CableSrv Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) I'm doing an upgrade soon to my rear end as having a LS1 mated to my stock R180 using the stock 240z stubs and half-shafts are bordering dangerous destruction soon. I don't plan to do drag strips ever. I'm trying to budget as much as I can to support about 550-600hp/tq. So I've looked at the Q45 and 300zxtt diffs and everyone talks about the R230 being almost impossible to break... but no one talks about the Q45? I know it's much beefier than a longnose R200... but how much HP/TQ can one of them sustain? Would my goals of around 550-600 be to much for it? or should I aim for the R230? or would a stock longnose R200 from a 280z work with that type of HP/TQ? I know I at least have to replace my 240z stub axles to the 280z to get 27 splines... I also know that my stock 240 half-shafts are my first weakest link. So I need to upgrade to CV's as quickly as possible, however the 280zxt cv's won't support my 550+ hp goals and with the guy from wolf creek dying... not sure I can get those cv's anymore.. or if they can even stand up to 550+ hp/tq. Then there is Troy Ermish cv's but what are they rated for? Can I get away with a longnose R200 + Troy Ermish cv's with 550+ hp/tq? If not then I really should plan to get the Q45 or the R230. If I have to get the Q45/R230 can I have my late R180 mustache bar re-drilled? or do I need the R200 bar to get re-drilled? Right now I'm thinking Q45 if it can support my hp/tq goals with the Arizona Z mustache bar and dog bones.. or just dog bones and re-drill my mustache bar. I have around 2600 coming to me soon.. so trying to plan around that and still have some money left to do a few other misc things. Q45 Diff shouldn't be to hard to find at a junk yard in DFW as well as 4x axles. the R230 on the other hand... I have not seen many z's at any junk yards...I will be mixing and matching between T3 and AZ parts. 280z stub axles (found on ebay) 160 T3 front diff mount 150 T3 axle service 480 (is there an alternative to this? it's quite expensive. I can build my own if I can buy the actual axles themselves... also do these come with endstops?) AZ mustache bar 239 AZ dog bones 329 chequeredflag R230 companion flange 490 (is there an alternative to this? it's quite expensive) Q45/R230 (need to find at junkyard) Q45 cv x4 (need to find at junkyard) Q45 driveshaft for modifying my ls1 driveshaft (need to find at junkyard) Edited December 4, 2015 by CableSrv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1969honda Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Pretty sure depending on the year Q45s are a short nose R230, you might also look into the Armada/QX56/Titan platform for an R230 as well. Another really good option would be the Ford 8.8 IRS from a Mustang/Explorer/Expedition/Lincoln Mark VIII, Thunderbird Super Coupe, etc... they come in a variety of gear ratios and LSD options as well as cheap aftermarket gearing and LSD kits. Just food for thought, also if looking at an R200 don't forget the S13/14s almost all come with an open R200 short nose and the drift kids sell and trade them like skittles. Edited December 4, 2015 by 1969honda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CableSrv Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 From everything I've read on hybridz, the Q45 from 90-96 uses a short-nose R200V and the later years use a R230 I believe. However The question is will a long-nose or short-nose R200 handle my HP goals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DREW RBZ Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) I know I at least have to replace my 240z stub axles to the 280z to get 27 splines... I also know that my stock 240 half-shafts are my first weakest link. So I need to upgrade to CV's as quickly as possible, however the 280zxt cv's won't support my 550+ hp goals and with the guy from wolf creek dying... not sure I can get those cv's anymore.. or if they can even stand up to 550+ hp/tq. Then there is Troy Ermish cv's but what are they rated for? Check out this thread with reference to Wolf Creek Racing CV's....post 30 and post 33 are photos of my Wolf Creek Racing CV's . I have 586rwhp/430tq. It looks like the company has been kept alive with a new owner. I am not sure if there have been any changes to the CV's with new ownership though. Modern Motorsports kit looks pretty sweet. http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/123979-modern-motorsports-cv-axle-coversion-kit/page-2 Edited December 4, 2015 by DREW RBZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CableSrv Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 So I wonder if Troy Ermish's CV's are the same? If your's didn't hold up to the 430tq then will his? I've sent him an email about it asking if they have any info.. Right now unless I can find a good cv for a stock R200, I might be leading to the Q45 diff with their cv's... sadly it's just a much more expensive route. Some have reported running over 500hp to a stock R200 without any issues... so I can only assume the beefier R200V from a Q45 should be able to handle more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I would email troy, he's pretty active. I would guess he wouldn't give you much of a guarantee at those power/torque levels. Honestly I think the axles would be fine if you are not shock loading them, I think the stub axles, even the 280z ones would be the weakest link after switching over to 930 style CV's. I plan to hit about 400hp and maybe 450 torque, my relief valve is going to be tires, I'm staying un-flared and I don't plan on throwing slicks on so worse comes to worse the tires will spin instead of important things breaking. But to answer your question, the R200 has helped power levels up to 800hp without much issue. It is usually the things around it that tends to break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CableSrv Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 right now my tires are my weakest link being 195 series... but I want to upgrade my wheels to 16x10s with some proper rubber... which means my next weakest link is my R180 and halfshafts then my 240z stub axles. Is there any known CV option for the R200 that can support 500+ hp goals? If not then, it answers my question of using a stock R200. So that means Q45 for me. Is there anyone out there that makes cheaper companion flanges? or adaptors? for the Q45? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Probably depends on how you use the 500+ HP. Drifting? The viscous diffs don't seem to last long. Drag-racing? Probably depends on how well the car is set up. Autocross/road-racing? Some people say the viscous diff isn't smooth, just due to the way it works. Not your question but might be relevant. And the 180, 200, and 230 numbers are just the size of the ring gear, which is relevant to ultimate load-bearing capacity but might not be the most important factor in-use. Then there's the size of the external case, which you're talking about here, but may not be relevant. Haven't seen any broken differential housings reported in the R series. Don't forget the number of pinon shafts in the diff itself. Two versus four. They affect durability. Don't overlook the mounting problems with the short nose either. They can exacerbate the half-shaft problems. Misalignment of the shafts under load, from the diff moving, will find the weak spot in a drive shaft. Read through Sunny Z's thread about the path the to the 8.8" Ford diff. He's your role model. He's already done 3/4 of what you're worried about. http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/95937-78-datsun-280z-53-build/ http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/109324-ford-88-irs-conversion/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CableSrv Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 If I had access to the tools he has and the waterjet that he uses to cut all his parts.. I wouldn't be worried about getting this done with what money I have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CableSrv Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 Just got a response from Troy back. Says he's not comfortable with anything above 400 on his cv's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socorob Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I think the 90-92 Q45s are the big ones. They changed somewhat after that (I had both side by side at the JY a few years ago, but can't remember exactly what the differences were. The early Q45 halfshafts are 1/8" or so thicker than the 300/s13 R200 halfshafts also. When I was buidling my car, I wasn't sure if I wanted to go 5 lug or 4, so I pulled one setup of each kind since the complete unit with brakes were only $60 each from the JY. The early Q45 is a heavier unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 If you are going Q45 for sure it would be silly to convert to 280z stub axles when you can just convert to all Q45 stuff. You need a longer drive shaft, new mustache bar new axles and convert to 280z stuff, you could buy the kit and just convert to more modern hubs and CV's from the Q45 or 300zx or whatever your poison. https://technotoytuning.com/nissan/240z/complete-r200-r230-rear-end-conversion-z-car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CableSrv Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 I already bought my suspension... Don't need to upgrade that again anytime soon. And while it would be nice to have coilovers not really important right now. Since I'm already planning on buying the 27 spline cromoly R230 companion flange... when I get another chunk of money I can buy the chromoly 27 spline stub axle from them too. So not to worried about the Q45 stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHEQUERED FLAG JOE Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I've got most if not all the parts you might need. Stub axles,flanges, and complete CV kits designed for the HP you are going to put out. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CableSrv Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 problem is you are using the 930cv's which in another post have been proven to fail due to the ball cages getting fatigued at around 400 something HP. Plus your kit is 3200.... I will however be buying your R230 companion flanges once I get my money. Sadly I'm on a very tight budget of 2600 to get a full Q45 setup done. Question is do you also have the axles that will pair up with your R230 companion flanges? if so how much are those since you don't advertise them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CableSrv Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 And just got back from my HR rep saying they will pay me less than what I thought I was suppose to get back for my college courses... so I'll only be getting 2k back instead of the 2.6k that I thought... so now I really have to do the Q45 swap on the cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 You're dumbing down a lot of detailed information. "930" is a CV design, with a variety of materials used and manufacturers involved. They're not all the same. "Q45" is a car not a diff. The Q45 came with the short-nose R200, not the R230. The R230 came on twin-turbo Z's and SUV's. "Chromoly" is an over-used word that actually means very little. You can have a "chromoly" axle that will twist like a pretzel if it hasn't had the proper heat treatment. Seems like you haven't really absorbed much of what people have been offering. Look through the nicoclub FSM's to learn about the diff options. If you're not careful you'll buy an R230 kit, for a Q45 short-nose diff, with a 3.13 gear ratio. Not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CableSrv Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 I'm full aware that the Q45 is not a diff, however it is a known swap that uses a R200V that shares much of the same type of CV's that the R230 use which is why most people talk about them the same. I also understand that chromoly is an over used word, however that is only talking about ChequeredFlagracings stub axles and companion flanges.I'm also fully aware what years they come from and know exactly what to ask for when it comes to T3's front mount. The only issue I have currently is finding the actual axles as moser no longer makes them and DriveshaftShop just quoted me 600 for the pair of custom axles. As for the 930cv I'm only going based off what other users have reported on this site about the bearing cages failing at above 400hp. considering it's a shared cv design, I can only assume most 930cv designs will have the same fault, but I could be wrong. Either way Chequered wants 3200 just for the CV's not including the diff or mounts, which would do me nothing since I still need to upgrade my diff from a R180 open style. Hell even T3's system is cheaper than Chequereds and comes with diff mount, and new hubs, and new coilovers/camber plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CableSrv Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 Also the R230 uses the same 6 bolt style CV stubs as the R200V from a Q45, so the share the same axles minus their length which is why I have to have custom axles made to a certain length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Never mind. You have the signs of a difficult customer. Edited December 7, 2015 by NewZed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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