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branut89

r200 CLSD Possible Damage From Z31 CV Axles

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I purchased a 240z that had a r200 swap conversion installed including the CV's and Stub axles. I had also previously purchased an r200 CLSD and CV shafts. I went ahead and swapped in the CLSD I have known about binding issues especially in the 240's but when I measured the CV axles from the open diff compared to the CLSD they were the same size. There for i figured my car would not have binding issues. I had Previously heard a clunk and bind but i thought this was due to  some play in the transverse link. Now that I've done more research I've discovered that my dumb ass should have purchased shorter shafts and not placed the original z31 CV's  which was the clunk caused by axle wrap and bind. Ive drove about 50 miles on the CLSD and have started to hear a rotational clicking/ticking/clunk(Not Good as I know and once again I am a dumb ass for this) I heard the noise after heavy driving and putting real stress on the rear end. This leaves me with 3 questions:

 

1. Did I destroy the R200 CLSD? (I did have it inspected previously and everything looked great)

2. Should I bother with buying the shortened shafts, is the noise an internal differential problem?

3. If the diff is fine where has the majority of the damage inquired. 

 

What are your thoughts I am not sure what to do as I may have destroyed this diff. Please let me know what you all think. Thank you your inout is appreciated. 

 

 

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Ive read that flipping the cages doesn't always work and would like to do it right for sure especially cause I've learned that the 240's have less clearance. Any thought that the noise may be a busted wheel bearing? I plan to check the diff for metal shavings and what not, if it is clear of shavings could it be a good assumption the diff is fine? 

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Wow, I have heard of this happening and it freaked me out so when I did mine I shortened them before I installed them. I'm trying not to be the bearer of bad news I'm willing to bet you killed your ring gear/pinion and possibly bearings. The good news is the LSD carrier will swap right over to another R200. And an open R200 is still cheap.

 

I shortened my stock CV axles as I figured the CV's are way easier and cheaper to replace than the LSD diff. I did a write up in the drivetrain section on how I did it. I took about 1/2 an inch off the length, it's been about 1500 miles and no issues at all.  I think Checked flag sells the shortened axles as well if you want to go that route.

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Flipping the cage gains you about 1/8". You can grind another 1/8" or so off of the end of the shaft. It should still be too long, based on the measurements I did years ago, but then I still can't explain how so many people ran Ross's adapters with stock length shafts for so many years. 

 

Does it make the noise going straight or turning or both? If going straight, it's probably the ring and pinion. Pinion would have a higher frequency. Ring gear goes same speed as tires, so you might be able to figure out which is the culprit that way. If it's while turning only, then either it's clutch chatter (pops and clunks) which you can fix by adding LSD additive, or it's something else wrong inside the LSD. 

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Just curious, but what exactly is getting pressure when you press the axle in to the differential?  Does the internal clip let go and the axle moves inward?  Or does the clip hold in that direction and the pressure is on the inner spline?  Inner bearing races, axle dust shield?  I don't have a good picture in my head of what's connected to what, or what the dimensions are.

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Well this is embarrassing and disappointing news. Im an idiot as I've stated before.  I think i might pull them flip the cages and grind the axles down a bit. Hopefully it might take the stress off... If the diff is trashed would i have metal shavings floating around? Is it even worth flipping the cages and checking to see if tension and pressure is released? Thanks for your input. 

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Flipping the cage gains you about 1/8". You can grind another 1/8" or so off of the end of the shaft. It should still be too long, based on the measurements I did years ago, but then I still can't explain how so many people ran Ross's adapters with stock length shafts for so many years. 

 

Does it make the noise going straight or turning or both? If going straight, it's probably the ring and pinion. Pinion would have a higher frequency. Ring gear goes same speed as tires, so you might be able to figure out which is the culprit that way. If it's while turning only, then either it's clutch chatter (pops and clunks) which you can fix by adding LSD additive, or it's something else wrong inside the LSD. 

The noise is primarily when driving straight. 

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Just curious, but what exactly is getting pressure when you press the axle in to the differential?  Does the internal clip let go and the axle moves inward?  Or does the clip hold in that direction and the pressure is on the inner spline?  Inner bearing races, axle dust shield?  I don't have a good picture in my head of what's connected to what, or what the dimensions are.

If the circlip doesn't slip past its hole and the axle is held at the min length, then just bolting it up should be stressing everything from the control arm bushings to the uprights to the strut housings, etc. In the diff itself it would put pressure on the spider gears essentially squeezing the gears together, and you would think it would fight the actual compression of the clutch stack in the LSD which pushes the spiders outward. Although we had a couple people report problems (mayolives comes to mind) I don't recall anyone disassembling and taking pics of the innards of one after having issues, so can't say exactly what fails first, etc.

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I think that if you bound an axle, the first thing to get damaged is the grease cup on the outer end. If I were you, I would (after posting a video that shows the sound you are hearing), pull an axle and inspect. It's four bolts and a couple of screw drivers to pull an axle. I seriously doubt you broke either the diff or a wheel bearing. You are glooming and dooming instead of doing what you need to do. Which is pull an axle and inspect. It is easier to pull both axles than to re-fill the diff, so I would check the axles before drainng to check for chunks. Once the axles are out, you can spin both the driveshaft and the individual wheels to check for evil noises. That will let you isolate the problem.

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The 240Zs have no less distance between the diff and the companion flange than 260 or 280Zs from what I have seen, and knowing that a majority of the suspension parts are interchangeable.

Flipping cages and grinding the end of the axle gained between 1/4 to 5/16" on each axle. At full droop where the distance between the companion flanges and the diff is shortest, my driver side axles slides in with between 1/8 and 1/4" to spare, and the passenger side is a tight squeeze past the lip, but then I still need to pull the axle cup and companion flange together to mate them. My companion flange adapters are home made and made from 5/16" material, with proper locating recess for the axle to align to. I've been running them for about 6 years IIRC with many many miles of hard driving and drag use. I also lowered the car a few years ago, still without issue.

If I were in your shoes I would flip the cages, since it's free to do so and see where you stand.

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Clicking/ticking is the common bad CV joint noise.  On front wheel drive cars you hear it all the time as they turn.

 

You said that you had an R200 and CV axles and replaced it with a different R200 (the CLSD) and a different set of CV axles.  Seems like you could put the other CV axles in, and give it a short test drive.  If the noise stays it's probably the diff.  If not, you damaged some axles.

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One other thing that gets left out on the binding issue is the bushings used for the differential.  The stock rubber will allow a lot of side-to-side movement.  The diff will get pushed to the side that has more room easily.  They typical urethane locks the location down pretty well.  Might be one explanation for the discrepancy in experiences.

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That's the difference though, Six_Shooter-Your flanges are probably thinner than the most likely Modern Motorsports/Checquered Flag ones the OP has. They're IIRC made with 3/8" material. I made my flanges with some 7mm plate I had and the difference in clearance is, as you would expect, quite a bit. 

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So i took it around the block a few times today with no luck getting any good video of the sound. I did confirm a few things: The sound is only when driving straight and gets little louder when coming to a complete stop. The clunking/noise is surely coming from the driver side. It took a few rounds for the noise to get to a louder state. At this point I am thinking it may just be the cv that i did bust up. After all the Car in which all this came out of did have 190k miles and I only had the diff inspected. Tomorrow I'm going to take the cv out do some investigating and see if it has any slop. I may try to take another video but it wasn't working in my favor today. When i have it out ill flip the cages and grind 1/8" off. I will update everyone when this is complete to see if it fixes the noise. I was also going to raise the coil-overs to help with a little more down and out action coming from the axle.  

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If you go to RebekahsZ YouTube channel or Keith Thompson's YouTube channel, I have a video of the noises my CLSD makes. I put a gopro under the car and drove in a circle. If you want to be sure of your axle length, when you reinstall the axle, leave the boots pushed back so you can look inside. A big hose clamp works as good as those peskie CV clamps.

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I'm gonna be doing some axle work tomorrow. Text me your name and phone number and I will send you some videos of me working with mine. But it is too much trouble for me to want to post them to YouTube then link them to the videos forum then link them to your post. Easier phone to phone. 256-366-4685. Keith. Remind me in your text that the subject is axles. And I have a couple of CLSD carriers out on my bench, out of their diffs, but carrier still assembled, if you have any questions.

Edited by RebekahsZ

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