Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

The importance of proper grammer.


  • Please log in to reply
48 replies to this topic

#21 ShaggyZ

ShaggyZ

    Terminator

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 556 posts
  • LocationAustin

Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:23 AM

The original example was incorrect. To assist your Uncle Jack in his effort to dismount from his horse, one should say:

"To help your Uncle Jack off of his horse"

The salient point is not the comma but the extra preposition, "of".

The original example was not incorrect, but it did still sound bad. You don't need two prepositions in a row. Would it be wrong to say "Help me off the horse?"

It's like the overuse of "that." People use it to make statements clear even though it often results in grammatically incorrect sentences.

Edited by ShaggyZ, 27 December 2010 - 09:23 AM.

'77 280Z waiting on an eligible heart transplant
'03 SV650S racebike

#22 Michael

Michael

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 680 posts
  • LocationSW Ohio

Posted 31 December 2010 - 11:52 AM

Shaggy (and everyone),

You’re quite right that commonly-accepted usage is not necessarily the grammatically correct usage. In colloquial speech we prefer brevity and simplicity over strict rigor. There are cases where two consecutive prepositions are required, but in common usage they tend to be omitted. Another common error is expunging the infinitive, “to be”. Example: “Do you need your rug vacuumed?”, instead of “Do you need your rug to be vacuumed?” The former is incorrect.

I mention this not to be abrasively pedantic, but to point out that (1) some level of ambiguity is unavoidable in written communication, and (2) unflinching enforcement of the rules of English (such as in an internet forum, hint hint....) is ultimately futile and self-defeating.

#23 cygnusx1

cygnusx1

    SID

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3838 posts
  • LocationHudson Valley, NY

Posted 31 December 2010 - 12:03 PM

One of my favorite reference books is "Basic English Revisited". It makes a great toilet book, and is great for settling arguments over improper "grammer". Every US home should come with a copy. ;-)

http://www.goodreads...glish_Revisited

Edited by cygnusx1, 31 December 2010 - 12:06 PM.


#24 BRAAP

BRAAP

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 4166 posts
  • LocationOregon

Posted 03 January 2011 - 04:05 PM

I for one am not one to be critical of others grammar, my wife is always picking my writing apart, though I am critical of laziness. Not capitalizing or punctuating or using IM text shortcuts comes across as selfish and lazy.
We maintain this forum with regard, a little bit of dignity. We're not elite, far from it actually, but is it too much to ask that member communicate in a semi professional manner, not sound look like a bunch mall rats? Were not asking for college level grammar here, just capitalize the beginning of sentences, punctuate the end of those sentences, perform a basic proofread for gross spelling errors if your prone to poor spelling, and don't use IM text short cuts. B)

#25 Tony D

Tony D

    Wiki D

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9944 posts
  • LocationReno NV & Lucena Quezon, Philippines

Posted 03 January 2011 - 04:07 PM

New rule for the forum:"Please do not be offended if people offering replies to your poorly constructed post expend as much time on their reply as you did composing it."
Misanthropic Anthroparion Class 5 Hoarder, aspiring to posthumous fame as my containers are cut open and the market floods with crap I've squirrelled away over the years! I endeavour to persevere...

#26 RTz

RTz

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 3008 posts
  • LocationOregon

Posted 03 January 2011 - 05:53 PM

...(2) unflinching enforcement of the rules of English (such as in an internet forum, hint hint....) is ultimately futile and self-defeating.


I agree with you, at least in absolute terms. To be clear, no staff member expects perfection... simply effort. Effort to be 'legible'. If you have to re-read a post 3 times and you're still lost, or you can't read it once without reaching for the Mylanta, there is a problem. Nine times out of ten it's directly related to laziness and lack of respect for the group. That's where we get cranky. If you can't muster the effort to write a readable sentence, how on earth do you expect to rummage the effort it takes to build a car? Tony is correct... garbage begets garbage.
Regards, Ron

HybridZ; Some diligence required.

#27 Gollum

Gollum

    Tree Killer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2922 posts
  • LocationVacaville, CA

Posted 05 January 2011 - 06:48 PM

I agree with you, at least in absolute terms. To be clear, no staff member expects perfection... simply effort. Effort to be 'legible'. If you have to re-read a post 3 times and you're still lost, or you can't read it once without reaching for the Mylanta, there is a problem. Nine times out of ten it's directly related to laziness and lack of respect for the group. That's where we get cranky. If you can't muster the effort to write a readable sentence, how on earth do you expect to rummage the effort it takes to build a car? Tony is correct... garbage begets garbage.


Yea, you know it's a serious lack of effort when someone born and raised in the USA can't form a sentence better than most of the FOREIGN members we have on the boards... In all seriousness, how are there people who speak English as a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th language, whom obviously don't have a firm grasp on our grammar, that can still be better understood than one born in this country?

'75 280Z, L28ET, Street going rat rod

http://forums.hybrid...ms-dd-l28et-75/


#28 RTz

RTz

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 3008 posts
  • LocationOregon

Posted 05 January 2011 - 09:27 PM


In all seriousness, how are there people who speak English as a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th language, whom obviously don't have a firm grasp on our grammar, that can still be better understood than one born in this country?



I would say that foreigners do, in many cases, understand our grammar better. One of my closer friends is not native English. He could rip my grammar to pieces if he wished. It's a social problem, not a geography problem.
Regards, Ron

HybridZ; Some diligence required.

#29 ShaggyZ

ShaggyZ

    Terminator

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 556 posts
  • LocationAustin

Posted 06 January 2011 - 07:15 AM

I have better spanish grammar than most of the Mexicans around here in Austin. In spoken word, it would sure sound funny and almost be hard to understand. I only took 3yrs of Spanish in high school.

Edited by ShaggyZ, 06 January 2011 - 07:15 AM.

'77 280Z waiting on an eligible heart transplant
'03 SV650S racebike

#30 bradyzq

bradyzq

    HybridZ Supporter

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 228 posts
  • LocationMontreal, Quebec, Canada

Posted 18 January 2011 - 09:37 AM

So, is your uncle trying to dismount from the horse, pleasure it, or kill it?

The most common example is the panda example.

Eats shoots and leaves.

or

Eats, shoots, and leaves.

Edited by bradyzq, 18 January 2011 - 09:38 AM.

Cheers,
-Brady
72 240Z w triples
and a bunch of 5 cylinder quattros

#31 Dee

Dee

    Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 54 posts
  • LocationOntario, CA

Posted 26 February 2011 - 04:48 PM

This has got to be the funniest example here! haha :lol:

And what about commas?
That whole scenario has to do with the comma!

Help your Uncle Jack, off a horse.
vs.
Help your Uncle Jack off a horse.


Also,

Posted Image

edit: Dang you for beating me Mario!


1978 Datsun 280Z | SBC 350 + TH400 | Edelbrock Intake + 600cfm Carb

"Happiness isn't around the corner, happiness is the corner"
Untitled 1

 


#32 palladin

palladin

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts
  • LocationChattanooga TN

Posted 08 January 2012 - 12:51 PM

Help your Uncle Jack, off a horse........a comma is not proper there.

But I must commend you for bringing this up. When you look at some of the idiotic posts we read from people who cannot communicate simply because they did not pay attention in school. "...When am I going to use this?..."

Well, I don't know, but are you going to limit yourself so early in your life. I taught math. I got so tired of getting 9th graders who did not know their multiplication tables. As an additional bonus...we allow these people to vote. You should have to pass a test.

#33 8DC

8DC

    Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 66 posts
  • LocationBad Axe, MI USA

Posted 20 June 2012 - 09:56 AM

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

:unsure:

#34 nacitar

nacitar

    Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 60 posts
  • LocationMississippi

Posted 06 September 2013 - 01:10 PM

Grammar.

This.



#35 Tony D

Tony D

    Wiki D

  • Donating Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9944 posts
  • LocationReno NV & Lucena Quezon, Philippines

Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:19 PM

It's the editorial page of Financial Times... Where editors APOLOGISE for improper use of proper English.

Their readers enforce a high standard, and the Editors must bow to the will of the readership.
Misanthropic Anthroparion Class 5 Hoarder, aspiring to posthumous fame as my containers are cut open and the market floods with crap I've squirrelled away over the years! I endeavour to persevere...

#36 woldson

woldson

    Sputnik

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1794 posts
  • LocationSpokane wa.

Posted 20 April 2014 - 07:03 PM

Test... (btw,, if I did remember name and pass.. HOWDY ALL AGAIN!)

#37 woldson

woldson

    Sputnik

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1794 posts
  • LocationSpokane wa.

Posted 20 April 2014 - 07:05 PM

COOL! BTW,, Tony D? Braap? (ive forgotten a few) I missed this site,, and no,,, still have kids and work is limited on my z. :-[

#38 psdenno

psdenno

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 201 posts
  • LocationSoCal Desert

Posted 20 April 2014 - 08:12 PM

So, there you go. Capitalization errors, comma errors, IM text shortcuts, and incorrect spelling squeezed into the last two messages. Way to revitalize this resting thread!
Dennis
1971 240Z Original Owner

#39 hwvigo

hwvigo

    Always Here

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 199 posts
  • LocationBroken Arrow OK

Posted 16 July 2014 - 01:47 PM

 Just watched this and it  seemed like it should here.

 

 


Edited by hwvigo, 16 July 2014 - 01:50 PM.

Sometimes in life rolling with the punches is the only way to get through it. The same goes for us lovers of old cars. We take what comes at us and try to make the best out of it. 

 


#40 psdenno

psdenno

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 201 posts
  • LocationSoCal Desert

Posted 16 July 2014 - 03:30 PM

Perfect!
Dennis
1971 240Z Original Owner




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users