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seattlejester

seattlejester's 1971 240Z

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Just priced everything out for the fuel cell.

130$ for fittings and lines.

120$ for fuel pump and reusable filter.

200$ for fuel cell and and straps.

Reusing material I purchased earlier for material to build box, cover, and braces.

 

Total 450$. And that is my entire budget I have at the moment, lol.

 

To run the stock fuel tank.

150$ max for fuel tank.

65$ for fuel pump and disposable filter.

55$ for fittings and hoses.

 

Looking at 270$, still hurting and that's just a patch job to hold me over, lol.

 

Question for ya folk, I've read through the FSM, stared at my carbs and still not quite sure.

How does the fuel return line work? Do the carbs have 2 fittings like a vertical sump? From looking at the stock fuel rail, it looks like there's only 1 inlet for each carb and then the fuel rail just turns back around and runs back to the tank. If the float is full does the pressure just prevent the fuel from flowing into the carbs?

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joa_taste    0

That is a big difference, but why not just do it right the first time so your not spending more money later on?

both routes seem like they have their pro's and con's

idk though, the cell already comes with a sump

but in turn the oem fuel tank is cheaper

Another guy on here is talking about having to have it boiled out (the tank) and that's like 180 and itll be just about brand new

 

Have you by chance heard of the camaro ls1 fuel tank upgrade?

Edited by joa_taste

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Haven't read that thread yet, but I think I'm about to explode with fuel information overload!

 

That's kind of what I figure and am starting to lean towards. This whole build has shifted from just "get 'er running" to "do it right the first time." And I'd definitely like to avoid the fume issue.

 

Pre-post edit: So as of 3:24AM this morning I think I have decided on a fuel cell (or at least that's what I'm telling myself so I can get some sleep). Somewhere between 12-16 gallon, with a sender unit, not sure on my stance regarding the foam filling.

 

Plan is to go tomorrow and measure absolutely everything I need, as well as clean up all the areas that will be cut, etc.

I think I'll try to keep part of the tire well so I can protect the cell from the elements, random bits of rock, etc. Then make the cell flush with the rear floor and put a hinged plate over all of that.

Since I only have tubing, I'll have to order some box steel to mount the tank and build supports with.

 

Maybe I'll run disposable filters, a cheaper fuel pump, and nylon lines to save a bit of money for the time being, but that's just my brain trying to rationalize, lol.

 

On a side not, I just ordered the little tube holding clamps to run my brakes, so hopefully that'll be the next project I tackle while awaiting my fuel cell.

Edited by seattlejester

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joa_taste    0

Lol same here, Im in the middle of a sr swap and I was starting my build as a budget friendly, get what i need to get the car running and thats it..Im still going along those guide lines but I find myself watching a whole load of stuff on ebay but the fuel cell is probably gonna be the route i go, it seems so much easier to cut a small part of the well out for the sump to sit out, like you said it'll be safe from all the debrees and rocks. Only down side is the stock filler but im not really upset about that.

Im going with a 12 gal plastic sumpd cell, and walbro 255 from summit racing, i think nylon lines is the way to go also, i just heard that trying to bend the fuel lines is a pain...A WAY CHEAPER PAIN THOUGH lol

 

actually lol

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/plumbing/plumbing-tools/klein-tools/professional-4-in-1-tube-bender-41569.html

Edited by joa_taste

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Harborfreight mate, same tool about 1/3 the price, have one in the garage actually :D

 

Foam or no foam? I still have a day or two to decide.

 

Foam is not filter friendly if it starts breaking up, but in turn prevents sloshing.

No foam is very sloshy, but no foam to worry about.

 

Decisions decisions...

 

Onto todays work, I do have to apologize for the crummy pictures, I tried lengthening exposure and using a work light, but the end result was bright blury pictures. Maybe best to view them as the thumbnails.

 

The lovely piece of the dogleg. Looked solid, but a little bit or wire brushing showed otherwise.

P1030242.jpg

P1030241.jpg

Wish I had taken A picture before I had put in the first patch, but alas.

P1030240.jpg

My advice is don't be shy about cutting out rusted metal. It took me a few months and trial and error to learn that, but cut everything out you don't trust. A surgeon never leaves in part of a tumor just because. While it may be easier to cut out easy to trace shapes, a little ingenuity can make anything.

P1030243.jpg

P1030244.jpg

And test fit as many times as you can, I always like to cut a little bit larger and trim it down for a very nice fit.

P1030246.jpg

Then weld the pieces in.

P1030247.jpg

P1030249.jpg

Almost done :).

 

And for anyone attempting patch repairs go slow! I ended up warping my floors a bit because I was too inpatient.

So while I waited for the panel to cool, I filled in the door ajar switch holes. The switches had rusted and cracked. And I'm sure I know when the doors are open, haha.

 

Another thing I spent some time on was...

P1030252.jpg

The holes were easy enough to drill, but I'm not sure how to go about making the large 2 inch hole for the center. I only had access to a plasma cutter for a day (the reason for the rough edges) and the 2 inch hole saw did pretty much nothing.

Edited by seattlejester

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Must do a bit more research on that front, sloshing fuel doesn't sound like fun :P.

 

Now just pulled the fuel line off my carb, it says 1/4 inch, both feeding into the fuel rail and out from the fuel rail and from the rail to the carb. So would it be advisable to run a 1/4 line from the fuel cell all the way to the rail? I figure it's a choke point at the fuel rail, and as such, there's no need to run a 3/8th line just to be choked up at the fuel line. Or am I really confused in my fueling system?

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Ordered everything, hurting my wallet before the week even starts :( .

 

75$ for 14 ft of 1 inch square tubing and 21 sq ft of 18 gauge sheet metal.

170$ for a foamless 16 gallon fuel cell.

35$ for AN fittings.

25$ for a spool of Fuel Line.

 

Waiting on 2 more fittings and the decision on which Facet fuel pump to run, giving pegasus a call in the morning.

 

Hopefully my last big expenditure until the weather stripping and front air dam.

 

Front 2/3 of car is ready to be sealed, primered, and painted. Just the rear 1/3 to go!

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For 40$ you can't go wrong :rolleyes: , in all honesty it's kept me out of a few harry situations, it has balls of melted steel inbedded in the face shield and I melted through the mouth portion when I leaned against my roll bar mount, still works like a champ.

 

Problems for the day:

Can't find a way to drill a 2 inch hole for the strut tower plates, the hole saw is just skipping along the surface, and grinding it out with a dremel bit just sounds awful, any suggestions?

Not sure about the curvature of the dog leg-rear fender area. Can someone take a picture with a ruler in the rear fender to show how much the dogleg sticks out? I've been eyeing a few local 240's and am tempted to just walk up and ask some strangers.

 

Plans for the week (whoever keeps these :D) :

Weather is suppose to be decent for the next 3 days, so I'll spend tonight sifting sand for the blaster, cosmetic grinding, paint prep, and draw up my fuel cell box.

Tomorrow I'll double check all the welds to make sure they are complete, and cut out the rear spare tire, attach box, sand blast, and put down primer and sealant on the new bare metal.

Friday I'll finish the fuel cell box and spray the interior with color.

Let everything dry over the weekend, undisturbed, than start the installs!

 

Future to do list:

Install all lines for fuel.

Install all lines for brakes.

Install new suspension.

Install new brakes.

Figure out how to undo the tie rods from the steering rack.

Install steering rack.

Weld differential.

Change gear oil in diff and tranny.

Install rear diff.

Paint prep and fit doors and hatch.

Install weather kit and rest of body.

Make new fuse box and wiring for essentials and accessories.

Rebuild engine.

Replace clutch and resurface or replace flywheel.

Mount transmission on engine.

Install driveline.

 

 

Trouble shoot what goes wrong.

 

Need to finish in 3 months, wish me luck!

Edited by seattlejester

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Pharaohabq    13

Hey Seattle...

 

Oh that 2" hole saw, is it skipping around because there's no center point to hold it in place? If that's the case you can screw a piece of wood behind the plate to give the saw something to center on. Aside from that you can use your angle grinder to cut a notch for the edge of the saw to seat into. then maybe it'll bite and you can cut. What kind of hole saw do you have? The carbide ones are pretty good for metal.

 

Looks like you've done a lot of work, but that you still have a lot to do. Gotta give props to you for being brave enough to paint it yourself.

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Oh, cutting an edge for it isn't a bad idea at all.

 

It's a bi-metal hole saw with a center pilot bit. Maybe I should be looking into a carbide one, it worked great on he 2 inch steel tubing, but on something flat it's giving me a bit of trouble, but I have ideas now, thanks!

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So I'm stuck and I need some advice.

 

Terminology I will be using:

Cross bar: the bars that go across the rear frame that will support the box and fuel cell.

Box: the steel box that houses the fuel cell.

Fuel cell: the fuel cell itself.

 

The fuel cell arrived, and I'm almost done making the box for it. I welded the cross bars to the box, the reasoning was since my box only comes up to the very top, I thought I could use the cross bars as a flange to mount the top of the box. The box is big enough that the cell slides in and out pretty easily, but after the top goes on, and the cross bars are welded to the rear frame, my only access to the actual cell is the hole where the spare tire well was, and the fuel cell will sit off center.

 

Picture below to illustrate the problem, but unlike this wise gentleman, I welded the cross bars to the box.

borrowed from gmac708

3-27-10018.jpg

 

Looks like I have few choices, at this time, I'm not quite sure which route to take:

 

1. Don't worry about it and just move on, weld slowly to dissipate heat. If I need to service it in the future, drain the tank than cut the cross bars <-doesn't seem like a great idea if fuel cells need service often, and will put a bit of heat into the fuel cell.

 

2. Cut the rear floor into a square so I can pull out or put the cell in after all the welding is done (this would take care of the concern of melting the cell), then make an additional square panel <-since the rear floor isn't flat, this may prove to be very difficult/time consuming.

 

3. Cut the bars off, find a way to finish the box in it's own entirety, then make straps that will bolt the box onto the subframe <-the bars are almost completely welded on, will be very time consuming.

 

4. Weld mounts onto the rear sub frame, and bolt the cross bars into the mount <-this would work, but the mounts would have to be very thick and fairly wide, and since the tubing is small, I would have to find a sweet spot for a bolt that is wide enough to support the weight of a fully loaded cell, while being skinny enough not to compromise the cross bar walls.

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I found out yesterday, for the amount I spent, I could have just purchased a baffled aluminum cell and had a very very easy install, but I suppose I wouldn't have had the experiences I had. Just like I could have gone and borrowed a friend's bead roller (saved myself time and money), but instead I hammered the box into shape.

 

Anyways, I decided to go with the 4th option.

4 L-shaped mounts with bolts running through the mount to a welded nut on top of the fuel cell box.

 

I measured everything out at least 3 times, then started mounting them but somehow I was ridiculously off on some fronts, rechecked to make sure my box was relatively square and all my measurements remain the same still was off by a good inch or so in one direction and another 1/2 inch in another. I suspect that the rear subframe may not be equivalent on both sides, or I have some strange dyslexia when it comes to reading my tape measure :unsure: .

 

I'll have to tackle that issue tomorrow, full 5-6 hour day planned tomorrow:

*Complete a pass over the car, grind down abnormally high welds, fill in any pin holes, sand away rubber/glue residue, chip off burnt under coat, etc.

*Clean the ridiculously messy garage, and setup tarps.

*Tac'ing and finishing the other two mounts.

*Making the spare tire cover and the pass through for fuel filler access.

*Figuring out a method to cap the sump area.

*Wiping clean the mount areas, then spraying them with undercoat.

 

Bought a bearing puller and strut spring compressor so I'll start tackling the struts if time permits. Everything to mount my brakes have arrived, so I'm just left with having to decide if I will rebuild the parking cable or if I will attempt the cable less life.

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Update time :).

 

If anyone was curious, a little info about sheen from what I've found and seen:

 

Flat > Matte > Satin > Gloss

Flat---------------------------Shiny

 

Flat has that cool effect of emptyness, where it doesn't reflect light very well and gives a type of void like feeling, unfortunately it is really rough and a touch with a dirty glove will leave a dark smudge that's really hard to get rid of (guess how I know :D).

 

So I decided the color of the car will be satin white, I was expecting quite a reflective shine, but it turned out pretty much exactly how I wanted.

P1030259.jpg

Flat white for comparison.

P1030126.jpg

 

Body work:

Since this is out here...

P1030258.jpg

Then it means it's no longer here!

P1030257.jpg

Friend came over and popped out this neat little cover.

P1030256.jpg

Made the fuel cell shield, not bad for just a hammer, but there is a definite presence of warpage.

P1030264.jpg

I tried to be smart and save my self some welding by folding up the sides of the box...

P1030255.jpg

Unfortunately that was a foolish attempt, especially without a bead roller, I really should learn to be patient, so here's the reattempt.

P1030265.jpg

With the appropriate lid. Still working out how I'm going to attach it and make it vapor proof (there will be an external vent line so no worries about implosions).

P1030266.jpg

Had a really hard time mounting the box back up since the holes no longer lined up (about 4 hours of work), the way I made it the first time was bolting the mounts up to the box then welding it in. Seems like warpage is not a myth >.<.

 

Suspension work:

Decided I would start finishing up some suspension pieces.

Sandblasted a few pieces.

P1030262.jpg

Then applied some hammered paint.

P1030260.jpg

Bought this little beauty for 90$. So decided I would have at trying to press the LCA bushings out.

P1030261.jpg

Uunfortunately the way the LCA is shaped it makes it really really difficult to push the bushing out. I ended up pushing it out part way, then heating it up, then using the sawzall to cut the bushing and hammering it out, unfortunately, one side did not make it out intact.

P1030263.jpg

^I ended up cutting out the crushed bits, then welding in some replacements. Then finished the hole thing off by boxing the LCA, the metal had been hammered to the point hwere I wanted some additional reinforcement.

P1030268.jpg

Finally finished it off with a coat of gold.

P1030267.jpg

Edited by seattlejester

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So....

 

Yesterday I was planning on finishing up the box and fit everything for the first time, including the actual cell. Turned out my friend had made the perfect template...1 inch off (making it ever so small to encompass the vent line). After a good laugh I told him to fix his error, and as a good sport he did :).

 

Have a little more grinding and welding to do, pictures soon!

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I was discussing my color choice with my sister, and mentioned how it took me a while to differentiate between the sheen of a color, to which she asked "why didn't you ask?" Turns out sheen is an elementary part of learning how to apply eye shadow? So almost any female could have explained the difference in a matter of a few seconds. Power of conversation eh?

 

Started having trouble with welding upside down again. I swear it just depends on the mood/day for the welder. Since it is sealed from the top, and I do recognize the potential of warping all to well now, I think I will just use seam sealer on the bottom under the undercoat. I'll give it one last shot and if it doesn't cooperate I'll silence the overkill demon and just move on.

 

Most of the parts I wanted welded was welded. Including the spare tire cover, heater block off plates, door ajar holes, some pin holes here and there, the old exhaust hangers (they had ripped out and left holes), the gaps from the bumper delete when I was using a harbor frieght welder (lesson learned :lol: ).

 

The spare tire panel was a bit flimsy, so I decided to add a few braces, and somehow, form followed function.

P1030296.jpg

It's still a bit flimsy, need to figure out a stronger brace pattern. Or just not put heavy things in the back.

 

The PO had started a shaved rear by deleting the bumper mounting points on the side, antenna hole, etc etc. It had looked like he had welded one of the screw holes for the rear courtesy lights, so I decided I would just finish instead of trying to cut out the weld, after finishing up the driver,

P1030290.jpg

P1030291.jpg

I moved to the passenger side and started wire brushing to clean off what I thought was paint...

P1030292.jpg

P1030295.jpg

I was greeted by 1/4 inch or thicker bondo! Now to the PO's defense, he did a very good job (smooth finish, applied over primer and paint, then sealed with another coat of primer) up to the point where I hadn't noticed till now, so the question is how far do I chase the rabbit down it's hole? The inside of the panel looks smooth save for a small dent, so I have no idea why he had to cover such a large area with such a sizable amount...this isn't the only area I suspect either, the driver rear corner has another sizable portion, and where the rear bumper was deleted, I can't imagine the rear side bumper deletes were accomplished without bondo either.

 

Things I thought I didn't have:

Rusted out floors

Rusted battery tray area

Rusted frame rail

Bad dog legs

Broken radiator

1/4 inch or thicker bondo

Botched repair at one point or another

 

Things I have...or at least I haven't disproved yet:

Good fenders

Good doors

Solid rear hatch area

Solid rear hatch

Solid hood

 

If a few more things move to the bad list, I think I may have all the problems most Z-buyers should avoid :lol: .

 

Once again thinking a bit far ahead...but since I'm already going down that train of thought, how are people putting up without using a heater? I've been told that a few small fans will keep the windows from fogging up, but a little search didn't come up with how people have them mounted.

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Two80z4me    2

Hey, good work going on! If you need any parts I might just have them. Have a parts 240z and a huge bin full of 280z engine parts from when i swapped to turbo.

Also, let me know how welding the differential goes, I want to do the same but I live up north in mukilteo and the rain is kinda heavier up here, still want to weld the diff though.

 

Keep on working though!

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Thanks, and I may take you up on the offer, finally putting the car together!

 

I figure I can keep an open diff for the winter and swap in the welded one near summer, the RT mount makes it a super quick affair.

 

And if you'd like a welded diff, I'm sure I have one to spare haha.

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Two80z4me    2

Thanks, and I may take you up on the offer, finally putting the car together!

 

I figure I can keep an open diff for the winter and swap in the welded one near summer, the RT mount makes it a super quick affair.

 

And if you'd like a welded diff, I'm sure I have one to spare haha.

 

 

Well, I need to do the rear diff mount bushings and diff seal as well as the RT mount once the turbo's up again. So while I'm there I see no reason not to put in the welded diff haha

I can deal with a little tire screech and crappy turning radius for better traction.

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I'd love to check the car out when it's running again, I've only had 1 ride in one haha.

 

I'm of the same thought, and some of the more aggressive lsd's still screech the tires, and some of this hills I make turns on lift one or more wheels off the ground so it's turning into more of a must. I'm fortunate/unfortunate enough to have everything off the car so I'll stick the welded diff in along with all the bushings on the first go. Still on the fence about the spindle pin and sub axle though.

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Two80z4me    2

I'd love to check the car out when it's running again, I've only had 1 ride in one haha.

 

I'm of the same thought, and some of the more aggressive lsd's still screech the tires, and some of this hills I make turns on lift one or more wheels off the ground so it's turning into more of a must. I'm fortunate/unfortunate enough to have everything off the car so I'll stick the welded diff in along with all the bushings on the first go. Still on the fence about the spindle pin and sub axle though.

 

 

yeah, I definitely want to get the diff welded on my R200. I used to have a LSD carrier when I got it but it was all sheered out to sh*t so I had the PO just put in the Open R200 before I picked it up.

I'd like to start going back up to evergreen drift days in it (rather taboo for a z to drift, but I do track racing to)

 

The mustache bar bushings are painfully simple to do but just time consuming to get all the stuff off to do it, should've done it when I re did all the u-joints.

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