280z Fuel Injection System Swap

[mtinney280z]

I have a 77 280z. I've had the car for a long time and love it, but hate the constant fixing and tinkering with the crude stock fuel injection system. Has anyone swapped the fuel system with something newer/more efficient. I'm mostly interested in increasing the reliability/efficiency of the system, and not so much performance.

 

Any suggestions welcome. I want to keep the car, but it's starting to become impractical with the constant problems with the FI system. To make it more difficult, I'm in CA with the strict smog regulations.

 

Thanks

[NewZed]

These are popular - http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/forum/63-ems/

 

There are threads out there about the Z31 ECU but I'm not sure it's much easier, better or cheaper than the aftermarket options in the sub-forum above.

[stravi757]

The best option is probably to go megasquirt. But since you have to deal with smog i would say just fix your stock EFI, I agree it sucks dealing with it, but unless you want to do some work the easiest route is to fix it.

 

But if you are willing to do some homework I think going with the Z31 ecu and MAF Swap would be a good idea and fun project. Its probably got the best chance of staying under the radar for passing smog. Its much more reliable and efficient over the stock electronics, and not impossible to do. And you should have no problem sourcing the parts from the JY. Im running the 300zx electronics right now and Im happy with them, for me it was super easy to install with the help of afsin thread(might of spelled his name incorrectly)

 

Parts you would need off the top of my head:

 

300zx Na harness or 280zx turbo harness

 

280zx 82-83 turbo dizzy

 

chopper wheel from 300zx dizzy

 

MAf from 300zx

 

ECU from 300zx

 

 

Where you live in cali?

[rednekz]

I live in Mississippi, so luckily (for now) I don't have to deal with smog inspections. However, I'm wondering: Isn't there a visual inspection that you have to pass?

[stravi757]

I live in Mississippi, so luckily (for now) I don't have to deal with smog inspections. However, I'm wondering: Isn't there a visual inspection that you have to pass?

 

Actually I was reading a little while ago that when they passes the new smog laws(in 2004 i think) that if your car is 35yrs or older and is insured under classic car insurance, then your car only has to pass out the tailpipe.

[Indey]

The last CA smog law that was posted was for any car from 1975 and older, it has not increased the year range since. Not only that but you do need to have all of the factory smog equipment still on the vehicle and functioning.

[mtinney280z]

That sounds like something I'd like to do. I really wanted to put an LT1 in, but after hearing what people go through to get a ref to sign off I changed my mind. This sounds like it may be my best bet. I read through the posts from Afshin, and seems very doable. Did you do this on a 280z or a zx? It looks like the majority of posts are with zx turbo. Have you had any problems getting by with smog with the setup? I live in the bay area as well down near Fremont. What junk yards do you go to for parts? In the past I've gone to a Pick N' Pull in fairfield.

 

I visit Danville a lot because I have friends that live off El Capitan Dr. Maybe sometime when I'm in the area I could check out your setup.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

 

The best option is probably to go megasquirt. But since you have to deal with smog i would say just fix your stock EFI, I agree it sucks dealing with it, but unless you want to do some work the easiest route is to fix it.

 

But if you are willing to do some homework I think going with the Z31 ecu and MAF Swap would be a good idea and fun project. Its probably got the best chance of staying under the radar for passing smog. Its much more reliable and efficient over the stock electronics, and not impossible to do. And you should have no problem sourcing the parts from the JY. Im running the 300zx electronics right now and Im happy with them, for me it was super easy to install with the help of afsin thread(might of spelled his name incorrectly)

 

Parts you would need off the top of my head:

 

300zx Na harness or 280zx turbo harness

 

280zx 82-83 turbo dizzy

 

chopper wheel from 300zx dizzy

 

MAf from 300zx

 

ECU from 300zx

 

 

Where you live in cali?

[stravi757]

That sounds like something I'd like to do. I really wanted to put an LT1 in, but after hearing what people go through to get a ref to sign off I changed my mind. This sounds like it may be my best bet. I read through the posts from Afshin, and seems very doable. Did you do this on a 280z or a zx? It looks like the majority of posts are with zx turbo. Have you had any problems getting by with smog with the setup? I live in the bay area as well down near Fremont. What junk yards do you go to for parts? In the past I've gone to a Pick N' Pull in fairfield.

 

I visit Danville a lot because I have friends that live off El Capitan Dr. Maybe sometime when I'm in the area I could check out your setup.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

I did this on my 280z with a 280zx turbo engine. I actually just put an NA engine in my car to smog it. I have heard of some people not having a problem passing smog with the turbo engine saying the smog guy didnt say anything about it. But i just didnt bother. seemed like a waste of time to try and sneek it past them when I have another engine to throw in and pass for sure. And come 2012 1978 cars will only need to pass out the tailpipe anyways as long as you have your car insured under a classic car.

 

But as for passing smog with the 300zx ecu, I think you shouldnt have a problem. The only noticeable part difference will be the MAF. And I bet if you get a used and dirt one from the JY, The smog tech wont even notice.

 

I usally go to the pickandpull's also around my area.

 

Well I actually just pulled my engine out but you could still come and check it out if you want. All the wiring is still there anyways.

[mtinney280z]

Ok, thanks. Have any idea what insurance providers consider a "classic car"? That'll be great when that happens.

 

I did this on my 280z with a 280zx turbo engine. I actually just put an NA engine in my car to smog it. I have heard of some people not having a problem passing smog with the turbo engine saying the smog guy didnt say anything about it. But i just didnt bother. seemed like a waste of time to try and sneek it past them when I have another engine to throw in and pass for sure. And come 2012 1978 cars will only need to pass out the tailpipe anyways as long as you have your car insured under a classic car.

 

But as for passing smog with the 300zx ecu, I think you shouldnt have a problem. The only noticeable part difference will be the MAF. And I bet if you get a used and dirt one from the JY, The smog tech wont even notice.

 

I usally go to the pickandpull's also around my area.

 

Well I actually just pulled my engine out but you could still come and check it out if you want. All the wiring is still there anyways.

[Tony D]

one with 'classic car insurance'...

 

That is what the law says, it's not what the insurance company says, it's what insurance you have on the car.

[Pharaohabq]

I've played with this a little bit... I used the Hesco Jeep EFI conversion kit to swap over my old L28 to 94' GM OBD1 Fuel injection. It cost about $600 bucks total to do it using a lot of Junkyard and Ebay parts, and the hardest part was getting the CPS to read correctly. The kit comes with the EFI harness for 6 cyl Jeep, but the EFI plugs are the same on the injectors. The TPS and IAC were easy bacause I just swapped in a Jeep throttle body in place of the Datsun Air flow meter. I didn't need any of the stock engine control stuff. The relays and the Jeep ECU I mounted in where the original Datsun ECU was. I had to swap in a GM Coil so the plugs would match, and the Distrib, I used the 83 ZX distr and modified the Pickup from a 94' Jeep distrib to read the pulses correctly. I closed up all thoe Air holes on the intake cept for the one to the brake booster, and connected a hose to a 94' jeep MAF. Really it's not very hard. The Hesco kit can be used on any 6 cyl engine. You just need to adapt a few things, like Temp sensor and the CAM sensor like I said for the Distrib. The Fuel pump stays the same, so no change there. There was a guy on here making custom harmonic balancers that would be ideal for a conversion, I couldn't find the link tho.

 

Check out the Hesco parts. LINK HERE Most are much cheaper from the JY or Ebay. the Harness is probably good to buy since it's labelled and everything.

 

The engine is more powerful and runs more smoothly than it ever did before. An advantage is the GM system is Asynchronous injection, instead of batch pulsed injectors, so it's more efficient, better gas mileage and less emmissions. You CAN get a Carb sticker from Hesco, depending on how much you buy.

 

On all S30's they do a tailpipe test anyway, because the S30's never had a OBD1 or II port and certainly don't have the 03+ CAM port. I'd show you pictures of the setup but it's all ripped out because I'm in the middle of my VQ35HR swap ( Notated in the V6 forum on here) I have the same system installed in my Jeep if you'd like picts. you can check out my Jeep site: www.Projectjeep.com.

 

I'd be more than happy to try to help guide you through going this direction if you'd like. I had a lot of fun setting it up and it ran fine till I decided to try the VQ swap (which is going slowly due to a lot of modifications) The VQ will be using the Stock wiring et al.

 

Pretty exciting.

 

Phar

 

Oh and Classic Car insurance likely you'll prefer Modified car insurance. Basically the car gets much better insurance rates because you have to have the car be 18+ years old, and get an appraisal, and often must be garaged w/ a mileage limit. Look up hagarty classic car insurance (state farm)

Edited February 25, 2011 by Pharaohabq

[mtinney280z]

Wow, so Hesco will give you a CARB sticker! I'll have to look into that. I wanted to get away from the syncronous injection so this might work out great. Is there any documentation in particular you were looking at to get started that you could point me to?

 

Thanks

 

I've played with this a little bit... I used the Hesco Jeep EFI conversion kit to swap over my old L28 to 94' GM OBD1 Fuel injection. It cost about $600 bucks total to do it using a lot of Junkyard and Ebay parts, and the hardest part was getting the CPS to read correctly. The kit comes with the EFI harness for 6 cyl Jeep, but the EFI plugs are the same on the injectors. The TPS and IAC were easy bacause I just swapped in a Jeep throttle body in place of the Datsun Air flow meter. I didn't need any of the stock engine control stuff. The relays and the Jeep ECU I mounted in where the original Datsun ECU was. I had to swap in a GM Coil so the plugs would match, and the Distrib, I used the 83 ZX distr and modified the Pickup from a 94' Jeep distrib to read the pulses correctly. I closed up all thoe Air holes on the intake cept for the one to the brake booster, and connected a hose to a 94' jeep MAF. Really it's not very hard. The Hesco kit can be used on any 6 cyl engine. You just need to adapt a few things, like Temp sensor and the CAM sensor like I said for the Distrib. The Fuel pump stays the same, so no change there. There was a guy on here making custom harmonic balancers that would be ideal for a conversion, I couldn't find the link tho.

 

Check out the Hesco parts. LINK HERE Most are much cheaper from the JY or Ebay. the Harness is probably good to buy since it's labelled and everything.

 

The engine is more powerful and runs more smoothly than it ever did before. An advantage is the GM system is Asynchronous injection, instead of batch pulsed injectors, so it's more efficient, better gas mileage and less emmissions. You CAN get a Carb sticker from Hesco, depending on how much you buy.

 

On all S30's they do a tailpipe test anyway, because the S30's never had a OBD1 or II port and certainly don't have the 03+ CAM port. I'd show you pictures of the setup but it's all ripped out because I'm in the middle of my VQ35HR swap ( Notated in the V6 forum on here) I have the same system installed in my Jeep if you'd like picts. you can check out my Jeep site: www.Projectjeep.com.

 

I'd be more than happy to try to help guide you through going this direction if you'd like. I had a lot of fun setting it up and it ran fine till I decided to try the VQ swap (which is going slowly due to a lot of modifications) The VQ will be using the Stock wiring et al.

 

Pretty exciting.

 

Phar

 

Oh and Classic Car insurance likely you'll prefer Modified car insurance. Basically the car gets much better insurance rates because you have to have the car be 18+ years old, and get an appraisal, and often must be garaged w/ a mileage limit. Look up hagarty classic car insurance (state farm)

[Pharaohabq]

Wow, so Hesco will give you a CARB sticker! I'll have to look into that. I wanted to get away from the syncronous injection so this might work out great. Is there any documentation in particular you were looking at to get started that you could point me to?

 

Thanks

 

 

Well the Hesco site I gave you is pretty good so far as the documentation on their system. Like I said you really only need the wiring harness, the rest you can buy off Ebay or at a JY much cheaper. The Carb Sticker, I'm not sure how much of their system you'd have to use for that, but I know they're availible. It's really not too tough, Here is the Instuctions Now there are a lot of differences, but really a lot of the parts will work, such as the Vehicle speed sensor VSS, it just plugs into the speedo cable. I think I had to make a bracket for it though. If you checked out my writeup on my jeep site too, you'll see my jeep install. The Z is very similar, though cutting the notches in your harmonic balancer is a little scary, but if you mark them out 3 groups of 4 it's pretty easy. I think I posted a template on my jeep site. The CPS, you'll have to make a bracket to hold it, but it'll be positioned at the start of the first set of notches with the engine at TDC. 0 deg. I never got my tach to work with this system though. After market gauges are pretty easy. Read through it all and try to imagine how you can adapt it to the 280Z system. It does work, and your Z will run fine with it. Finding the ECU is the hardest on Ebay cuz some are locked, Need one for a 94 jeep 4.0/2.5L but not from a cherokee, wrangler only since the cherokee's had a BCU which would lock the ECU. I have a stock jeep harness, but the Hesco one is labelled and nice and new. Read up and let me know your questions.

 

Pharaoh

 

Oh!, I almost forgot, you'll have to weld in a O2 Sensor bung into your exhaust. That's easy to do/have done.

Edited February 27, 2011 by Pharaohabq

[Powerglide]

but hate the constant fixing and tinkering with the crude stock fuel injection system

 

The stock EFI should'nt need "constant fixing and tinkering". It's probably one of the simplest, most basic and DEAD relaible FI systems ever produced and installed on a regular production engine.

[pancho y onions]

Thank gosh I live in Wisconsin .

[BluDestiny]

but hate the constant fixing and tinkering with the crude stock fuel injection system

The stock EFI should'nt need "constant fixing and tinkering". It's probably one of the simplest, most basic and DEAD relaible FI systems ever produced and installed on a regular production engine.

 

 

I love the FI on my 280zx NA. Starts right up, works great and I get like 25-27 highway mpg. Only change I've made is a fuel rail, FPR and Walboro pump

[Tony D]

"On all S30's they do a tailpipe test anyway, because the S30's never had a OBD1 or II port and certainly don't have the 03+ CAM port."

 

"Oh and Classic Car insurance likely you'll prefer Modified car insurance. Basically the car gets much better insurance rates because you have to have the car be 18+ years old, and get an appraisal, and often must be garaged w/ a mileage limit."

 

I would caution people outside California commenting like this. This is not applicable to California, and this is not correct information.

 

CalSmog consists of a tailpipe and visual test. Having 'modified car insurance' from Haggerty gest you NOTHING according to the law Stravi mentioned. It has to be collector car insurance... Haggerty does not have mileage restrictions on some of their policies, they just stipulate 'pleasure use only' meaning they don't want you driving 12K miles a year in rush hour traffic to and from work daily. CARB expected most companies would put strict mileage limits on the vehicles to limit their pollution potential...D'OH! Haggerty screwed them on that, and it's good for us!

 

If you want to go through ONLY the tailpipe test on the car, it has to be 35 model years old or older, and have collector car insurance on it. In some of the discussions/debate/floor discussion there was discussion that an additional requirement would be that the vehicles were registered with a Marque Club, or car club of some sort.

 

Now think about this people: We have had catalysts on vehicles now for OVER 35 years. You would think in almost 40 years people would educate themselves on emissions, or upkeep of these devices. These systems are generally troublefree and maintenance is not that difficult. There really isn't a reason not to have the car pass. And with a reasonable tailpipe only test, this should be a breeze. There is no more of this 'oh you don't have XYZ under the hood, you FAIL!' (even though out the pipe in the back you are compliant. Living in CA the results of pollution controls has meant a far better quality of life than before their implementation. They have not been the downfall of performance automobiles, or the aftermarket that exists for performance modifications. The there is no reason on the face of the earth that a properly adjusted performance Z-Car shouldn't pass a tailpipe-only test (especially if it's tested to the original requirements for year of manufacture.)

[Pharaohabq]

Right, okay, So that's true, I'm not in Cali, I can't really attest to the Cali smog laws. It worked for me in New Mexico, and we're probably a pretty laid back state as far as emissions goes. I know the EFI system works, but it's work to put it together. It can be done cheap though. Reading the CARB sticker cert they cite on the Hesco.us site also says it's specifically for retrofit of Jeeps to the 91-94 EFI standard, completely removing the stock Carburated system. I'm not sure the sticker would work on a Z. My Z did pass NM emissions with the old engine. I imagine with my current swap I will have to pass 2007 veh emissions for the 2007 engine.

 

Phar

[Tony D]

Reading the CARB sticker cert they cite on the Hesco.us site also says it's specifically for retrofit of Jeeps to the 91-94 EFI standard, completely removing the stock Carburated system. I'm not sure the sticker would work on a Z.

 

No, it won't, and since it's not on the engine designed for the conversion it's an illegal swap in CA. It is not a CARB compliant swap. Now if they redo their test on a 78Z then they could probably get a second CARB sticker for that application as well. But will they do it? I bet not.

 

That is kinda why I cautioned about posting, it's totally inapplicable. Other states, maybe, but not in CA (and that was stated in the OP)

[Tony D]

An OBD1 GM 2.8L V6 TBI system works flawlessly on an L28 as well, its a 'figure a way to bolt it up and mount the sensors' and you're on your way. Works great.

 

But also an illegal modification.

 

That is why the emphasis on TAILPIPE ONLY testing was important. There is no visual fail criteria if you have the proper year vehicle, and proper insurance. It makes the law common sense. You technically should be able to have anything you want on the engine as long as it passes out the tailpipe. Maybe RAYAAP can comment further on the specific smog check functional tests and if all Original Components must F/C correctly as well...

 

But for something runnning in CA, I know for a fact the MS1 has endured multiple 'stealth' installation in Bosch AFC systems (identical to our JECS System) on VW busses over the past 10 years. You can integrate the MS into the stock harness without much trouble, and they are now making PNP (plug n play) kits to be able to house it in the stock JECS box. This is the best alternative IMO as it doesn't draw any attention to any modification.

 

Just my opinion after dealing with CA Smog for some time (around 20 years now).

 

It's not hard to pass, you just can't be too stupid when you go in for your tests. Some people are amazed by what I get past. But if the cuffs and collars match, and everything looks like it's functional, and it runs clean out the pipe...it passes. Discretion is the better part of valor in this instance.

 

Go in with a lot of new wires, different looking components, and something looking modified....you're crucified by a gunshy technician who wants to keep his job and not get a $10K fine. Show that you know something about testing, emissions, or engine function? RED FLAG! Chances are you will get booted to a referee station on a fail rather than anybody risking passing you and finding out you're a BAR inspector.

 

All those guys who clean-piped their cars all these years: Thanks for the narrowed standards for 75-79 year vehicles. If you failed legit tests, we would likely have a vehicle exemption now, or at least still be held to the original test standards!

 

But I digress...