earlier.

 

Like it was said before, you need to read some more. Especially about your R200 which you don't think can handle the torque of the V8...

 

As was stated, this is all well-covered previously.

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no that is NOT the criteria of the swap.... that makes no sense. My point was that nistune is not available for these the 280z ecu- one would have to- as previously stated swap to a z31 ecu. OR one could just swap to a gm ecu. I will NOT be retaining my stock ecu when the car is modified for any reason.

 

As for the r200 I don't think it can handle the tq of a low revving v8 without too much stress if the tires actually hook as I am working on the suspension to do so- I am not building a drift car where it doesn't matter. Now a higher revving v8 which the peak tq gradually comes in and toward the higher end of the tq curve I think it can handle. I just don't think the amount of hp I am looking for at that kind of rpm is plausible in a v8. I want about 7-8k rpm in the v8 so a 327 or smaller preferably a 302 which good luck there so either build a 283 or a 327 or a 327 small journal with a 283 crank (FORGED crank btw because anything past 5600 rpm is going to be too hard on a cast crank. So now JUST for a descent forged crank new we are talking about 1100 or so. Now lets make it rev even higher - lets just use a 283 with some great heads- well from my understanding (I could be wrong- I was told this by a builder) there is something about how small the pistons are in a 283 that are great for higher revving but have a hard time making hp because of the size of the head options available- which for my goals are going to make that a very expensive build. I have gone through and blue printed the price on engine builds and the like it seems that we are talking about 6 or 8 grand for the kind of power I would want out of a v8 where the kind of power of a supercharged or turbocharged l28 is a bit more attainable. Now if it was a low revving motor this would be WAY cheaper- but I just don't think that is a good idea from what I have read, my own personal experiences, and from talking to people in REAL life rather than just online. I hope that clears things up a bit- you come off a bit standoffish.

 

I am currently talking it over with a friend of mine about using the stock dissy with a gm ecu- seeing that it has a 6 tooth magnetic pickup design a gm ecu can read that kind of signal without using a crank trigger- THAT will basically BE the crank trigger. Which is pretty much how the ecu is already setup in this car, except that it does not have the far tunablity as the gm ecu i.e. using the moates ostrich real time chip emulator and chrome. What I need to figure out is if I NEED to use a gm icm or not. That part is what escapes me at this point.

Edited by vega

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It is funny how this subject is rehashed over and over. Tony D always tries to set the record straight on the drawbacks of blow through carbs and to use EFI. There is no one that I know of who has as much experience with blow through set ups on Zs. For myself I will probably get my blow through supercharged running one of these years and learn the hard way that I should have just used the triples normally aspirated. But what the heck, some of us are just too hard headed to listen to the experts on the subject and can only learn by our own mistakes.

Edited by SHO-Z

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As for the r200 I don't think it can handle the tq of a low revving v8 without too much stress if the tires actually hook as I am working on the suspension to do so- I am not building a drift car where it doesn't matter.

You may break halfshafts but I think it's proven that the R200 is strong enough for most people.

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/72292-r200-durability-can-it-handle-400hp/page__p__686923__hl__%2Br200+%2Bhorsepower__fromsearch__1#entry686923

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"no that is NOT the criteria of the swap.... that makes no sense. My point was that nistune is not available for these the 280z ecu- one would have to- as previously stated swap to a z31 ecu. OR one could just swap to a gm ecu. I will NOT be retaining my stock ecu when the car is modified for any reason. "

 

Then why did you mention it in the first place? I said Nisstune, you said 'Nistune don't work on my stock ECU'---ergo, You can't use Nisstune, inferring a dependence on the 78 ECU. I don't see why you mentioned it other than to make a non-sequitur in this instance...the whole flow of the conversation has already at that point obviated a different ECU, ALL of which (Nissan Based) will work with Nisstune. That you want to parse the meaning of the installation is beside the point (daughterboard allowing on-the fly burns and changes as opposed to physical chip burning outside of the case after hexidecimal hacking....) (I guess)

 

As for that spooner attitude on the R200, since nobody has posted the obvious and he mentions 'wheels hooking'...:

post-380-073437700 1282253378_thumb.jpg

Edited by Tony D

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well I am looking for about 350-400 crank hp.

 

I have seen that picture before I was told that it was not an r200 in that pic. Also proven force a the major diff builder up here in mn told me that 400 tq is about max those diffs can take before they start breaking- now I can't remember if it was wtq or crank but all the same. Also he was the one that told me how the diff is affected with different rpm levels etc. he (mike- his last name escapes me) has been doing the diff thing for 30 plus years.

 

What is a spooner attitude btw? I have not heard that phrase before-

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You may break halfshafts but I think it's proven that the R200 is strong enough for most people.

http://forums.hybrid...__1#entry686923

 

that is a great link- i hope all the people there are telling the truth if that is true then that is great- what are these 10 second z's doing for maintenance and what kind of oil in their diffs?

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well I am looking for about 350-400 crank hp.

 

I have seen that picture before I was told that it was not an r200 in that pic. Also proven force a the major diff builder up here in mn told me that 400 tq is about max those diffs can take before they start breaking- now I can't remember if it was wtq or crank but all the same. Also he was the one that told me how the diff is affected with different rpm levels etc. he (mike- his last name escapes me) has been doing the diff thing for 30 plus years.

 

What is a spooner attitude btw? I have not heard that phrase before-

 

Thanks for the tip. I'll stay away from Proven Force if I have to get something rebuilt.

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