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richie2619

R200 CLSD

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Whitehead performance in Canada says they have an (OEM) R200 3.70 CLSD for sale as a complete unit. From what I've read in here is, the 260-280Z with the R200 only came as an open unit. The post is on ebay and I posted it below. I've already emailed them for details but my main concern is, Did they swap this from a car that used 12mm bolts? Still waiting for a reply from them but I don't want to get fleeced if they try to blow smoke!

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nissan-OEM-3-70-R200-LSD-Diff-Clutch-Limited-Slip-Differential-Datsun-240Z-280Z-/251428771481?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a8a529699&vxp=mtr

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Not quite sure what your concern is. Are you asking if they took the LSD carrier out of a 3.7 diff that used 12mm ring gear bolts and put it in a 3.7 diff that used 10mm ring gear bolts? 3.7 open diffs are not common, and it wouldn't be worth their while to swap. Regardless, Whitehead Performance has been around for decades. Their guys know their stuff. I'd trust that it is what they say it is.

 

Nigel

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Looks like a standard, used Z31T (300ZXT) unit, which has 12mm ring bolts-3.70 is a factory ratio for these.  If you want a cleaned up, used R200 CLSD with a 3.70 ratio, buy it.  I don't know for sure, but I expect that their bearing inspection consisted of turning the pinion flange and feeling for roughness (that's all I do); they may or may not have disassembled it.  To check lash, they put a run-out gauge on it after opening the cover (it is usually fine).  I have 2 of these and none of them have had any observable ring gear wear-that metal is tough-they all look brand new inside.  If you want to swap the CLSD carrier into a 3.54 diff, it is a simple afternoon project once you have all the parts clean and on your work bench.  Is it worth the price-I dunno...depends on what your time is worth.  It takes a hard day of scrubbing and scraping to clean all the goo off of a 40 year old diff.  It takes another day to paint it.  The pinion seals on these diffs are usually fine, but if you want to use your existing driveshaft, you might need to swap the pinion flange with your current unit, which takes an air impact wrench and sometimes a gear puller if it is stuck.  You will need to order some side-axle seals, which are special order from your local parts store, usually stocked at the warehouse at the "hub," a day or two away.  The going rate for these units on hybridz is about $750; one shows up in the classifieds every 2-3 months.  I have seen them sell on ebay for as little as $500 and as much as $1250.  Shipping is usually $80-100.  If two day's work cleaning and painting is worth $200, this is a fair purchase.  If you are putting this in an S30, you want a smooth rear cover instead of the finned one, and you will need an R200 mustache bar (saw one on ebay the other day).   If you are watching every penny, it is priced on the high side. I see nothing that looks fishy, no reason not to trust the advertisement.

Edited by RebekahsZ

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I was torn between the R200CLSD and the R180 LSD conversion from a WRX STi.  For my set-up ... a 240Z with a 2.8L (E31 & flat tops) and triple webers ... the R180 route was the way to go.  It was easier and lighter.  I used John Coffey's stub axles and it was a simple bolt in.  If I look at the cost of the cost of the R180, the stub axles, and the cost of rebuilding the 1/2 axles professionally ... it was about $1,000.  So the R200 at $1000 on eBay seems like a decent deal.  The R180 I have was 3.7 as well.  If I were building a higher output turbo motor set-up ... I'd consider the R200 and also go with a CV conversion.

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Whitehead performance in Canada says they have an (OEM) R200 3.70 CLSD for sale as a complete unit. From what I've read in here is, the 260-280Z with the R200 only came as an open unit. 

I think the misunderstanding here is that the OP doesn't know that the R200 CLSD came from a 300ZX, not a 260-280Z.  It's a swap, not an original 260-280Z part.

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Looks like a standard, used Z31T (300ZXT) unit, which has 12mm ring bolts-3.70 is a factory ratio for these.  If you want a cleaned up, used R200 CLSD with a 3.70 ratio, buy it.  I don't know for sure, but I expect that their bearing inspection consisted of turning the pinion flange and feeling for roughness (that's all I do); they may or may not have disassembled it.  To check lash, they put a run-out gauge on it after opening the cover (it is usually fine).  I have 2 of these and none of them have had any observable ring gear wear-that metal is tough-they all look brand new inside.  If you want to swap the CLSD carrier into a 3.54 diff, it is a simple afternoon project once you have all the parts clean and on your work bench.  Is it worth the price-I dunno...depends on what your time is worth.  It takes a hard day of scrubbing and scraping to clean all the goo off of a 40 year old diff.  It takes another day to paint it.  The pinion seals on these diffs are usually fine, but if you want to use your existing driveshaft, you might need to swap the pinion flange with your current unit, which takes an air impact wrench and sometimes a gear puller if it is stuck.  You will need to order some side-axle seals, which are special order from your local parts store, usually stocked at the warehouse at the "hub," a day or two away.  The going rate for these units on hybridz is about $750; one shows up in the classifieds every 2-3 months.  I have seen them sell on ebay for as little as $500 and as much as $1250.  Shipping is usually $80-100.  If two day's work cleaning and painting is worth $200, this is a fair purchase.  If you are putting this in an S30, you want a smooth rear cover instead of the finned one, and you will need an R200 mustache bar (saw one on ebay the other day).   If you are watching every penny, it is priced on the high side. I see nothing that looks fishy, no reason not to trust the advertisement.

I greatly,  appreciate this info. Thank you very much. I'm pretty sure I'm going with QDF7L. Spend it now, save it later!

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The Z31 CLSD is bullet proof.  I did extra clutch "upgrade" on mine and the only drawback is that it bangs hard on low-speed turns, like pulling away from a stop sign.  I haven't run one with only the stock clutch pack.  I beat mine up really badly and it takes it like a trooper.

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The Z31 CLSD is bullet proof.  I did extra clutch "upgrade" on mine and the only drawback is that it bangs hard on low-speed turns, like pulling away from a stop sign.  I haven't run one with only the stock clutch pack.  I beat mine up really badly and it takes it like a trooper.

It'll probably be a month or so before I make a purchase. If I miss out on the Z31T, I'm sure another one will be available. I value all the input I've read so I can make an educated decision. 

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I know I push these a lot- But if I may inquire, have you considered the OBX lsd?

I looked at them but I heard too many stories about poor tooling and internal parts breaking. I have a close friend that races and some of his associates weren't satisfied. He keeps pushing the KAAZ SBN2655 but they chatter a bit too much for street use. I was almost sold on the Quaife but I found some shims that are perfect S13-S14 swap. I'm just about convinced to buy a JDM on ebay and refresh the clutches.

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I looked at them but I heard too many stories about poor tooling and internal parts breaking.

Is that from people here on this site or other places?  If its from here- Can I trouble you to clue me into where you found them? 

 

I ask because I know of a lot of people who run these differentials on these forums, with a lot of threads covering the differentials.  The general consensus is as far as I am aware, that nearly everyone is pretty damn happy with their differentials.  I will admit that there are some small concerns with the units, but by no means are they "scary" (unless left undealt with), and are SUPER  cheap and SUPER easy to rectify.  There are 3 main concerns with the differentials-  1 is that theyre assembled by who knows who in china- And the orientation of the gears isnt always correct (Wont break anything, just means they work the opposite of how they should lol- and fwiw, this seems to have only been an issue with very very old original units, again to my knowledge-i havent seen anyone with a newer unit cross this).  The differentials are amazingly simple inside, and its extremely easy to take them apart, give them an inspection, and put them back together (correctly!).  The other  concern(s) is in regards to the hardware-  Namely the housing bolts, and the spring washers.  A gentleman offers a kit for like 20 some bucks that upgrades all of the bolts, and uses mcmaster spring washers (very good quality).  These washers add some preload, and the factory supplied one from obx are known to flatten down overtime and offer less preload-  The lsd will still work fine mind you, you just dont have the benefits assocaited from having that preload. 

 

It really is as simple as that.  Everyone I know of who has done those very simple steps has been *extremely* happy with their differential, and I do not personally know of a *single* person who has done them, and had *any* issues (If someone DOES know of someone who HAS done them, and still had issues- Please let me know!)-  Some of these people are running some fairly impressive turbo or v8 applications putting 400+ pounds of torque to their rear wheels. The only people I know of (again, personally) who have had any issues, didnt do these steps and simply slapped them in. I am included in this group, and absolutely *love* this differential.  Ive got an l28et powered 240z that put down 360 pounds of torque to the rear, not neck breaking mind you but its gotten the job done just fine (I stacked my washers for a bit of extra preload in my lsd, on the street its pretty damn good, it chatters a bit while moving around in reverse, but moving forward its a breeze, at least compared to any car ive driven equipped with a kaaz/cusco/tomei/nismo/etc)

 

If you havent looked at some of the threads covering the differentials around here on hybridz, Id wager itd proabbly  be worth your time and would love to suggest you give them a look :)  The units really *arent* scary once you know whats up with them, and theres some brilliant guides/threads on here which show how amazingly simple and easy it is to make these lsds be, in my opinion, some of the best bang for the buck units you can get your hands on right now.  I picked mine up for 250'ish shipped brand new in the box, slapped that bolt/washer kit into it, and used some picket change to buy the spacers to mount my ring gear (since it is a 240sx unit). 

 

If you have any questions about them Id be glad to help if I am able to do so

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Is that from people here on this site or other places?  If its from here- Can I trouble you to clue me into where you found them? 

 

I ask because I know of a lot of people who run these differentials on these forums, with a lot of threads covering the differentials.  The general consensus is as far as I am aware, that nearly everyone is pretty damn happy with their differentials.  I will admit that there are some small concerns with the units, but by no means are they "scary" (unless left undealt with), and are SUPER  cheap and SUPER easy to rectify.  There are 3 main concerns with the differentials-  1 is that theyre assembled by who knows who in china- And the orientation of the gears isnt always correct (Wont break anything, just means they work the opposite of how they should lol- and fwiw, this seems to have only been an issue with very very old original units, again to my knowledge-i havent seen anyone with a newer unit cross this).  The differentials are amazingly simple inside, and its extremely easy to take them apart, give them an inspection, and put them back together (correctly!).  The other  concern(s) is in regards to the hardware-  Namely the housing bolts, and the spring washers.  A gentleman offers a kit for like 20 some bucks that upgrades all of the bolts, and uses mcmaster spring washers (very good quality).  These washers add some preload, and the factory supplied one from obx are known to flatten down overtime and offer less preload-  The lsd will still work fine mind you, you just dont have the benefits assocaited from having that preload. 

 

It really is as simple as that.  Everyone I know of who has done those very simple steps has been *extremely* happy with their differential, and I do not personally know of a *single* person who has done them, and had *any* issues (If someone DOES know of someone who HAS done them, and still had issues- Please let me know!)-  Some of these people are running some fairly impressive turbo or v8 applications putting 400+ pounds of torque to their rear wheels. The only people I know of (again, personally) who have had any issues, didnt do these steps and simply slapped them in. I am included in this group, and absolutely *love* this differential.  Ive got an l28et powered 240z that put down 360 pounds of torque to the rear, not neck breaking mind you but its gotten the job done just fine (I stacked my washers for a bit of extra preload in my lsd, on the street its pretty damn good, it chatters a bit while moving around in reverse, but moving forward its a breeze, at least compared to any car ive driven equipped with a kaaz/cusco/tomei/nismo/etc)

 

If you havent looked at some of the threads covering the differentials around here on hybridz, Id wager itd proabbly  be worth your time and would love to suggest you give them a look :)  The units really *arent* scary once you know whats up with them, and theres some brilliant guides/threads on here which show how amazingly simple and easy it is to make these lsds be, in my opinion, some of the best bang for the buck units you can get your hands on right now.  I picked mine up for 250'ish shipped brand new in the box, slapped that bolt/washer kit into it, and used some picket change to buy the spacers to mount my ring gear (since it is a 240sx unit). 

 

If you have any questions about them Id be glad to help if I am able to do so

No, not on this site. These are guys who race, that I know personally and professionally. I'm a mechanic but not an auto mechanic. I work on heavy equipment so we're inclined to go with the idea that, "if there's smoke there's fire." OBX may be getting a bad rap but, until they're proven, I don't want my car to be a test bed. The VLSD out of the Silva has been proven to take a beating and they're very affordable so that's the diff I chose!

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No, not on this site. These are guys who race, that I know personally and professionally. I'm a mechanic but not an auto mechanic. I work on heavy equipment so we're inclined to go with the idea that, "if there's smoke there's fire." OBX may be getting a bad rap but, until they're proven, I don't want my car to be a test bed. The VLSD out of the Silva has been proven to take a beating and they're very affordable so that's the diff I chose!

They are relativley "proven" around here, at least to me anyways. BUT I cant argue with them apples :)  By all means I understand the concern/caution!  You really cant go wrong with some of the other options you have listed.  Im iffy personally on vlsds, but then again my forum name is "sideways"- and Im known to be a bit "tail happy".

 

What kind of racing are you intending on doing? 

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The OBX is a good unit for the price.  It has the same drawbacks as other ATBs but if you adjust the suspension to work with it the unit it is good in a race environment.  IMHO,  the OSG Super Lock is a great diff for racing and much better then the ATBs on the S30 chassis.  For street use the ATBs are a great choice.

 

And Whitehead in Canada is good people.  I would not worry about anything they have to sell.

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The OBX is a good unit for the price.  It has the same drawbacks as other ATBs but if you adjust the suspension to work with it the unit it is good in a race environment.  IMHO,  the OSG Super Lock is a great diff for racing and much better then the ATBs on the S30 chassis.  For street use the ATBs are a great choice.

 

And Whitehead in Canada is good people.  I would not worry about anything they have to sell.

 

Mm OS Giken.  If youve the money to spend those are some very nice units.  We used a few of those with remarkable results on some of the Vipers.  Very impressive units in my experience.

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The Z31 CLSD is bullet proof.  I did extra clutch "upgrade" on mine and the only drawback is that it bangs hard on low-speed turns, like pulling away from a stop sign.  I haven't run one with only the stock clutch pack.  I beat mine up really badly and it takes it like a trooper.

Question about your extra clutch upgrade. My diff will be delivered on Monday and it was very inexpensive. I expect a fair amount of wear and every time I google the part I'm looking for, I get referred to places that sell new diffs. Not rebuild parts. Any advice?

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