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A musician's therapist (The $300 Z)


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13 hours ago, Zetsaz said:

 

Thank you! I'm really hoping I can get to the wiring portion of things tomorrow, but there's still so much left the more I look at it. Still need to modify the center exit. 

I'm almost tempted to finally buy a 3D printer and design some things. If I could redesign the stock defrost pieces and the center vent the install would be much cleaner

 

What has to be changed about the center exit? 

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1 hour ago, calZ said:

 

What has to be changed about the center exit? 

Center exit on the 280z is one big rectangle hole. Normally it would be what splits the air out to the side vents as well, but the vintage air has 3 independent exists instead. 

 

Center exit needs the side pieces cut and blocked off, and the entrance blocked with something that has an appropriate hole in the center. 

 

I'll load pics when I'm not on my phone

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Hmmmm.. What are you making there Omar...? 

20201129_191232.jpg

 

Mocked up the plate with scrap metal I had laying around. Figured I could at least see if I liked the location if visibility would be good where they were recessed just like the original controls. I thought I was sooooo clever using the screw holes in the panel as potential snap plates until I realized they have "ramps" towards the front of the plate and I can't actually snap them in... 

20201129_191419.jpg.0b5ccd7920c8776ee2aa54ee63088b11.jpg20201129_191428.jpg.d304fe5666da4fec55e1cf02660aee57.jpg

20201129_202744.jpg.4164b816b80acba3b306afffef302cad.jpg20201129_202751.jpg.ec45d3787bf5cd1f49aa1d03477eb0bf.jpg

 

I have a 3D print file ready to go, courtesy of @seattlejester and I'm just going to epoxy or plastic weld it to the panel. 

 

Also realized today that my place of work has 3D printers... Checking if I'm allowed to use them first thing in the morning haha. 

Edited by Zetsaz
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Well, the school's only printer actually in the building apparently has some heating issues on large projects. BUT I made a thing... my cousin is printing it now. we'll see how it turns out. This is a new center exit vent. Figured while I'm having fun making an ecu bracket, having a new dizzy cap and TPS bracket printed, I might as well try my hand at some basic parts and see how they turn out.

 

The defrost vents are too complicated, and honestly I could just make small brackets to mount the smaller vintage air pieces that were included instead of complicating things just to get a 90 degree bend that looks original to avoid putting a loop in one place on the ducting. 

 

 

128877238_1094718494312428_7394105637379603956_n.png

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Lookin' good Omar!    With my VintageAir setup there is noticeably less flow thru the center vents.  It may be the hose bends restricting flow or maybe the center hole in the evaporator outlet just doesn't flow as well.  Maybe you can verify?  The the center vent hose in my setup has a pretty sharp and long (~120 deg) bend from the center evaporator outlet to the stock center vent fairing which I was able to use as-is.  Designing a shorter fairing would have allowed for an easier, less sharp and possibly better flowing path.  It will be interesting to see how well your setup performs.

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I'm working pretty slow right now, but I'd be happy to verify once things are put together and wired up!

I'm slightly more concerned about the defrost right now. Stock vents are usable, but require some... interesting bends.

image.png.37ad6cddabdc2b40eaad5f30c0a5a655.png

 

I believe this installation is with the compac and not the mini, but mine is similar. I may end up mocking up some basic brackets for the small defrost vents they included, but I'm also bothered by the possibility of the way it looks from the top with out those vents fully covering the openings on the finish panel. 

 

Edit: by the way, Ross. I think those fittings you sent will actually work perfectly. Especially the 90s. I know they're typically supposed to go with the threaded end in towards the cabin, but I think I'm going to use them the opposite direction and they'll actually work great to plug into some of the stock AC hoses I had into the engine bay. 

Edited by Zetsaz
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I used the vintage air defrost vents and just made some simple metal brackets to mount them up. It doesn’t really line up with the metal piece that goes at the back of the dash so just drilled a bunch of holes. If you don’t care to retain the stock look it doesn’t look half bad.

B3597F07-8723-4667-9379-8F69353A72A0.jpeg.c1e1266b31f70f836887445705d150e7.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Whitley_280z_2+2 said:

I used the vintage air defrost vents and just made some simple metal brackets to mount them up. It doesn’t really line up with the metal piece that goes at the back of the dash so just drilled a bunch of holes. If you don’t care to retain the stock look it doesn’t look half bad.

 

 

That's not too bad! I'll probably make some forward mounting brackets that at least line it up with the stock openings. 

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I haven't been following this thread, but I just saw the pic of the routed flex hose.  That type of hose is TERRIBLE for airflow.  The corrugations absolutely kill flow.  Also, the left side s-curve contributes significantly to the loss of flow.  It has to do with large directional changes over a short hose length.

It's absolutely worth looking for a hose/pipe with shorter length, smother wall, and a straighter path.

 

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3 hours ago, ETI2K said:

I haven't been following this thread, but I just saw the pic of the routed flex hose.  That type of hose is TERRIBLE for airflow.  The corrugations absolutely kill flow.  Also, the left side s-curve contributes significantly to the loss of flow.  It has to do with large directional changes over a short hose length.

It's absolutely worth looking for a hose/pipe with shorter length, smother wall, and a straighter path.

 

You sir are correct!  BUT the system does work with the VA hoses, even in Houston heat and humidity in the middle of August. I considered using other hoses but in the end I just went with the VA tried and true hoses and it just works.  Could it be better?  Probably - but it does keep me cool.

 

Do you have any experience using a VA system with smooth bore hoses that you can share with us?

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4 hours ago, ETI2K said:

I haven't been following this thread, but I just saw the pic of the routed flex hose.  That type of hose is TERRIBLE for airflow.  The corrugations absolutely kill flow.  Also, the left side s-curve contributes significantly to the loss of flow.  It has to do with large directional changes over a short hose length.

It's absolutely worth looking for a hose/pipe with shorter length, smother wall, and a straighter path.

 

 

Fortunately that's someone else's installation from ages ago that's still on the xenonzcar site for reference. they did a lot of things kind of poorly that I would never do the same way, but it gives you an idea of why I want to change to use their small included ones that don't drop down so low, or purchase some that already have a 90 deg bend in them to reduce the length of hose and bends in it. 

That being said, the stock stystem also uses corrugated hose and (at least on mine) the flow was okay despite a weaker and less efficient fan. 

If you have suggestions for a specfic type of smoother hose/tubing I'd love to hear it, but other than fixing the defrost routing issue issue, I don't really see the need to change from the stock style right now. 

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That's the problem- finding a hose that is less restrictive (and quieter bc of reduced losses).  PVC pipe works great 😁😉

Festool uses hoses that are much smoother inside but don't have the small bend radius needed. Perhaps less flexible, smoother hose and rigid elbows for tight turns?  Sorry, no solutions, really.  

As was suggested above, reduced path length by altering the goesintos/goesoutofs is more easily achieved. 

Oh yeah, I was joking about PVC, but something rigid can be shaped with heat.  Sort of like shaping straight brake line to replace existing (without heat of course).

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The problem I ran into is that there is very little room, especially for the center vents to use anything other than the provided flex hose with tight bends.  It will be interesting to see what you come up with - I may plagiarizer if it suits my needs - especially if it means I can get better flow out of the center vents. 

Edited by rossman
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Good suggestion @jpndave.  DWV is cheap, thin-walled, and cheap! 😁

Imagine a hard-piped air distribution system behind the dash - quiet, lots of air, and didn't cost $300.  Actually,  it probably cost about $30 in parts and about $12,990 in labor, but man, it'd be the shite.

C'mon, you're not really busy are you?

Edited by ETI2K
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I think where I've positioned it I'll get about the best flow possible if the vent printing is successful. Cousin had to restart it. One side started warping (weirdly enough, the supports worked well, it wasn't the angled section collapsing)

I'm amazed anyone gets it has high as they do. for room, I avoided pushing it any farther forward than the two bolt holes that supported the original heater core, as you can see from the front bracket. But at that location, I can't go higher up. I was barely able to squeeze out the inch drop I need for the drain hose, and even then, it's ever so slightly kinked going down the hole I made in the trans tunnel.

 

I think the ducting will be fine, especially if I opt to use some of the stuff on the link you suggested @jpndave.

 

As far as defrost ducts, I'm debating between these two right now.Top  don't seem to have any sort of brackets. I think if I used the bottom ones with the closed side towards the cowl and just modified the brackets slightly I'd get them to line up right where the original holes are in the finish panel.
vta-63375-vue_em_xl.jpg?rep=False

vta-63380-vce_gq_xl.jpg?rep=False

 

 

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Cousin sent me a video earlier... 

https://imgur.com/99RAg17

 

A friend in Boise who does some 3D modeling regularly took my measurements and made some small adjustments to my center vent design that my cousin just finished printing. Still has roughly the same angle as the piece I was making, but is a slightly cleaner design overall. Distributor cap coming up next along with some other small things! Will be also be printing me a basic bracket I designed to set my MS3x in the stock location. That being said... if it doesn't work I'm just going to fold some scrap metal and drill some holes in it for the ECU bracket haha. 

 

image0.jpg.b5df369195e6204232ee2d80e90828c2.jpg1900574769_image0(1).jpg.ebd01a8d80b4b8368f81a57b83e249ad.jpg

 

Edited by Zetsaz
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