duragg Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Screwing up makes memories. That is the point. If the guy wants to cheap his motor and post it here, so be it. Do not heckle me for posting my comments in support. Cool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) Heckle? That's the kettle calling the pot black. The sarcastic "glad I never f***** up" wasn't necessary, nor appreciated. Cool? Nobody gets better if you don't realise your OWN stupidity contributing to your problem. Some people DO need that pointed out. They may not like it being pointed out... But till that point, it never was on their radar they could have had any hand in the malady at hand. As I was told: "Do it once, it's an honest mistake. Do it over and over...you're f***in' up and you BEST re-evaluate your program/plan!" Edited January 25, 2013 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben's Z Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 Update: ARP stepped up and took care of me. Shipped enough studs incase they were over stretched and one new nut. Head is on. One question. These studs fit N/A and turbo engines. As we talked about the instructions say torque to 60, but this is a turbo motor, FSM says 65 on turbo. Should I take up another 5 ft lbs? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben's Z Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 I'm with Leon, this guy hasn't done anything right from day one and has continually tried to cheap the job... I have to ask what kind of worn-out sh*t socket you were using that strips an ARP NUT!!! Comedy of errors is when its funny. This process has just been sad from day one... I might agree ARP might put a stamped part number on an instruction sheet, but common sense tells you these are METRIC and 7/16" is 11mm.... NOT 10! (3/8") RIGHT THERE YOU STOP AND MAKE A PHONE CALL. I've been doing this crap since 1979 and thats what I would have dine then, and its what I would do now. It may be their fault for not putting the right sheet in one of the thousands of boxes of parts they ship every day... But it's YOUR fault for going about engine assembly with blinders on to obvious things. My old instructor would say "you go to work brain-dead, don't expect good results." Its not rocket science, but you can't go about it unplugged or stoned, either! Tony seeing 7/16" on what was the wrong instruction sheet I use 1/2" 12 pt socket. It stripped it because you are right, it wasn't 1/2" it was 12mm. Again all the parts were correct. I think my picture sums up the packaging error. In no way feel I have cheaped on this job. It has taken longer than I have wanted with more hurdles than I care to remember. I believe had I taken it to the machine shop that finally got me fixed up, I would be well on my way. This motor has New or reman injectors timing chain guides tensioner(s) complete gaskets rings freeze plugs water pump oil pump rod and main bearings All from OE Tier 1 suppliers like Federal Mogul or equivalent. The head was given the blessing of the head machinist at the most well respected shop in Houston. All the rods were resized and the crank micro polished AFTER I installed the ARP rod bolts. All new valve seats and valves reground or replaced as needed. I am using refaced rocker arms from Delta. I have checked my wipe pattern more than once. You really don't have to be a dick all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 As stated previously, you go by the fastener manufacturer guidelines, NOT the FSM which deals with ONLY the OEM Hardware. "Being a Dick" by pointing out your culpability is rarely appreciated. Hence the pejorative connotation as "being a dick"... Appreciate it or not, YOU had a lot to do with this due to not putting thought into your actions. This was one thing Rudy drummed into our heads. He went through German Apprenticeship after WWII. You want to talk about HARD STANDARDS? What would YOU do if YOUR taskmaster was an ex-nazi storm trooper who survived Stalingrad? Do you think he cut much slack? There is a reward for excellence. There is none for mediocrity... As Peter Knaup once told me "my taskmaster was a dirty son-of-a-bitch, I HATED him. But because he was hard,I am who I am today, and for that I must say he was right in what he did!" Peter worked for Cosmodyne welding the seats that went to the moon on Apollo 11, along with many of the environmental weld nets for the life support systems. Let me ask you: do you want yourself to be Apollo Quality, or Kia Quality. The road to one is much easier, and dick-less! If you want to end up dick-less, then ignore the exhortations to put thought into every move you make. Trundle on blindly without giving anything a second thought. It's worked so well to this point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Greek Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Excerpt from posting by TodyD "I might agree ARP might put a stamped part number on an instruction sheet, but common sense tells you these are METRIC and 7/16" is 11mm.... NOT 10! (3/8")" Tony, I have a U20 Datsun Roadster with ARP head studs. These are 10mm studs. The nuts use a 1/2" 12 point socket (not 13, 13mm is slightly larger than 1/2" and was too loose and slipped and rounded off the nuts, sound familiar?!). Never assume anything! I won't argue that Ben has made some mistakes along the way. Some of these mistakes rest squarely on Ben's shoulders, some are from shoddy machine shop work. Without experience to use as a point of reference, it is difficult for a beginner to recognize problems right away. It is also difficult for a novice building his first engine to dictate to the "expert" at the machine shop. Many of us on this site have been fiddling with engines for 30 + years. I started with two-stroke engines off of a "jumping jack" compactor which I put on go-carts when I was 12 or so. The local Wacker dealer would give me boxes full of "take off" engines for me to fool with. I would need a lot more space than this to catalog the mistakes I made with those engines. Then I graduated to a really simple push-rod V6 in a 72 Capri when I was 16. I remember my first look at a babbit bearing after my experience with the roller bearings in the two-strokes I had been fiddling with. What the f$#k is this?? After that I re-built several Chevy V8's. I did not tackle my first OHC engine until I bought my first 2000 Datsun roadster years later. I still remember the "deer in the headlights" look I got from the machinist at the head shop when I told him I wanted all valve stem heights to be set identical. Circa 1983 in Spokane, WA was push-rod engines, PERIOD! I think his reply was something along the lines of 'don't worry son, we know what we're doing. I guess my point is, without confidence, and a point of reference that comes with experience, it is easy to get railroaded by local "experts" at machine shops, and parts suppliers. If one of "seasoned" experts from this forum had been able to drop by Ben's place, and shown him a few things in person, he would not have had a fraction of the problems he has had. I truly think Ben is trying hard to do this right, and wish I lived close enough to drop by and listen to it start up for the first time, that's the best part in my opinion! Cheers Ben, Enjoy the Ride! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStag Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Tony, You got me scared again. I have long ago decided that I was not going to build an engine or trans. A car? Sure. A man should know his limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStag Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Ben, Tony, ....... You really don't have to be a dick all the time. I've actually met Tony, and he has helped me a fair bit. He has a fair point, you might have seen this coming a bit earlier, and while you were correct that ARP tripped you up, one must not assume anything in an engine build; every component is suspect, every spec needs be triple checked. Tony has earned the right to be a pain by having felt the pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 "If one of "seasoned" experts from this forum had been able to drop by Ben's place, and shown him a few things in person, he would not have had a fraction of the problems he has had." My iPhone crapped out before I made a corollary edit which pointed out that straight off I was also the guy who told him to get with the local Z-Club FOR EXACTLY THAT REASON. I've seen this before, but you can only lead the horse to water. As stated, people need to know their limitations, many times ego won't allow that. Working on things that twist to 74,000+ rpms tends to make someone really humble in terms of STOPPING when ANYTHING doesn't look EXACTLY like it should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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