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My MS3/MS3X full sequential spark/fuel settings


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So it took me one afternoon to rip out the stock injection and get the car wired up and started on ms, it's taken me almost three months since to get things to where I'm pretty happy (one month delay thanks to the stock T3 blowing to bits).

 

My car:

83 l28et, p90a head, stock block with at least 206k miles.  Last time I tested I had low compression on #6 (110 vs. 145 on rest).  My compression tester was stolen along with my truck and I haven't replaced it yet.  I think I might have blown the ring back into place while letting VEAL tune the upper regions of my ve table whilst doing 3,500-5,000 rpm on the interstate in 3rd for about 20 minutes last week.  It's run silky smooth since that session after the lifters quieted down (I was worried that I had done something bad until I learned that was common with hydraulic lifter setups).

 

The non-stock stuff is:

3" K&N filter in the wheel well under the drivers side headlight, 3" piping up to turbo.

same-side ebay fmic

ebay type-s bov recirculated via a 1 and 3/8 line back into the intake just before the turbo.

EGR is deleted and blocked off.

I have had the intake and exhaust manifolds mildly ported by Lonewolf Performance.  They also welded a 1/2" T3 spacer onto the exhaust manifold and a 38mm tial wastegate flange as well.  I am very happy with their work.

60mm 240sx TB and TPS

EM USA external wastegate set to between 15 and 18psi depending on the gear.

Holset HY35 (used, fair condition)

New, bigger downpipe for Holset with first O2 bung located about 1' downstream of the turbo--catback still whatever came on the car cause it's in good shape and I like the sound characteristics

Ebay injectors which are supposed to be high impedance custom versions of the Bosch 403 injectors (~550cc) - so far they seem to be the real deal

Palnet 14mm fuel rail

Walbro 255

GM flex fuel sensor (the newer one)

D585 LS truck coils (round w/ heatsink style)

A set of Silverado shorty plug wires

A Bosch 505 idle valve (3 wire)

A homemade tach adapter

Innovate MTX-L wideband and gauge

Speedhut electronic fuel pressure gauge

Some ebay boost gauge retrofitted in place of the stock boost gauge which is semi-accurate

GM open element IAT sensor (between IC and TB) (using the CHTS as the coolant sensor for MS)

DIYautotune dizzy trigger wheel

DIYautotune supplied MS3/MS3X 3.57 with integrated knock sensor circuit

DIYautotune MS3 and MS3X harnesses (recommended -- not a single sync problem since the first startup).

 

I think that's most everything that's relevant to the tune.  I've found the flex fuel sensor is working pretty good in tandem with MS3 and I'm able to switch to different blend ratios without it throwing the ve map off.  My cold start settings are based on testing with approximately a 60% ethanol blend.  There's a decent chance that at the colder temperatures they may foul plugs with pump gas.  It started on the third try a little while ago with the block at 13 degrees so I'm pretty satisfied with the settings as they are (tomorrow morning at -10 should be interesting).  I'll probably dyno it soon.

 

You can see by my upper VE map that the porting work and bigger intake tract has shifted the peak torque region closer to 4,700rpm, if you've got a bone stock setup you might shift the fat area of the ve table a few hundred rpm to the left.

 

Here are the settings I'm using.  I hope these are useful for someone, lord knows I've gotten a lot farther a lot faster than I ever could have without the knowledge on this site and others.

 

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Small update after this morning's -6 ethanol starting adventure.  I changed the initial pwm cranking duty from 63.1 @ 20F to 100 @ -10, the other values remained the same (and have been tested much more extensively).  I also changed the crank to run 'taper' (it doesn't actually taper as far as I can tell) on the idle valve from whatever it was (5 or 6 seconds) to 15.  I found that I could get the car started this morning  but as soon as the valve began closing it would die immediately.  Having it open for 15 seconds allowed the motor to prime up enough to stay running with only a minor hiccup as the valve closed.

 

Ideally having the PWM valve close in a true tapering fashion would help with cold, cold starts as well as possibly having a crank to close temp/time based table.  Maybe these features will be incorporated in a future megasquirt firmware.

Edited by Chris83zxt
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He's using the DIY trigger wheel in the optical dizzy. It gives both cam and crank position..

 

I see that you are not using the settings for the second trigger active on as shown here: http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/using_diyautotune_nissan_trigger_discs.htm

You have second trigger active on rising edge. I'm using the instructions' setting of Poll level and have it set to Low. Is there a benefit to using rising edge? I'm asking because my tooth #1 angle is at 228deg and yours is at 259deg which are both different than DIY's setting of 345. 

 

How did you tune your advance table?

 

Which firmware are you running?

 

Can you post your msq file? 

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He's using the DIY trigger wheel in the optical dizzy. It gives both cam and crank position..

 

I see that you are not using the settings for the second trigger active on as shown here: http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/using_diyautotune_nissan_trigger_discs.htm

You have second trigger active on rising edge. I'm using the instructions' setting of Poll level and have it set to Low. Is there a benefit to using rising edge? I'm asking because my tooth #1 angle is at 228deg and yours is at 259deg which are both different than DIY's setting of 345. 

 

How did you tune your advance table?

 

Which firmware are you running?

 

Can you post your msq file? 

 

Yep I can post my msq file when I get home.  Firmware was whatever came on it (purchased late September from DIYautotune).  The advance table is a blend of what I saw from a few tunes here and I think I have mine falling off as boost rises faster than some others based on general research I did on the subject.

 

I couldn't get the car started using the recommended settings, it didn't seem to be seeing the trigger at all for whatever reason with poll level selected (maybe a glitch in the firmware version I'm using).  Having it triggered on rising edge on the other hand worked right off the bat, as did falling edge.  With falling edge triggering my wheel offset was very close to your value.  I chose rising edge based on something I read in the MS3X documentation, though I can't point to exactly what that was now.  I might be able to find my notes from the install as they were pretty thorough.

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It took me a bit to figure out what you had going on with the 0s in the two VE tables. Neat way to use the primary and secondary fuel load. Do you know that you can do the same thing with table switching? (but it would be VE Table 1 and VE Table 3.) Primary and secondary load was implemented more to blend VE values and allow a mix of tuning algorithms.  But the way you're using them works fine. In fact, I think you can get an effective 31x31 VE table if you combine table switching with this approach. Although I think your engine only *needs* the 16x16 resolution. Your VE table is pretty flat. I don't think you *need* all those RPM bins. In fact, going to 20psi, you might want more MAP bins.

 

It doesn't look like your version of TunerStudio has table smoothing (last button on upper right of dialog is grey). That might only be available in the betas. It is very helpful. I like to run VEAL for a while and then smooth the changed areas before running again. You end up with a nice smooth table that needs fewer bins.

 

How are you monitoring for knock? A lot of the tunes posted here are for really low compression engines (like 7:1). The most advance I've run is 36deg @ 3000RPM. But that was on carbureted NA engines

 

Something that might help with the idle is turning on the idle advance and idle ve. You can set the curve up to bump the advance a lot at slow speeds and also turn on idle rpm timing correction.

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It took me a bit to figure out what you had going on with the 0s in the two VE tables. Neat way to use the primary and secondary fuel load. Do you know that you can do the same thing with table switching? (but it would be VE Table 1 and VE Table 3.) Primary and secondary load was implemented more to blend VE values and allow a mix of tuning algorithms.  But the way you're using them works fine. In fact, I think you can get an effective 31x31 VE table if you combine table switching with this approach. Although I think your engine only *needs* the 16x16 resolution. Your VE table is pretty flat. I don't think you *need* all those RPM bins. In fact, going to 20psi, you might want more MAP bins.

 

It doesn't look like your version of TunerStudio has table smoothing (last button on upper right of dialog is grey). That might only be available in the betas. It is very helpful. I like to run VEAL for a while and then smooth the changed areas before running again. You end up with a nice smooth table that needs fewer bins.

 

How are you monitoring for knock? A lot of the tunes posted here are for really low compression engines (like 7:1). The most advance I've run is 36deg @ 3000RPM. But that was on carbureted NA engines

 

Something that might help with the idle is turning on the idle advance and idle ve. You can set the curve up to bump the advance a lot at slow speeds and also turn on idle rpm timing correction.

 

I felt I needed the higher resolutions at light and medium loads since that's where I spend most of the time driving the car and where I want the mileage paybacks for going sequential.  At boost I'm just throwing a lot of fuel at the motor and it seems to be just fine with that.  It might be that the linux version of TS doesn't do smoothing.  I've been tuning on my win8 (blech) laptop but I didn't want to do the original post or the photo work necessary on it so I installed TS on my linux desktop (and haven't bothered entering my registration info either--that might be it).  About a week ago after the tune was running well I went in and smoothed the 3d table manually and since then I've spent a couple of hours in VEAL set for very hard changes so it de-smoothed some areas, which I'm fine with since the car is running like a top at the moment.  Some of the peaks and valleys I imagine are due to the transitions on the afr and spark table (and small variations within the motor itself).

 

I'm not currently monitoring for knock at all.  I did have the hardware installed in the MS3 unit.  One of my next projects will be trying to make the stock knock sensor work with it.  If I can't get that working, I'll switch to a Bosch wideband setup.  Meanwhile I do have a spare block from an 81' if worse comes to worse.  I did the majority of the early ve tuning running on 87 pump swill up to 9psi and didn't have any perceptible problems.

 

The idle is actually quite smooth between 750-800 rpm with these settings, that might have been what I spent the most time tuning overall.  You'll notice on the ve map I made a plateau in the idle region and I also tweaked the ignition advance table in the idle region to help keep it stable.

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Chris,

What did you come up with for your d585 mount? Pics?

 

A piece of thick sheet metal on the valve cover.  Much less fancy than I've seen elsewhere (including what you were working on).  I am happy with the location though, and will probably pay a shop to machine a cleaner cut version out of aluminum, since my sheet metal is already rusting in a few spots.

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Here's a pic per request, though I'm a bit embarrassed at this point to show my engine bay.  I'm about 1/3 of the way finished soldering connections, thus all the wirenuts.  I plan on having that bracket reproduced in a thicker aluminum sheet and then mounting small bus bars on the bottom side for the grounds needed nearby (2x per coil, injectors).

 

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I'm getting about 25 highway mpg now vs. the 30 I was getting before the port work, bigger turbo and bigger downpipe.  Fair enough trade off I suppose.

 

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  • 1 month later...

CAS plug wiring.

Since I've gotten multiple requests for this info I thought I'd post it here:

If you turn the distributor over and look at the plug receptacle from the bottom with the receptacle on top of the dist shaft, the top right is 12V positive (B/W), bottom right is ground (Black), the other two are the two optical sensors - top left is outside ring of slots ((G/Y) and bottom left is inside ring (G/B).

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  • 1 month later...

got any info on that tach adapter? I'm using the same coils and have been wondering how to set it up..

 

It's the "Toyota style" that's diagramed on the megasquirt forums and a few other places.  I used an O'Reily relay modified per the diagram all taped up and mounted to the driver's side strut tower in the engine bay.  I ran the MS tach wire out to it and then ran the signal back in through the stock tach wire that comes out next to where the stock coil is mounted.

 

I'm looking for advice on the timing table since my engine is about to be rebuilt with some major internal changes:

http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/117932-timing-advice-needed/

Edited by Chris83zxt
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Looking back at my OP I have not updated that I relocated my IAT to the outlet end tank of my intercooler.  Heatsoak was just causing too many issues with it mounted inside the engine bay in the intake piping.  I'm content that its done right now that it's on the IC.  I would recommend that anyone just starting to research their megasquirt setup plan on getting it outside of the engine compartment if at all possible, it'll save you idle tuning headaches at the very least.

Edited by Chris83zxt
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