Project_240
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Posts posted by Project_240
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There's a guy in Co. selling one for ridiculously cheap (compared to building one yourself). Had I not been almost done with mine, I would have snatched this up in a heartbeat (assuming everything that the owner claimed was in there was actually in there). It's in the classifieds now under parts for sale. Trust me - it will save you a load of headache and preparation and countless machine shop costs. If the economy wasn't in the tank, I'd sell some stock and buy it myself just to have a spare.
well part of me wanting to get a Z is the fact that i enjoy working on cars...i am looking forward to taking the engine apart and cleaing / freshening up the motor and being able to say that "I built this", not i bought this then droped it in my car..
i am just looking forward to spenidng weekends out in my garrage tearing the car apart and the engine and rebuilding / cleaning eveything for both the car and engine..
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nice project..looks like you know what you want from this.. i will be starting a similar project soon.. can't wait... i'll be following this though... good luck
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please nobody tell him and make him go search for the answer!!!!
I did search on here and on internet.. i have seen posts talking about p90's pairing it on various heads and modifying them.. i have seen posts about people looking for a specific year p90 head.. based off that it looks like the 83's have that head..
but didn't see a break down of what years came w/ the P90 head on the L28ET
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Just so you new guys understand, this website doesn't like to play 20 games with the 20 most answered questions, etc. They expect ya to search up and learn a bunch more in the process. Particularly since this is the turbo section.
Anyways, about the question of trim and A/R:
Trim: Gives you a designation of the nature of the wheel. You will have a trim number for both the turbine and compressor wheels. Generally this is what you tinker with a lot on the compressor side although there may be a few size options on the turbine wheel as well.
A/R: This number refers to the (essentially) constant ratio of the cross sectional area inside a slice of the turbine divided by the radius to the centerline of that slice. The larger the number, the tighter the "coil" of the turbine housing and the faster it will spool. The lower the number: the slower the turbine housing uncoils and the more friendly the turbine is to high flow (top-end). (think of it like large radius bends in piping versus tight bends). Generally this is what you tinker with a lot on the turbine side.
On the older Garret turbos, you will usually see T3/T4, etc. The first number (T3) refers to the size class of the turbine. The T4 refers to the size class of the cold side. When you see T04E, the E refers to the compressor cover's opening size. The E is a 3" inlet whereas the S is a 4" inlet.
Generally you can successfully vary the turbine A/R (ie., the turbine housing) along a couple choices and yield a few options with varying powerband characteristics for a particular engine and still be fairly effective for that car. In other words, assuming you have a good turbo configured for quick spool that has all the bits sized right to work together (and with the engine), you can change up the turbine housing to the next size down in A/R and have good mid/top end(-ish) turbo that is still working together pretty well. This makes for a cheap and easy way to "change your mind" or reconfigure the turbo. On the other hand, the compressor and turbine wheels are built as part of the CHRA (center housing rotating assembly) and changing a wheel requires the CHRA to be rebalanced (much like changing to different pistons on a rotating assembly).
great.. thanks alot.. very informative... i tried looking at garrets page.. but couldn't find that nfo..
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what year L28ET came w/ the P90 head?
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thats fine but more than likely your motor is in good shape the way it sits unless it sat outside open for a while... These motors are pretty much bullet proof.
so your saying.. stock motor.. stock internals.. megasquirt.. boost controller. and injectors?
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Why are you tearing apart the motor again? Have you done a compression check? I honestly say if the compression is ok just leave it alone.
well i want this to be my project car.. want to take my time with it and build it right..
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Well, yes and no. Installing a stock wastegate and MSA down pipe on a T3 turbine will be very easy and good enough for 300hp.
Installing an external wastegate would be better but gets expensive and complicated. And installing a hy35 turbo will also lead to some custom fab work.
So to keep it simple and good enough for a high torque, low rpm street engine....then use a stock t3 turbine, stock wastegate, and msa down pipe. (2-1/2 down pipe is all you need).
Save your money for a megasquirt efi system. And if you lower your goal to say, 250hp at the tires then you could get by with a completely stock turbo and save a bunch of money. 250hp at the wheels in a 240 still makes a very quick car.
so.. if i do my refersher rebuild on the engine.... stock turbo and waste gate.. down pipe with exhaust.. intercooler.. megasquirt.. coil pack, fuel pump and injectors..
get around 250rwhp.. and if that gets boring.. then i can upgrade the turbo
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Not just any t3/t4. You need a T04E with a 50 trim on a stock L28 T3 turbine. Makes a big difference.
Yes, megasquirt II would be a good idea. Get it with low impedance drivers and ignition timing control.
Yes, 7,000 rpm is very doable with a L28. However, you get around a 3000 rpm power band. So, if it makes power to 7K, then it will not make power until 4K. Power from 3K to 6K is better for the street, so set it up with that in mind.
Sorry, no experience with HY35 turbos. The compressor maps seem pretty good for a L28, but not as good as a T04e-50 trim (IMO). The good thing is hy35's are cheap and easily found on ebay. Not sure how the exhaust turbine works with a L28, but I'm sure it will be harder to install as compared to using the stock turbine and waste-gate with a prefabbed msa down pipe.
so you recomend that turbo w/ the stock wastegate.. not an external wastegate.... what is the difference between the trim and the a/r?
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so i am in the planning stages of my build.. L28ET.. refresher rebuild.. P90 head.. cleaned.. decked.. valve job.. Megasquirt, coil, injectors, fuel pump, intercooler, exhaust.. boost controller
so that is the basics of the build.. but the quesiton lies with the turbo.. what turbo / size would be best for this app... i was thinking of pairing with a NA cam, looking for approx 15psi w/ a fast spool..
Stock Turbo
T3/T4e .50 trim
T4
Halset
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if you want full boost at 3000 then use a stock T3 turbine.
A good compressor to use for the L28 is a T04E-50 trim. You will need a 1/2 inch turbine spacer to add exhaust manifold clearance for the compressor.
A stock turbo cam will not make power to 6500 rpms. They pretty much quit making power between 5,000 and 5,500 rpm. A non-turbo cam will extend the power out another 500 rpm. And the MSA stage 1 turbo cam will make power to 6,000 or 6500 but may have a little too much overlap for a stock turbine, but the down pipe may get you enough flow to run that cam.
what sort of efi software are you talking about?
what efi system do you have now?
A stock rebuilt is a good idea. should cost about 1000.00 with new pistons.
You most likely will not need new valves. Just get a valve job.
stock turbo spark plugs are good enough
no need for msd ignition, but you do need an efi system with ignition timing control and a coil pack (6 positions)
A msd 2225 fuel pump is a good pump for your application. cheap. durable, and flows enough for 500hp.
get a aeromotive fuel pressure regulator with a 1:1 reference.
You could use the stock wastegate with a boost controller. much simpler install.
You will also need a 240mm flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate to hold the torque.
could make around 280hp with the stock turbo cam and 15 psi, 290 with the na cam, and 300 with the msa stage 1 turbo cam.
you will need an IC to run over 10 psi of boost.
A street car needs torque at low rpms and lots of it. A stock exhaust turbine, small cam, and 15 psi of boost makes a fun street car. You have the right idea.
Don't use a stage 3 exhaust turbine, it make the car feel lazy at low rpms and will not make full boost until 3500 rpms. Not good for the street (if you want low rpm torque)
use low impedance injectors between 370 and 450cc. It's very important to use low impedance injectors for a turbo application. And make sure the efi system is able to run low impedance.
good luck
Thanks for all the info.. helps me make some choices..
with regards to the overlap w/ the NA cam and stock turbo.. would i be better off going w/ the t3/t4 and the na cam....
i was thinking of going possibly the megasquirt efi..
not sure if it pretains to the turbo L series engines.. but i have read alot of posts about these engines being designed to rev to 7000rpm.. is this doable.. or wantable on a turbo engine?
i have seen a few people using the Halset hy35 turbo... how would that rate w/ this application?
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Isn't there a Holset FAQ sticky?
yes there is.. and i read through it.. it does give tech info about it.. i just wanted to comparte it to the popular T3/T4.. and get peoples opinions..
http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=117018&highlight=Holset+FAQ
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Did the search already.. read the posts.. most say similar things.. just that they got one. or what size they are running.. or looking to get.. not too much about efficiency.. and spool times.. i have found posts about max boost..
Search took about 10-15 sec.http://forums.hybridz.org/search.php?searchid=2258928
Start reading, and these threads contain more than just "its off a cummins".
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i did search.. but didn't find to much.. all i know is its a dodge cummings turbo..
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What is the story with the Holset turbo's??? I see alot of people on here use them on their Z, but i do not know to much about them.. I really only heard of Garret and Turbonetics...
How are they? I was orig looking for a T3/T4 hybrid... how do the holset turbo's rate comparted to them?
what size would i want to run on a L28 to achieve around 300rwhp.. and what boos levels?
thanks,
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Not that i am having any problems.. and not sure if there is anything that can be done about it being the intake and exhaust are on the same side.. but w/ the charge pipe off the turbo and the intake pipe off the intercooler being so close together and almost touching in some applications.. does the heat off the hot pipe transfer to the cold pipe at all?
borrowd pic:
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OK.. so i am still in the planning stages.. but have a good idea of what i am looking to do and get out of my car... The car will be a 72 240z, w/ an L28ET, P90 head. I am planning on breaking down the motor and just giving it a refresh.. not really building it up.. just refreshing worn old 150K + old parts.. The head i will send out to get cleaned up.. new valves and seals.. and give it a fresh monting surface.. no porting.. I was going to go w/ a MSD igintian and some sort of EFI software.. I was leaning towards a T3/T4 hybrid turbo, w/ a downpipe and 3" exhaust. higher output fuel pump.. larger injectors.. and a new fuel rail.. better plugs, waste gate, BOV, Intercooler, 60mm throttle body
OK.. so here is what i want from the car.. This is NOT a daily driver.. though i will occasionally take it to work when its nice out.. This will be my weekend cruiser / toy car w/ the occcasional auto X.. not really a track or drag car at all.. just street fun.. Looking for something around 300rwhp.. was hoping to run 15psi or less.. depends on what i need to reach numbers... and would like power to be there close to 3K rpms.. don't want an NA car w/ 150hp.. then at 5K the boost hits and power doubles.. would like full boost to hit early.. and stay through 6.5k...
hope this is realistic.. so.. will the t3/t4 be sufficient.. and is what i am planning good for my expectations....
any suggestions / changes i need to consider to get what i want.
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yea i could see that being a problem... i have heard a few with the triplets and they do sound great.. BUT.. as of now.. after reading all i have.. and after what people have been saying to me about the cost and time involved in building a 3.1L and finding the reputable shop.. i think i may change my ways for now.. I still love the 72 240Z, but instead of doing the 3.1l, i think i am going to just go L28ET.... and eventually when i have more time and money down the road.. build a second Z w/ the 3.1L.. but for now.. with my budget. i think the car would be better off and more likley to get finished w/ the L28ET.. figure to get a engine/tranny/ecu setup.. have the engine freshened up / strengthened.... exhaust, intercooler.. and a T3/T4..
I know its very different then my original choice.. but i don't want to start the car.. and either not finish... or have it sit for a very long time..
And with regards to finding a Z enthusiast shop to build and balance the 3.1... i don't think i will be a problem getting a L28 freshened up and strenghtened....
As I stated before I am no expert. I used a large highly recomended speed/race shop in Reno NV about 15 yr. ago and everything that could go wrong with that engine did. They were not Z experts. They were American V-8 experts. I have spent years reasearching what I wanted in a Z and in findeing a builder that has a passion for the Z car. Such a passion that Mr. K himself would occaissional have dinner with him and more reciently Bob Sharp has called attempting to buy classic race parts. The will to want to build a Z motor without short cuts is what is needed.I have been buying parts for a couple years now and do not rember the exact difference in pistons. Although I think the amount above the top ring is greater on the truck piston. Thus allowing more room to machine the piston to adjust compression ratio.
I have chosen to use Webers as I want a classic preformance restoration and to be naturally asperated. I bought the Webers 15 yr. ago and love them. There is nothing like the sound a set of tripples makes. There are some Utube examples of the sound. Type in (3100 Stroker) and a red Z does some excelleration tests. However there are better preformance options, such as injection. I am not intrested in that type of set up so I cant lend any advise.
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It sounds like you have done a bit of reasearch and you most likly will do more. What I have found out, is that it is best to have a expert Nissan engine builder at hand. I am not an expert. So my friend that is an expert Nissan engine builder is building mine. Of course the desired outcome needs to be considered, street/race. I can tell you what mine will have; I can't rember the block but I think it is a F-54, Vo7 crank, 240z 9 mm. rods, Nissan Hard Body Truck 89 mm. pistons #12010-86G20 that need to be machined according to compression ratio, Nissan piston rings #12033-86G00, Nissan comp head gasket #11044-91MM1, Head is an E-88 with enlarged seats and valves with port work, custom grind cam, TWM intake with tripple Webers. My understanding of this motor is to find the best machine shop possible, hopfully one that has done work on a 3100cc before. The ballance job is critical.
My parts went to the machine shop 3 days ago.
i have a reputable engine shop that i have used in the past that everyone around here raves about.. Not sure if they have worked on 3.1L before.. i plan to ask around here before i get to that point to see if anyone knows of a good shop on long island.. Is there a difference between the 240sx pistons and the truck pistons?
last question is about the intake.. how do the tripple carbs rate agains fuel injection? I always though the tripple carb high reving 3.1L would be great.. but wasn't sure if injection would be a better setup.
thanks,
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The quick answer is no. The long answer is yes but you would have to have a small fortune to spend and then you would actually have to find them. So for the average hobbiest its a little impractical
guess thats the answer i was looking for.. Thanks..
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Just a quick newb question.. do all of the L6 heads have both the the intake and exhaust on the same side of the head? Are there any X flow heads?
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OK, so I have been doing lots or research and reading in getting prepared for my upcoming project... but it appears that the thoughts on this site are different and i was going the wrong way...
So here's the plan: 72 240z, 3.1L
I have access to the diesel crank so that made my decision on this project easy. I know this is not an easy projcect and there is alot involved, and i know its going to take alot of time and money to be done right.
so i know i have to start of with the L28 engine, LD28 crank, 240sx pistons, and i have head about boring it 3mm over bore, and getting the 9mm connecting rods from the 240.
from what i have seen there are lots of head combo's out there to choose from..
so with regards to the starting point.. any recomendations for the base engine to start with.. will any L28 do?
thanks
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For an 89mm bore, the F54 is TONS weaker than the 42. I can take a video of me sonic testing each block, if ya want???
well i guess since the everyone has the same thought the sonic testing wouln't be necessary..
so the 42 block is on the L28?
basically my plan is to go 3.1 w/ 10:1 or so compression..
any recomendations?
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There were non turbo cars.. and they used the N42 block.. and through my research. they say that the F54 block being the turbo block had reinforcements between the cylinders...
A Nissan technician and rebuilder told me that in-between each cylinder, in the water jackets, they cast an extra re-enforcing near the center of each bore. This was designed to strengthen the block in anticipation of the added stress of the turbo
Holset Turbo's????
in Turbo / Supercharger
Posted
thanks