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The "Ultimate" IRS Swap for S30s


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My Z is my midlife crisis car! It used to be my young and rebellious car. Someday it will be my old-timey car.

Lol you guys get butt hurt over the most trivial things. Armchair coaches have always been funny to watch and listen to.

Hopefully sooner rather than later. Planning on learning to run the waterjet this week so I can cut at night, since getting the current operator to cut stuff for me is like pulling hairs. Hopefully ca

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Will get with your finisher and make sure they DO NOT spray anything in future spindle pin holes. I have TWO large bolts stuck in TWO suspension uprights and no clue how I am getting them out at this point. The finish is toast. Dont do this to any other unsuspecting customers...

 

Mike

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Will got jokes....   He seems to get getting a funnier guy as his well earned success with these kits grows.  Yes My build seems to be creeping, partly due to my inability to stay on task and shovel money at my project..........Yes These brakes will work just fine.  I plan on getting some video of the car on the road from all angles.  ( so I will put the keys down to the other toy and concentrate on the Z).   lol.  I spent my birthday working in the shop wasting time putting in sound deadening in the car cause everyone knows it is a waste with a set of longtubes, 3" exhaust, a big nasty cam in a blown ls3.......

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I'm sure the brakes are fine for a street car.  However, my experience has shown that perfectly fine streetcar brakes are not great Ultimate Track Car Challenge level brakes.  I  Need something that's going to withstand 30 minute sessions four sessions per day for three days straight, in a car that will exceed 170MPH (Back straight at VIR) once every lap and 155mph (Front straight at VIR) once every lap for those 30 minutes. I'll take pics of what I came up with later today.  the 355mm rotor will not work and is being shipped back.  The 12.88 rotor I have will work, but I'll have to get thicker rings.

 

Mike

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Mike has brought up that he ended up having to remove all of the powder coat on the Upright-Strut Tube connection. There is a good chance y'all will have to do the same. I knew it would be tight but didn't think it would be this tight. When I welded them up I didn't account for the powder coat thickness like I should have. If you have any questions/concerns regarding this issue shoot me a PM.

 

Mike also let me know that he had to clean up the spindle bolt bore on the upright to remove the powder coating to get the bolt to go through. I didn't even think about the powder coat getting in there and making to bolt not fit, so that is truly my bad. I would recommend taking a .625 drill bit and running through the bore. The bolt is a tight fit in there to begin with so any paint will make it that much harder. I generally had to tap the bolt through when I test fit them on my car. So don't be alarmed if the bolt doesn't fall through as it is tight to begin with, but the powder coat might make it too tight and need removed. Sorry for this issue as well.

 

I would like to thank all of you for being the guinea pigs on this setup and unfortunately these are some things that come with prototype setups. Hopefully the slight price break y'all got for being the first ones at least partially makes up for the troubles. Like before though, feel free to contact me if you feel the need to do so.

 

Just realized Mike already posted about the spindle bolt issue, don't know how I missed those couple of posts. In regards to that, I never drilled the hole out. It is DOM tubing with a .625 ID that fits the 5/8 bolt nice, it is a little tight, but I think that is a good thing. A 5/8 drill bit should be fine to run through the bore.

 

Thanks guys.

 

-Will

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I was really surprised that the spindle bolts, which are really strong, BENT when I was pressing them out.  This should give you guys an idea about how much the powder coating reduced the size and how unforgiving the stuff is.  Take the time to clean them out thoroughly and make sure you don't OVERsize the spindle-pin holes.  Those bolts need to fit in there snug, but not bind.

 

I'm also removing the powder coating on the face of the upright where the hub bolts up.  We see brake rotor temps in excess of 700 degrees at the track, and my guess is the powder coating will met under those conditions on contact surfaces like that and the caliper mount tabs, so I'll be making sure to remove those as well.  Otherwise, torqued bolts can become loose with the heat.

 

You street use guys won't have to deal with this. 

 

BLKMGK, based on my basic mockup, it looks like the cobra caliper would have plenty of room to mount.  The question would be offset for caliper centering over the rotor. The rotor hat depth is the limiter here.  But you'd probably have to send your stuff off to Will. 

 

I know there might seem to be some bitching on my part over the issues I've run into, but this is no reflection on Will or his parts.  I'm pointing out the issues so others don't make the mistakes I made.  That spindle pin stunt was stupid and I should have taken my dial caliper out and measured before trying to drive them in further than they wanted to go.  Where it became complicated was trying to get those pieces to sit flat on a press while lining everything up to get the offending bolts pressed back out.  The four hours I wasted was because of my own stupid human tricks.

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Any of you guys assembled the outer Ford Stub Axle onto the center axle yet?  Wondering how that included snap ring is going to pass through the spline, as it sits up pretty high in the groove.

 

Nevermind... Just re-read the instructions... The outer just floats... 

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Well just looked for photos and apparently I quit taking pictures after getting the snap ring off the inner CV joint. I thought I took a lot, but apparently the greasy hands made me quit after I got in too deep. The process goes like this:

 

  1. Take the complete F150 front CV axle and remove all (4) CV Boot clamps. You can just cut them off as they are pretty much impossible to remove and reuse. Take care not to cut the OUTER CV Boot(The end with splines).
  2. Go ahead and remove the INNER CV housing(The flanged part). It should slide all the way off once the boot comes off of it. This part is trash.
  3. Then clean the grease off of the axle end and the tripod joint to see the snap ring holding the tripod joint onto the axle. Remove the external snap ring from the axle shaft and the tripod joint should slide off. Remove the INNER CV boot now. All of these parts are trash.
  4. Now carefully slide the OUTER CV boot off the shaft. This part will be reused, so take care not to damage it.
  5. Now use a chop saw, cut off wheel, etc to cut the axle shaft off as CLOSE to the OUTER CV joint as possible but taking care NOT to cut INTO the OUTER CV joint. I used a 4.5" grinder with a cut-off wheel as my weapon of choice. The goal here is to cut the shaft short enough so the CV can be rotated far enough until the (6) CV balls fall out. With that shaft still in the shaft hits the housing before the ball can fall out. So once you cut the shaft off use a hammer or something to get the CV joint to rotate until you can remove (1) of the CV balls. Then continue to rotate the CV joint other ways until you can remove enough balls so the whole joint comes out.
  6. Once you have the joint out take the inner "star" with the shaft going through it and put it on a vice/pipe/etc so the shaft is not support but the CV "star" is. The goal here is to get at the back side of the joint to hammer the shaft through the joint. So the shaft needs to be able to move but the CV "star" must be fixed. A piece of pipe that happens to be sized with an OD slightly larger than the shaft would be ideal, but I used a vice tightened up slightly larger than the shaft. I recommend marking which side is the "inside"(uncut side) of the CV star as it is directional and can only go in the CV joint one way without binding up. If you don't mark it or remember, you have to use trial and error figuring out which way it goes into the outer housing(Ask me how I know...I guessed wrong lol).
  7. Now that your fixture is setup place the CV "star" with the cut side of the shaft facing down(You will hammer on the uncut side). Now I HIGHLY recommend a second set of hands. This can be done by yourself, but it is a lot more difficult. You need a hammer, and 2 flat head screw drivers, and maybe a socket to hammer on instead of hitting the shaft directly. Clean off the grease so you can see what is going on. There is a snap ring the is the spring type(It springs out once it gets past the splines to keep the shaft from coming out). The goal here is the use the 2 flat heads to force the snap ring to compress below the splines so the shaft can slide out.
  8. Use one flat head to press on one side of the snap ring and use the other to press on the opposite side. Push in on both of them to compress the snap ring down below the level of the splines. Watch your fingers/hands doing this because if you aren't pushing the screw drivers directly towards each other you can rotate the CV joint and the flat heads will slip off and go flying towards your hands. No one wants to be impaled, so be careful.
  9. Once you press in the snap ring use the hammer to hammer the shaft down through the CV joint. If you have the snap ring compressed all the way, it shouldn't take but a couple of decent hits to get it to slide through the CV joint. If it doesn't seem like its going then you need to compress it more with the flat heads.
  10. Once the shaft is out of the CV joint its cleanup time. Since there will probably be metal shavings in everything take special care to clean everything very well. The CV "star", the 6 balls, the cage, and the outer housing need cleaned until they are spotless.
  11. Once everything is cleaned its time to reassemble the F150 OUTER CV joint. It can be kind of tricky since they are pretty tight when they are new. You have to put the inner star, cage, and one ball in at a time. Start with one ball then just roll the star around getting it close to its limit of falling out and insert the other balls. The balls in my CV were very tight going through the cage so you will probably have to tap them in with a hammer. Everything is hardened so you shouldn't have to worry about scratching them unless your hammer is really hard.
  12. You can use grease before you start if you like, or you can grease it after you get it together. The grease will probably help with the reassembly some, but makes everything really slippery. But anyways, grease the CV joint up very well.
  13. Now the 930 axle can slide into the F150 CV axle. Then you take the CV boot you saved and put it on the CV joint. Be careful to not let the 930 axle slide out of the CV joint after the boot is clamped on, it can be quite difficult to find the spot where the axle and the splines line up perfectly to get them re-engaged(Figured that out the hard way too).
  14. NAPA has been my go-to source for good CV boot clamps. They have the OEM style crimp clamps that are probably the best ones. Everywhere else had the pull through then bend over style ones that I wasn't a fan of. You can crimp them with pliers or the proper tool, I've done it both ways. The proper crimp tool works better but pliers work decent. You can fill the boot with some extra grease before you crimp it on so it acts as a reservoir. ZIP ties work as well for the CV boots if you have some good ones(The EMPI 930 CV joints actually come with zip ties for there boots. They appear to work well).
  15. Now that the outer CV joint is taken care of its time to do the inner. Put the boot on first then the boot flange, then the 930 CV joint. Grease everything up really well the crimp the boot to the axle and the boot flange. The boot will probably still be able to slide on the axle shaft, but make sure to take care it doesn't get very far off from where it will want to ride once the boot flange is tightened up to the CV joint.
  16. Put the snap ring on the end up of the shaft that keeps the shaft from coming out of the CV joint.
  17. Now the axle is ready to bolt up to the stub axles.

Think that pretty much sums up the process. I wish I had some pictures for you guys, but I don't. The process isn't too bad. Just very greasy. Reassembling the F150 CV joint is probably the hardest part. Getting the ball back in can be pretty difficult, especially the last one.

 

If you have any troubles let me know or call me and I can try to help you out.

 

-Will

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I was really surprised that the spindle bolts, which are really strong, BENT when I was pressing them out.  This should give you guys an idea about how much the powder coating reduced the size and how unforgiving the stuff is.  Take the time to clean them out thoroughly and make sure you don't OVERsize the spindle-pin holes.  Those bolts need to fit in there snug, but not bind.

 

I'm also removing the powder coating on the face of the upright where the hub bolts up.  We see brake rotor temps in excess of 700 degrees at the track, and my guess is the powder coating will met under those conditions on contact surfaces like that and the caliper mount tabs, so I'll be making sure to remove those as well.  Otherwise, torqued bolts can become loose with the heat.

 

You street use guys won't have to deal with this. 

 

BLKMGK, based on my basic mockup, it looks like the cobra caliper would have plenty of room to mount.  The question would be offset for caliper centering over the rotor. The rotor hat depth is the limiter here.  But you'd probably have to send your stuff off to Will. 

 

I know there might seem to be some bitching on my part over the issues I've run into, but this is no reflection on Will or his parts.  I'm pointing out the issues so others don't make the mistakes I made.  That spindle pin stunt was stupid and I should have taken my dial caliper out and measured before trying to drive them in further than they wanted to go.  Where it became complicated was trying to get those pieces to sit flat on a press while lining everything up to get the offending bolts pressed back out.  The four hours I wasted was because of my own stupid human tricks.

 

Not taken as bitching Mike, you shouldn't have been the one to use a dial caliper to measure the holes, I should have checked them after powder coating but I didn't. It's my fault and a do appreciate you letting everyone else know hopefully before they ended up in the same situation.

 

As far as the cobra calipers go, BLKMGK if you have a cobra caliper/bracket you are willing to send me, I will be more than happy to see what I can do. Or if you can get true Cobra calipers from parts stores I can pick one up, measure it, then return it. Shoot me a PM if you are interested or know if I can pick one up locally and return it. If the spacing isn't too far off and everything can be worked out in the rotor hat then its easy to just change the mounting holes. It does get a bit more difficult if it needs a separate caliper bracket to get the spacing right. Will the Cobra caliper work on the 12.2 inch wilwood rotors? What is the cobra rotor thickness?

 

-Will

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The rear Cobra rotor is smaller diameter than what you spec in this kit.  It's sourced from a 93-04 Cobra. BLKMGK would be far better off sending you his caliper/rotor/mount so you can see what's what...

 

As to the Ford F150 outer joint... I rebuilt one yesterday afternoon and it was tight.  After being re-assembled it has minimal articulation.  These things are stupid Chinese puzzle territory. Hahahaha... Lost a bearing last night for the second one, so the shop will likely be dismantled today to find the damned thing... Ugh... GREAT deal of force was used in assembling the first one... more than I had expected, but I don't play with CV axles much, so I'm sure it's "normal"

 

Edit... Just threw the second one in the trash... Bearing cage was DISTORTED... Don't use "to much" force on them.

 

Off to the parts store... Again!

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Wow! I'm so late seeing this topic...

 

Excellent initiative, great engineering, outstanding work, good communication, follow through, etc. Not sure I understand everything, but I've read it all and am ready to dive in and work out the details if you're going to do a second run, wfritts911.

 

Did you ever get a weight on the whole assembly? How does it compare to the stock assembly? The Q-45 setup? PM sent as well!

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I'm willing to send caliper, rotor, and any mounting hardware I have. I will point out that since this caliper uses the main pads for it's parking function that this rotor need not be used and I'm more than willing to go with a Coleman or other rotor. One quirk with this setup - the calipers apparently have to be mounted on swapped sides to work properly with the parking brake cable - this puts the bleeder at the bottom. Not optimal but apparently this is how it's supposed to go. I'll shoot you a PM, hopefully I'm not the only one interested!

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