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Crazy idea? Seeking opinions on this intake


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The runners on this intake are a little larger and much longer. I added the flange for the throttle body.

Custom fuel rail on the "adapter plate". I don't have an L in my Z anymore, so I can't bolt it up and try it out. I'd like to produce and sell these as a custom option. This being the prototype

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post-2846-0-59348900-1488274544_thumb.jpg

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I saw it on FB . I am interested but was wondering about performance. Keep in mind that I very far from being an expert but wouldn't you run a chance of going lean with the injectors so far up on the runners ? and are the runner openings bigger than the head openings for the intake valves ? just some thoughts 

It certainly looks like it would flow better and it looks as if the runners do not tapper like the stock ones which would allow for a lot better flow. 

DC

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^Agreed, I feel to have a chance at keeping the fuel atomized you would have to have the injectors angled and installed on the opposite side so they spray more towards the intake tract.

 

That also seems quite massive. What would be the benefit over a stock intake with a pallnet fuel rail? 

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I got this idea after reading and conversing with a few of the engineer types on this forum. Reading that the runners are the most restrictive part in the engine. I've measured the stock intake at 1.25", the valve is 1.55", the new intake measures 1.45" where it bolts to the head, matching a lot closer to the valve then a stick intake ever could.

 

As for the injector positioning, I think it could be enough of a difference to mess with a stock ECU especially being batch fired, but mega squirt has options for adjusting to this type and I assume the other aftermarket FI can compensate as well. (Xtau factor)

 

The runners are 4.5mm bigger then the stock intake. I have a ported P90 I've been holding onto for awhile and it's pretty close to the runners on the new intake.

 

I'm swaping a VH45DE into my Z and no longer own an L, otherwise I would have bolted this up and tested out myself on the stock fuel injection.

 

The L intakes get hotter then shit in these cars and with the 3% of evaporating chemicals they put in fuel these days, I wonder if fuel puddling would really be an issue.

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There will be air flow, but from the injection path it basically has to make a hard 180 to flow towards the intake which would probably negatively affect the atomized cloud and possibly pull fuel out of the air. I imagine directly at the nozzle face and along that inside edge would be a trail of fuel.

 

This would be targeted towards the N/A crowd I imagine? The boosted crowd would either not make enough power to really benefit, or would be fully on the custom route with custom intakes got the bigger hp builds. 

 

Not sure if there really is a reasonable market, the trend seems to be to go with carbs, go ITB, or keep stock manifold and go turbo. 

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Did you just modify a diesel L6 intake? If so to mass produce these aren't that common are they?

 

That looks exactly what he's done. You can see the Tig welding where he cut off the diesel flange and welded on the TB flange.

 

Waste of time IMHO because it breaks just about every rule of designing an Intake manifold for a gasoline engine. Runners are too long for a gasoline engine ( Diesels are low RPM Torque monsters and long runners help there) , but injector placement is the worst point and is just really, really bad.

 

Note to self. Don't try and modify Diesel intake manifolds for gasoline engines. The design criteria are totally different. 

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The basic question is whether it's better than the stock L6 intake, not if it's the best intake ever.  And some of the people with the strongest opinions here don't have any verified expertise in manifold design, just years of stuff they read somewhere.  Like me.  If you measured the length of those runners you'd probably find that they're shorter than the stock gasoilne L6 runners.  So that comment doesn't fly.

 

As far as distance from the intake ports, it's closer than throttle body injection.  

 

You wouldn't know the benefits over the stock manifold without measuring though.  Which is the problem with most aftermarket manifold designs.  They look like they should be better but actual measurements are often non-existent.

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Tyler0 hasn't confirmed what he's working with.  You're right though, I missed hsi comment about "much longer" so I was off there.  But I went out and gained some internet expertise and see that runner length has more to do with moving the power peak's RPM number, not so much the total output.  Runner diameter affects total power more.  And he says he has more runner area, so he should get more total power.  Even if the power peak moves down.  Win-win maybe.

 

My main point is that nobody can really say that any design rule, let alone every rule, has been violated until tyler0 defines what he's trying to do.  Maybe his goal is low end torque.  Maybe it's for a turbo motor.  Maybe he needs the larger area for more overall power.  I was countering the waste of time negativity.  CM hasn't built any intake manifolds and he's apparently assumed that he knows what tyler0's goals are.

 

Looks interesting to me and some positive discussion could be educational.  No need to kill the buzz with negative comments.

 

 

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I plan to build my intake with injectors at the flange( as close as I can) . I thought it might be a good choice of intake for a stroker build with 35mm runners . Your not going to find that on any stock FI intake, I believe it will clear the hood also . It sure would be a pretty piece if someone wanted to buff it out. Built in mount for BOV

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OP wanted some advice and it was given. Main problem is placement of injectors. It is just bad and it's not " Buzz Kill " to point that out.  If you don't think that is a bad placement... well go study injection and manifold design a bit more. That plumber J shape is going to collect  the fuel that falls out of suspension after it hits the back wall as well. You can't change physics. 

 

As far as runner length. I should have said that it is too long for a high RPM gasoline engine. The factory Z manifold is too long as well..... for high rpm use, which in a sports car is what is to be it's expected use.  Does make for good Torque, but at a loss of higher RPM power. Have a look at how short triple carb  manifolds are compared to the factory L28 EFI manifold. 

 

Tuned Port GM engines have the same problem. Long, small diameter runners, engines fall flat on their face at 5,200 rpm ( 305 ci ) 350's horse power drops off after ,4800 rpm, because they use the same manifold as 305's. Good for torque though, below 2,500 rpm. 

 

I And I haven't assumed anything ZH. OP asked for opinions and I gave mine based on the sound knowledge that I have gained over 40 years of racing. It's a bad design IMHO for an L-Serie's and that is my opinion. Nothing more... nothing less.

 

Edit:  OP wants to make some money building these. I think he should test them. IMHO, the performance is going to be worse than a stock EFI manifold for the reasons listed, so it's fair comment to say that's he's wasting his time. Dyno tests will prove that out ( I'll put money on it ) . Not trying to be mean. Just giving my unbiased opinion to the OP.

 

I'm said all I have to say on this... so continue on. 

Edited by Chickenman
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