Coilover Leveling Issues

[~KnuckleDuster~]

  Also that does sorta look like shaft wear right under the Eibach logo, but again maybe it's just the picture.

 

Also, unrelated but I keep thinking these pictures are of my car because I also have a green moustache bar lol.  Mine's rattle can green as opposed to powder coated but still. 

Their is some wear there..

 

I wish it was a different color, nothing else is green hah oh well you never see it.

[~KnuckleDuster~]

Ok here's the nasty. Looks like jack abuse directly to the floor to me. I can't find much evidence of previous accidents, just this beat up floor and frame rails.

 

 

 

 

and strut tower tops for those interested

 

 

Edited July 3, 2016 by ~KnuckleDuster~

[MaritimeRiceburn]

Floorboard twisting at that level is definitely not a good sign. A 1/4" dent in my firewall area floor pan was enough to set my car off in the front end. Check the alignment of the headlight bucket, turn signal housing and the hood/fender. If they seem to be out of alignment that's a good indicati on of a frame issue. Unfortunately with the way these cars are designed the strut tower won't give you an indication of a collision, as the majority of the bend should occur in the firewall area of the frame rail, just after or before the taper.

[Leon]

You need to take it to a frame shop and have them measure it.

[Chris Duncan]

Best guess is your upper strut mounts are not straight.

 

The easiest way to check short of paying a frame shop would be with a Bosch laser level. About $100. You could get away with a string level but it's very tedious/ time consuming and not as accurate.

 

First level the car using probably the jack points, then check the level (height) of the A and D points in this chassis spec sheet. You don't need to get an exact measurement like the diagram you are just comparing right to left to see if it's level.

 

To level the jack points you would set the laser up underneath and measure upwards.

 

To level / measure the upper A, D strut points you would measure down from above with the laser projecting from a ladder or similar item.

 

The other suspect area would be the struts although you say it was like that before with different struts on all four corners? The different front springs is a pretty good sign it was like that before.

 

Edited July 3, 2016 by Chris Duncan

[MaritimeRiceburn]

I'd personally suggest using the datem (?) Points on the cowl and rockers. You can stick a pencil in them and get a close enough measurement. The chassis has something crazy like 4mm tolerances

[~KnuckleDuster~]

I will check to see what this would cost to check out, I can only imagine..nice old car comes in and these guys start seeing dollar signs. If the frame was tweaked I'm not even sure if I want to pay the money to straighten it out. Doesn't seem like a cheap fix. Maybe I just need to run a slightly longer spring in the front passenger side to raise the spring rate up a tad. The car still handles well enough for what I do with it. Only when really pushing the car to it's limits do I begin to notice the effects of this.

[seattlejester]

I think it is important to look into the sway bar suggestion. If they are still connected you aren't going to see an independent adjustment. This of course means that you need a way to make your sway bar end links adjustable either via a threaded portion or shims for proper spacing to achieve minimal preload. 

 

I had some similar issues. Measure left and right and one side was sitting much lower, raised it and found no change, winding a certain collar down lifts up another side of the car etc. I took it into a really good alignment shop (one that does SCCA cars or NASA cars) will be able to set you in the right direction. I was also expecting news about how bad my chassis was going to be, but they set the ride height without any issues. 

[~KnuckleDuster~]

I think it is important to look into the sway bar suggestion. If they are still connected you aren't going to see an independent adjustment. This of course means that you need a way to make your sway bar end links adjustable either via a threaded portion or shims for proper spacing to achieve minimal preload. 

 

I had some similar issues. Measure left and right and one side was sitting much lower, raised it and found no change, winding a certain collar down lifts up another side of the car etc. I took it into a really good alignment shop (one that does SCCA cars or NASA cars) will be able to set you in the right direction. I was also expecting news about how bad my chassis was going to be, but they set the ride height without any issues. 

I have a good alignment shop in mind thats a couple hours away, they will corner balance the car too. Yeah I fear I'm going to drive all that way for them to tell me that my car is a POS and there's nothing they can do hah.

[seattlejester]

That is always a possibility. I know that getting the alignment sheet that said zero thrust angle was a relief for me. 

 

I have heard that a frame alignment doesn't have to be too bad if a shop has a high turn around rate. I've heard some quotes of 800-1000 for minor tweaks. They could at least measure the pickup points and tell you how bad it is. If it is tweaked you can either level it via the suspension or have them pull the pickup points into place.

 

Honestly it looks like that crushed part might need replacing though. Looks like the tie rod ball joints and the control arm ball joints could use replacing as well.

[RebekahsZ]

Would you consider leveling the car with the coilovers, then put the car in a good level concrete garage floor and measure around from "pick up point" to point with a tape measure? The pick up points are basically for the front: the TC boxes (there's a bolt in the center), the inner LCA pivots (there's a bolt in the center) and the bottom facing of the study tower. For the rear: the front and back center LCA mounts, and the bottom face of the strut tower. Before you submit yourself to a frame puller, measure that stuff yourself. The floors really don't affect alignment-they can be bashed to hell and the car can still be square. If you have struts mod-ed for Tokicos, you should be running springs in the rear that are 2" longer than in the front. And with Tokicos, the front springs typically are loose (an inch or more) if the car is jacked up. My spare chassis has had the shit smashed out of it and it still sits level. I'm sorry you are having trouble.

[RebekahsZ]

Also, when you say "not level" are you measuring from the pinch welds on the rockers? These cars aren't really square from the factory. My fender gaps are all a little off, side to side. Have you had any fenders or quarter panels replaced?

[~KnuckleDuster~]

That is always a possibility. I know that getting the alignment sheet that said zero thrust angle was a relief for me. 

 

I have heard that a frame alignment doesn't have to be too bad if a shop has a high turn around rate. I've heard some quotes of 800-1000 for minor tweaks. They could at least measure the pickup points and tell you how bad it is. If it is tweaked you can either level it via the suspension or have them pull the pickup points into place.

 

Honestly it looks like that crushed part might need replacing though. Looks like the tie rod ball joints and the control arm ball joints could use replacing as well.

Ok that's not too bad if it comes to that..

 

Would you consider leveling the car with the coilovers, then put the car in a good level concrete garage floor and measure around from "pick up point" to point with a tape measure? The pick up points are basically for the front: the TC boxes (there's a bolt in the center), the inner LCA pivots (there's a bolt in the center) and the bottom facing of the study tower. For the rear: the front and back center LCA mounts, and the bottom face of the strut tower. Before you submit yourself to a frame puller, measure that stuff yourself. The floors really don't affect alignment-they can be bashed to hell and the car can still be square. If you have struts mod-ed for Tokicos, you should be running springs in the rear that are 2" longer than in the front. And with Tokicos, the front springs typically are loose (an inch or more) if the car is jacked up. My spare chassis has had the shit smashed out of it and it still sits level. I'm sorry you are having trouble.

Ill see what I can do. My free time is weird right now due to a new born but in some ways I feel like I have more time with the car (at least for now hah)

 

Also, when you say "not level" are you measuring from the pinch welds on the rockers? These cars aren't really square from the factory. My fender gaps are all a little off, side to side. Have you had any fenders or quarter panels replaced?

What I mean by that is when I was adjusting the coilovers my goal was simply to raise the rear end up. That progressed into adjusting all of them of course and in order for the car to sit "level looking" while maintaining the proper fender gap the right rear coilover had to be set all the way up while the right front coilover was set all the way low, meanwhile the driver side of the car f&r was in the middle. Now I don't know anything about properly adjusting coilovers, this was my first car having this new found adjustability so I just moved one side up at a time chasing the proper height. It could be that my fender flares were installed half ass'ed, I'm attempting to make even fender gaps all around and maybe the fender flares are causing some of the problems although they look like there in the proper locations..

[RebekahsZ]

Could be the flares are the problem. Measure your ride height from the pinch seam on the lowest point in the rockers. With a tape measure-Not by what looks right. Start out just trying to get the rockers to 5.5" off a smooth garage floor, measured right in front of each rear wheel and right behind each front wheel. Try to set the left and right sides the same for now. Keep notes.

[NewZed]

The rocker panels are the stiff part of the metal box that is the chassis. They're like frame rails, tied directly to the fender wells.  The floors, not so much.

 

 

[seattlejester]

Also looks right isn't the best unless you want the car to look good for pictures. Looks right usually means even all around, that means when you sit in the car it will no longer be even, and if you are low that means rubbing consistently on one side. 

 

Ideally you want to adjust one end, ala front or rear. Sway bars and their end links do make a difference.  Especially if you are doing one side at a time. If you jack up the car, put one side on ramps and drop the strut housing via the three bolts from the top, the sway bar end link will actually hold it in place. 

[RebekahsZ]

Pick a mentor and send a PM. Or you can call me. My ph# is on page 1.

[~KnuckleDuster~]

That is always a possibility. I know that getting the alignment sheet that said zero thrust angle was a relief for me. 

 

I have heard that a frame alignment doesn't have to be too bad if a shop has a high turn around rate. I've heard some quotes of 800-1000 for minor tweaks. They could at least measure the pickup points and tell you how bad it is. If it is tweaked you can either level it via the suspension or have them pull the pickup points into place.

 

Honestly it looks like that crushed part might need replacing though. Looks like the tie rod ball joints and the control arm ball joints could use replacing as well.

That's good to know.

 

Yeah most of the front suspension pieces have been neglected, I just recently got the car up and running right so my new focus is on the suspension and brakes (backwards I know!)

[~KnuckleDuster~]

Could be the flares are the problem. Measure your ride height from the pinch seam on the lowest point in the rockers. With a tape measure-Not by what looks right. Start out just trying to get the rockers to 5.5" off a smooth garage floor, measured right in front of each rear wheel and right behind each front wheel. Try to set the left and right sides the same for now. Keep notes.

Once I get some time Ill do some more in depth measuring and start a log. I appreciate everyone's input, I'll get some some measurements and report back!

[~KnuckleDuster~]

Also looks right isn't the best unless you want the car to look good for pictures. Looks right usually means even all around, that means when you sit in the car it will no longer be even, and if you are low that means rubbing consistently on one side. 

 

Ideally you want to adjust one end, ala front or rear. Sway bars and their end links do make a difference.  Especially if you are doing one side at a time. If you jack up the car, put one side on ramps and drop the strut housing via the three bolts from the top, the sway bar end link will actually hold it in place. 

 

It looked way off before, the right rear always appeared to be slammed, even now with it adjusted all the way up it still looks a little low. If I lower the right front to help raise it then the front is too low and rubs the flare.

 

I have a new set of sways to install, when I have everything disconnected Ill get some measurements.