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yellowoctupus

460ZGT Project Build

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stsmark    0

Most excellent work so far.  I'm guessing this is  your write-up:  http://community.ratsun.net/topic/54796-1974-260z-46dohc/

 

Couple of things to note, the Mark 8 headers are nice because you can 'work' (cut/weld) them for better exit angles to get around frame rails, steering and what not.  Wish I had that option when I dealt with exhaust and my stupid cast manifolds. 

 

Make sure you have the master cylinder you need for that stroke. I know the wilwood slave only comes in one size; I had to run a 1" master cylinder to get the full stroke out of the slave after I put in a new clutch.  A 3/4" MC would probably work with a worn clutch though, so be careful (especially if you can still return the 3/4" one...).

You found it. Thanks for the input. I have the mark viii headers but one side has a Cat built onto it and the other just doesn't look like it would flow very good, if i run into major issues with the exhaust i may revisit using them. I am starting to build the exhaust in the next couple day and have already had to pull the studs on the flanges and swap to bolts due to the proximity to the frame rails.

 

When i talked to wilwood they say that the 3/4 master is what they recomend with their slave, so i'll give it a shot if it doesn't work i'll probably go to a 1". Looking at my slave in almost the same configuration you are running I am concerned about the amount of travel available and if it will be enough.

 

The other thing I was curious about that i didn't see you mention was if you used the stock fuel lines and tank and if you have had any issues. I was planning on using the stock tank with a surge tank but haven't decided on fuel lines yet.

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Yeah, I'm kinda wondering how Wilwood would know the stroke you have on an old Z car at the pedal vs. what you need at the clutch arm.  If I can find them, I'll put up a picture of the excel sheet I used to figure out the right master cylinder / slave cylinder arrangement.  (EDIT, Found it. )  I think you'll run out of travel at your master cylinder early based on my measurements on this post: 

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/97812-460zgt-project-build/?p=983253

 

Master Cylinder "Determiner"         Inputs    0.750 Pull piston diameter   1.400 Pull piston travel   0.750 Master cyl piston diam     Outputs Master Cyl Travel 1.400             0.619 Volume (in3)  

 

Master Cylinder "Determiner"         Inputs    0.750 Pull piston diameter   1.400 Pull piston travel   0.875 Master cyl piston diam     Outputs Master Cyl Travel 1.029             0.619 Volume (in3)  

 

Master Cylinder "Determiner"         Inputs    0.750 Pull piston diameter   1.400 Pull piston travel   1.000 Master cyl piston diam     Outputs Master Cyl Travel 0.788             0.619 Volume (in3)  

 

 

SORRY about the crap format.  Apparently this forum style doesn't like direct copy paste from Microsoft programs....

 

I just used the stock fuel lines.  Literally, I don't think I even changed the fuel line length! I used the stock Z fuel filter and mounted it near where the battery tray is.  I don't think I have a recent picture of that setup and how I mounted my MAF/ airfilter either.   Why are you running a surge tank?  To put a higher volume pump in?  I'm not sure what the stock pump is rated for (gph at 36psi) but I seem to remember looking into it and realizing I would be fine. 

Edited by yellowoctupus

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FYI to me:  Wilwood PN's for the o-rings.  If replacements are purchased from McMaster Carr etc, they should be EPDM.  (Glycol, DOT brake fluid compatible).

 

210-1330 small: SAE dash number =

210-1328 large: SAE dash number =

 

After years of rebuilding my old ( and definitely worn out) slave cylinder, I finally broke down and paid $80 for a new unit.  Two weeks later, all the fluid's gone again.  I'm hoping it just had old seals and they went bad.  Wilwood sent me another set of o-rings, but I'm still not real pleased about this.  :icon55:

Edited by yellowoctupus

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Finally got rid of that stupid Wilwood pull cylinder.  I actually broke down and bought a new one back around Christmas and it's given me nothing but problems.  I actually had better luck with my old REALLY beat up one that I made a custom piston for.  Went through about a half gallon of fluid in the last few months and a pile of o-rings...

Ok, off my b*tchin' box. 

 

I got PN 12210 from Autozone $11.99, it's one of their common stocked items (I found it by digging around the back shelves of my local store.) You can't find the application at the store, but you actually can by searching their website.  There's a tab for 'Vehicle Fitment' that I'm sure has been there for years, but I've never seen before.  It fits:  Mazda B2000 1986/1987 and Mazda B2200 1987-1993.  It has a 3/4" bore, and over 1.3" of stroke before the piston starts to protrude from the bore. The weird thing that I'll have to check at the junkyard is I don't know what the inlet line fitting should be.  It's M10x1 straight thread, but there's no seat at the bottom of the threads for an inverted flare, and even the 'long' tube nut bottoms before the line gets tight with a bubble flare.  I ended up (I know, for shame) using a 1/8" NPT, and it went in about 3 or 4 threads, which is good enough for now, but I'm thinking maybe it's supposed to be a banjo fitting?  Seems weird, but I sure saw some weird master/slave cylinders when I was digging through the Azone stock.

 

I made up some brackets and mounted it to the side of the transmission, which worked ok, but I couldn't put it directly inline with the clutch arm, so I had to weld an extension bar offsetting the push rod about .75" to the side.  I also had to make an extension to the pushrod that came with the slave, but I don't have any pictures. I basically just took an aluminum rod, threaded the end to take a button head screw and drilled the other end out to slide over the stock pushrod.  (ie, the button head screw is the contact point on the clutch arm, and is adjustable.)

 

Overall it works really well, it's still a pretty firm feel to the pedal, but the MC stroke required to get the transmission disengaged leaves the pedal a few inches from the floor.  Not a big deal for me, but I think maybe now my wife can drive the car (she couldn't reach the floor with the clutch pedal before, which was required with the Wilwood pull cylinder).

 

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The bolts that have rusty rod welded to them may seem like overkill, but they're really hard to reach in the trans tunnel, and they acted like studs for the bracket to bolt to the trans to.  Drop the assy in from the top, slide the blue bracket up onto the studs, put the nuts on, Done.  For a one time installation, it's not a huge deal to hold the bolts on top, but when it's gotta come on and off 10 times in an hour the first time you're making it...it really is a time saver.

 

Oh, and the big 'notch' cut out of the bracket is to clear the reverse switch and plug.

 

Including finding the parts at Azone, this took from 6:30pm to 11:45pm.  No dinner.... :(  but it works :)

Edited by yellowoctupus

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Out with the old................

 

DSC00410.jpg

 

.........and in with the new.  To be continued...1993 Mark VIII, 110k, failed smog, assumed still running at least OK.  $180 for a complete engine at Pick n Pull.  Sounds like the cheapest possible way to gain 70hp (Mark VIII 285 vs Mustang SOHC 215hp) AND drop 75#!  The Teskid aluminum DOHC blocks are supposed to be crazy strong, and undeniably lighter.  Internet specs for the two engines are 500# SOHC, 425# DOHC.  WOW.

 

 (vin for my reference...) 1LNLM91V7PY761910

 

DSC00409.jpg

Edited by yellowoctupus

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I thought this was a funny picture.  See how the engine bay on this green '93 Mark VIII is gutted already?  I beat the junkyard to getting their stock photo for their online inventory page. :willy_nil

 

93markVIII.jpg

 

Turns out the stock cobra exhaust manifolds will bolt on and should meet up with my custom 'GT' SOHC Y pipe.  That's a relief.  I'm all set with making any more weird custom headers.  That's a pain, especially with the clearance I'm sure I'll have on that side of the engine.

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Engine's in.   Fits fine.  Honestly doesn't look much tighter than the SOHC, I think because the 'wide' measurement from the DOHC comes off the cam cover, which sits in front of the shock towers, so it's somewhat a moot point.   I'll get some pictures of of the latest surgery tomorrow....

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Quick Pic Time:

 

As a note: I did not have to modify my oil pressure pickup piece (Some guys shorten it because of steering clearance?), and my oil filter should still mount to the block like it did from the factory.  I've never been a huge fan of external mounts, it's just more potential failure points. Sometimes you gotta, sometimes you don't. 

 

One BIG thing I'll have to do is make some sort of throttle body to MAF tube.  I want to run the stock hood, and I used the battery box area last time for the air cleaner.  I'm thinking I'll have to 'glass one up, but I'm not sure that's the best route.... sounds like a lot of work even IF I get it right the first time. Radiator hoses are also not the same, but that shouldn't be a HUGE deal.

 

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Edited by yellowoctupus

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So, I'm sure the flow isn't perfect, but it's all sealed up and makes it from point A to point B, so it will work for now. Took a bit longer than I thought it would, a lot of the geometry had to be JUST RIGHT, like the lower sealing flange.

 

DSC08433.jpg

 

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DSC08432.jpg

Edited by yellowoctupus

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All in good time.  I haven't actually shot any videos yet.  Tomorrow's the first drive in to work with the new engine (I've clocked ~10mi around town, we'll call it good). 

 

I spent most of the weekend trying to get a hood latch snuck back behind the intake, with varied amounts of success.  Ended up pinning the hood.  I really wanted to avoid drilling holes through my nice clean hood, but oh well.  Sometimes enough is enough.   I might end up trying the Quik Latch Mini Blue anodized latches, they look very clean, and for under $60 for two the price isn't unreasonable. 

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So, I killed my first universal joint yesterday going to work.  Anticlimatic, and after work I rebuilt it in a bank parking lot with some cheap as* chinese universal joint, 2x 14mm wrenches, a screwdriver and a hammer.  It was a US forged unit, maybe a Moog?  looks like the fracture initiated at the grease port, which I understand is somewhat common.   

 

I also had a bad serpentine tensioner on the new motor which caused me to almost chew through my belt all the way, then when I was trying to emergency shim the tensioner at the mounting bolts, I stripped one of the bolts out.  They only had 6.5mm of thread engagement of a M8 into an aluminum head.  Rough rule of thumb for threaded hole depth is 1.5*diameter.  8*1.25=12mm THEY ONLY HAD 6.5 GRR.  Anyways, the hole and threads were super deep already, so I just put a longer bolt in.  Nice of them to pre-deep thread the hole that they expected to strip out...  Thankfully, the old SOHC tensioner, with it's different part number still bolted right up and worked fine on the DOHC engine.

 

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DSC08533.jpg

Edited by yellowoctupus

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So, those stupid polyurethane bushings that go on the TC rods (in the famous works of Alice Cooper) "CAN GO TO HELL!!!"

 

I actually broke the TC rod.  The polyurethane profile and material makes it so stiff, if anything it would impede motion and make the suspension BIND!  What a crap design.  One of my buddies on Hybridz (big shout out to Rayaapp2!!!) came through with an extra one so I could make the drive to work the next day, but I turned de-stiffened both sides' bushings first.  Only took a minute on my lathe, but I'm sure it will keep the TC rods from breaking in the future. The picture on the lathe shows one bushing machined, the other is as-purchased for comparison.

 

DSC00437.jpg

 

DSC00434.jpg

Edited by yellowoctupus

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Well, time to breathe some NEW life into the never ending saga of my car being in pieces.  It's all together and driving right now, but I have a stub axle that feels loose (???) on it's splines, and I've been breaking universals only with a 4.6 and street tires.  Sooo... I brought home a 1994 Mark VIII to cannibalize.  I am going to (eventually) make the rear end fit up in my Z, and I'm going to use the spare engine to build up a supercharger manifold, etc.  The 4.6 DOHC is a cool engine, but it still lacks the low end punch the Z NEEDS. 

 

post-2969-0-24323300-1447378586_thumb.jpg

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8.8 is out.  Car is ready to be picked up by the next 'for scrap only' owner..

 

Really not terrible getting the rear end out. Drop the Exhaust, gas tank (gas tank probably not necessary, but it was already falling down on this car...) then unbolt all 4 of the subframe mounting points (these are ALWAYS rusty, and very hard to get out, if you can without breaking the bolts or snapping the unibody welded in 'nuts') . All of mine came free, but it took a while.  I also grabbed ALL of the Ebrake cables, including the push on push off foot lever, as you never know what little piece of hardware you'll need.  The rear air springs are easy to pop out too, after you let the air out (just clip the harness on one of the springs, and power it 12v+ to the orange wire, ground to the grey wire)  there's a little spring tab you push which keeps the whole air spring from spinning, then you just spin the whole thing off.  I was able to do both wearing rubber / mechanics gloves.  They have a double 'keyhole' looking engagement that should pop right out of the unibody once you spin them. 

 

Oh, a nice/ interesting point, the rear assembly is PERFECTLY balanced when you pick it up by the pumpkin on the jack.  I pulled it out of the car on the jack and the whole thing just slowly spun around on the jack.  It's nice when for once something doesn't fight you.

 

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Edited by yellowoctupus

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Tore into the rear end today, and found one thing out I was a little disappointed in; I can't recut new splines on the OEM Ford shafts, as they 'neck down' after the splines.  Thanks Ford, you just saved 6oz from a 2ton car.  Oh well. Here's how I held the hub from spinning while removing the spindle nut.  I think it's a 36mm, but I had an english socket which fit nice and tight. An impact would probably pop these right off, but it was 1am. Not impact wrench time at my house.

 

IMG_9212.jpg

 

One tip to remove the shafts from the outboard CV shaft is called the 'pipe drop' method. 

 

The Ford service manual says "NOTE: The interconnecting shaft cannot be removed from the outboard CT joint. Outboard CV joints are serviced as assemblies, including the interconnecting shaft, boot, clamps, grease and circlips."

 

Essentially, you can 'pop' the shaft and outermost wire circlip through the cv bearing holder using the mass of the shaft itself.  Simply have a pipe that's a few inches (feet etc) longer than the center shaft that JUST fits over the splines, and drop the whole assembly on the floor.  Alternatively I used my vice on a shorter piece of pipe and it came out so easily, it was ridiculous.  I had been trying to beat the shaft (...I know...) with a bronze punch on the inner bearing race which did NOTHING. I think it took two drops and the shaft dropped right into my hand.

 

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This was helpful:  http://www.ffcars.com/forums/66-2006-roadster-archives-read-only/155195-calling-donor-irs-breakdown-experts.html#post1345108

 

Factory Five makes new shafts, with stock lengths (for their AC Cobra IRS kits) and in non-stock lengths, I'm going to get a price on new shafts from them, and maybe elsewhere, if I can find someone else who makes them.  Worse come to worse I'll make them myself, but it's just one more time sucker if I have to do it at home.

Edited by yellowoctupus

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7.5 axles are a bit smaller (in diameter) according to the Factory Five paperwork. (pg6)

 

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/IRS-STD-rev-K.pdf

 

This PDF install manual has some good info in the front about which Ford cars came with IRS, Limited Slip etc. 

 

Thanks for the heads up though.  Any leads I can get on stock replacement parts are certainly welcome.  I'm actually wondering aloud now if any of the 4wd 8.8 fronts came with the same size axles to the short side (ie, Ford Expedition etc). 

 

From what I can find, the 240z, 280z etc have 53" track width for the wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface (WMS-WMS) (if anyone knows otherwise, let me know, I haven't actually measured my Z yet). I measured the Mark VIII setup on my garage floor prior to disassembly, and it was approximately 62.5" WMS-WMS. 

 

I'll upload my axle sketch for the stock axles sometime for future reference.  If the above measurements are correct, I need a center shaft that's 5" shorter than the stock Mark VIII shafts.

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