Barrel_Ball Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) I'm in the process of getting my Megasquirt 2 (V3.0 board) to work on my turbo '76. Pretty much stock internals, N/A cam, 10psi boost last time it ran, stock everything else on the engine for the most part. Here's the problem: The CAS ('82/83 turbo dizzy), isn't giving out a signal. LED on MS-II isn't blinking, no tach signal in Megatune, no spark off the coil, nothing. I did the IGBT jumper mod on the DIY site (using the BIP chip), and wired the CAS as the diagram said, with the resistor even. Is there some setting in Megatune (matches firmware v2.892) that I need to turn on for this to work? Ignition settings I put in are 'standard coil charge', and 'inverted/going high'. That's all I saw in the menu... Seems like every other setup I see is on earlier versions of Megatune that have different menus/tables. Any kind of help would be greatly appreciated. Edited April 27, 2011 by Barrel_Ball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOZ UP Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 (edited) Does the CAS have power? On my Z31 (which uses a similar CAS, but other things not so similar), the CAS was powered by the stock ECU, and I had to wire it in to +12v IGN source when using MS. Edited April 27, 2011 by BLOZ UP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrel_Ball Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 Well, I just used a test light on the plug going into the CAS, and the main power wire to it, which is the Black/White -> red wire, coming from the Main relay, is getting power. The test light won't get anything from the resistor wire, which is also the signal wire going into MS-II, since I would assume that thing is pushing miliAmps at this point due to the resistor. Even the ground is hooked up properly. I even got my wiring schematic made up here, and it's based off all the other diagrams I've seen. I wonder if the sensor finally kicked the bucket, but I don't know how that could happen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannonball89 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 (edited) Where do you have the +12V for the CAS wired into? If it comes off of any circuit coming from your fuel pump relay then it won't receive power until MS see's a TACH signal (which it won't because the fuel pump relay won't be on.) Also If the power to the CAS comes from any circuit attached to the STOCK Accesory relay it won't see any power during cranking, even though it will see power when the key is set to the "ON" position. I see that you have the + side of your coil wired into the fuel pump relay... I'm not really sure if that is a good way to do it since that means that the coil won't receive +12V until a TACH signal is attained.... might make for hard starting. I have my coil + side wired with the stock wires going to it and only the - side hooked to MS to control spark. To check your CAS I would think you could use the following procedure: 1. Remove distributor from the engine. (I would also remove the cap and rotor and the plug wires) 2. Remove the fuses to the fuel pumps and injectors ( so you don't flood the engine.) 3. Disconnect +12V from coil ( so you don't shock yourself or start fires from the arcing) 4. Turn key on 5. Take a voltmeter and attach the + lead to pin #24 of the DB37 connector and the - lead to a good ground. 6. Have an assistant spin the distributor by hand 7. You should see a change in voltage on pin #24 every time one of the six slots passes under the optical sensor ( assuming you have it wired correctly and it is a non-defective unit) 8. If not then I would assume you either have a faulty CAS or you didn't wire it right. 9. If it checked out good on this test then I would disconnect the "S" terminal of the starter and do the same procedure with the key on the crank position to make sure that it works while cranking too. EDIT: Actually since the DB37 will be disconnected from MS during this test is really shouldn't be neccesary to remove the fuses to the fuel pump(s) and injector or the wiring to the plus side of the coil. So if you want to you can ignore those steps. Edited April 27, 2011 by Cannonball89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrel_Ball Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 (edited) Okay, so I tried a few things like was suggested in the above post, and the CAS is getting/sending power/signals, the coil's getting power, even from the factory wiring (I disconnected the FP relay wire from the coil to confirm that). My only guess is there's a Problem with the MS-II, either hardware or software... Also, is it natural for the MS-II to sometimes keep the ignition system energized when the key is off? EDIT: Here's a pic of the assembled board. Did I do the jumper right for MS-II, or is my reading comprehension really that bad? Edited April 27, 2011 by Barrel_Ball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannonball89 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 You should not have power to the coil when the key is off under any circumstance, it will melt your coil in short order. Your MS would only control power to the coil if it is hooked up to the fuel pump relay, which it is in your diagram. But when the key is off MS shouldn't have power either. So it seems like your wiring is a little messed up. What I did is leave the stock wires going to the + side of the coil, this means that the coil is only getting power with the key "on" and "start". I then have my pin #85 of both the fuel pump and main relay hooked up to the spade terminal from the + side of the coil, this means that MS only gets power when the coil has power, which is only when the key is "on" or "start". The main relays pin #86 goes to ground and the fuel pumps pin #86 goes to the MS so it can control it. I have pin #30 on both my fuel pump and main relays coming directly off of the + side of the battery,and pin #87 goes to my fusebox. Everything EFI related draws power from a common point this way, it simplifies things quite a bit. Like I said before, just make sure that the CAS or any thing else that should be on when the engine is off draws power from the main relay, not the fuel pump relay. As far as the jumper, that is only for the BIP373, that has nothing to do with your CAS. If you were getting an RPM indication but no spark, then it might be a problem with the BIP or the jumper, but for now you need to get an RPM indication from your CAS before you start worrying about getting spark. You will never get spark if the MS doesn't think the engine is running. For software settings you never mentioned what trigger scheme you selected. It should be basic trigger, and ignition capture should be set to rising edge. You dial in trigger offset by checking actual timing with a light and adjusting until MS matches the light, but ~60 degrees of offset seems to work good as an initial setting. (I have an MS3, so the offset might be different with yours). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrel_Ball Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 okay, so I guess the rising edge I didn't set, but where would I find the basic trigger? All I see for 'ignition trigger' in the 'basic ignition settings' window are for "cranking trigger", with the settings: 'calculated', 'trigger return', or 'trigger rise'. The attached pic shows the only ignition setting window I know of besides the timing table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOZ UP Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 You thought about trying TunerStudio instead of MT? MT is no longer maintained IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrel_Ball Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 Huh... That's news to me, since that's what the tutorial site still recommends. Guess that's what happens when I enter the fray late in the game. Okay, I'll try the free version and see how that goes, since I don't have a credit card, and I never used my paypal so I don't remember my password... hehe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrel_Ball Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 Okay, I looked at tunerstudio for a bit, and noticed that it doesn't have a trigger setup option either. I see no way in either program to set what trigger type I'm using. The base ignition settings just start with trigger offset, no spark mode or anything. If I missed something, I'm open for suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannonball89 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 On my Tunerstudio it is under Ignition Setting then click Ignition Options/Wheel Decoder, and it is the first thing on the menu. Maybe with MS2 the settings are different, some one else who is running MS2 on the same firmware as you will have to chime in, but here is what my trigger settings are. I am basically running the engine on the same hardware as you, the stock CAS and the BIP373 for spark control, the only difference is in that I have MS3 on a V3.57 while you have MS2 on a V3.0. (These settings are not dialed in yet but the car is starting and idling at the moment) One nice thing about Tunerstudio is that under diagnostics (even in the free version!) you can log your trigger signal to really verify the working order of your CAS without doing the test procedure I described in an earlier post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrel_Ball Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 Wow, that looks a bit different than the supposedly same version of TS lite I'm using. Here's the ignition menus I end up with... Is there some sort of .ini file I should've added to a Cfg folder or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrel_Ball Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) EDIT: I reflashed the firmware - It now runs MS2 Extra 2.1. Now I got the proper ignition menu, so I set it to basic trigger, rising edge, inverted. Still nothing. Weren't there some small potentiometers inside that one would adjust to make it work or something? I saw another thread regarding something like that, but I'm not too clear on it yet. Edited May 2, 2011 by Barrel_Ball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannonball89 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) I have my tach input running on the VR circuit with the potentiometers set with R52 all the way counter-clockwise and R56 two turns clockwise from fully counterclockwise. I also have added a 1K resistor to the pads marked R57 on my V3.57 board. I don't fully understand the theory behind the potentiometers, this page will describe it much better than I can: http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/vradjust.htm Just keep in mind that I have a different board and also a different firmware than you, so the way mine is configured may not be what you need. Do you have a stim? I really don't know what else you should try other than seeing if you get a TACH signal on the stim. Edited May 2, 2011 by Cannonball89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrel_Ball Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share Posted May 7, 2011 (edited) I finally had a chance to check out TS lite's logger feature, and I'm getting nothing from the sensor even still. Now I'm even confusing myself. I even stripped away the IGN wire's heat shrink to make sure the shielding wasn't touching the rest of the wire. I got pics here of the wiring in question. in the pigtail pics, Green/Black (harness side) goes into White (dizzy side), and Black/White (harness side) goes into Red (dizzy side). The 'Y' shaped junction is the Green/Black going into the IGN wire on the MS harness, with the Blue wire coming from a switched 12V power source. there's a 1K ohm, 1/4 watt resistor in line where it joins in this junction - you can't see it because it's covered in the heat shrink tubing. In the last pic, Green wire from 12V switched source goes into Black/White wire, while the solid Black goes to ground all the way from the dizzy. As stated before, my multi-meter sees voltage changes with this setup as I turn the distributor, yet for some reason, MS-II doesn't see a hint of it. Also, no, I don't have a stimulator to test MS-II with, yet I'm kind of wishing I had the cash for one at the time, so I'd be done with trying to get it all working by now. Edit: I just reviewed R57 in the megamanual: It says to not put anything there on the v3 board since it "creates problems" with the VB921/BIP373. Mind you, they're also talking about a 47K ohm, 1/8 watt resistor, too, so I don't know if using a 1K, 1/4w resistor will make a difference or not. I don't want to short something out by accident. Edited May 8, 2011 by Barrel_Ball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrel_Ball Posted May 8, 2011 Author Share Posted May 8, 2011 Huh... Yes, you can call me an idiot now. turns out, there were some jumpers I was supposed to make here on the PC board: XG1-XG2, OPTOIN to TACHSELECT, and TSEL to OPTOOUT. Can somebody tell me if this is correct for our application, or is it different for ours? Again, something I accidently skimmed past, and missed entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phi135 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Barrel_Ball, Did you get your 280zx running? Did you ever put in a resistor on R57? I too am a bit confused - Megamanual says to NEVER use R57 - but other posts on this forum and elsewhere indicate that using a 1K resistor is necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cramer Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 R57 should not be used on V3.0 boards. On V3.57s, it serves a totally different purpose - one of the few exceptions to the rule that they have the same schematics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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