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Invincibleextremes

Ford Super 8.8 irs swap thread. Rear brakes too

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Got my axles back from moser and they messed them up pretty bad.  Now I'm out a couple of $35 cores and the money spent cutting them.  I have contacted them and they told me to email them pictures and that they'll send it up and see what they'll do about it.

 

The only right thing to do about it would be to refund me $70 for the cores, pay for shipping and cut me another pair of axles.

 

But we shall see if thats what they'll do.  I'm losing a lot of time on the back and forth regardless, but all I want is a proper pair of axles...

 

The darker ones are the sample stubs i sent in, and the in white ones are the ones they cut wrong... even though they had a sample to compare to... all 4 ends are done wrong.

 

The biggest problem is they cut the space between the splines too wide and the cv star or spider has a ton of slop in it... so simply cutting it for another snap ring on the back side won't fix it

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Edited by Invincibleextremes

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Sorry to hear about the problems. If the splines are loose on the stars, meaning you can twist the star on the splines - scrap metal.

 

However, the stars sliding may not be a problem. If you look at the picture I posted above you can see that the splines are long and there is no shoulder inside. On the Porsche 930 style joints, in a non-steering application,  at least one or both joints float on the shaft to allow for changes in length as the suspension cycles. The cups inside the joints need to allow for the movement. Basically the shaft floats between the two snap rings stopped from going "in" by the outer ring and going "out" by the inner. As long as lengths and clearances are correct and not binding it should work.

 

On a cv/tripod setup, the tripod takes up the length change and the cv is set ridgid like those shafts you have. Tripods are heavy and weak but necessary in a steering application. Manufacturers sometimes use them as it can be a cheaper/less precise solution in the rear and they will take up substantially more length change. In that style the star needs to be contained as tripod will just slide out. Maybe an inner snap ring would do it if your second joint is a tripod.

 

Food for thought anyway. 

Edited by jpndave

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14 minutes ago, jpndave said:

Sorry to hear about the problems. If the splines are loose on the stars, meaning you can twist the star on the splines - scrap metal.

 

However, the stars sliding may not be a problem. If you look at the picture I posted above you can see that the splines are long and there is no shoulder inside. On the Porsche 930 style joints, in a non-steering application,  at least one or both joints float on the shaft to allow for changes in length as the suspension cycles. The cups inside the joints need to allow for the movement. Basically the shaft floats between the two snap rings stopped from going "in" by the outer ring and going "out" by the inner. As long as lengths and clearances are correct and not binding it should work.

 

On a cv/tripod setup, the tripod takes up the length change and the cv is set ridgid like those shafts you have. Tripods are heavy and weak but necessary in a steering application. Manufacturers sometimes use them as it can be a cheaper/less precise solution in the rear and they will take up substantially more length change. In that style the star needs to be contained as tripod will just slide out. Maybe an inner snap ring would do it if your second joint is a tripod.

 

Food for thought anyway. 

I thought that was only something the VW dune buggy guys did. They lengthened and loosened the splines to allow extreme suspension travel. I don’t think it was something the original 930 used. 

I was aghasted by the amount of slop in an unnamed 930 based CV conversion for the Z I bought. The end to end rotational play was 1/2” (at the 6” diameter. Not sure what that corresponds to in degrees). Compared to any other axle I’ve held it was not confidence inspiring and I can imagine the driveline clunks that would result. 

 

I have a set of true 930 CVs downstairs that I can check. Bought them with plans to make a proper cv conversions, but went z31t after more thought. 

 

With the the scope of the project at hand and its goal of a bulletproof setup, sliding sloppy spines aren’t in the cards I’d guess 

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Sliding sloppy splines aren't in the cards at all.  The cv design on these axles uses an octipod... like a tripod but with 8 balls.  And it takes up all the movement.  The cv shaft was never supposed to move at all.  But like you said i can always add another snap ring.

 

The overall play is what concerns me.  It'll wobble itself apart and sheer the splines in no time.

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5 hours ago, mtnickel said:

I thought that was only something the VW dune buggy guys did. They lengthened and loosened the splines to allow extreme suspension travel. I don’t think it was something the original 930 used. 

I was aghasted by the amount of slop in an unnamed 930 based CV conversion for the Z I bought. The end to end rotational play was 1/2” (at the 6” diameter. Not sure what that corresponds to in degrees). Compared to any other axle I’ve held it was not confidence inspiring and I can imagine the driveline clunks that would result. 

 

I have a set of true 930 CVs downstairs that I can check. Bought them with plans to make a proper cv conversions, but went z31t after more thought. 

 

With the the scope of the project at hand and its goal of a bulletproof setup, sliding sloppy spines aren’t in the cards I’d guess 

The desert race boys loosen up the star/ball clearance for more travel not the splines. They resort to finned housings to control heat and 300M cages to keep things from exploding. Spline fit stays tight. 

 

The shafts need to float somehow either in the splines captured at both ends by snap rings and a plunging style joint which is strongest/best/lightest if the application will allow it. The shafts can be stronger as the inside doesn't need a shoulder or snap ring which allows for zero stress risers in the stressed portion of the shaft. That method needs to be pretty minimal distance change. If memory serves correct maybe 1/2" but don't quote me on that. 

 

The other method has both splined ends captured. One non-plunging joint and one joint that has in and out travel like the tripod. Front outer steering joints travel/angle too much for a Rzeppa joint for example. Sloppy suspension design with lots of distance change can be an issue too. 

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Well, the good news is i have a 200 amp mig welder with shielding gas.

And i now have a plasma cutter and im decent with it.

I have located the last piece of the puzzle, the spindle sleeves and can now make as many or as few kits as i want or can sell.

 

I'm no longer dependent on having to laser cut batches and have some parts be a minimum of 110 pieces.  

 

I'll see how far i get over the next few days on a kit or two and will post them for sale.

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Plasma is "by hand" but stencils etc won't be hard to come up with.  The axles I'm waiting on from Moser are STILL not here, due to weather delays.  I'll be away for the next week and unable to touch the setup untill i get back.  At that point i really hope i return to perfect axles from moser...

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Got the axles back from moser.  They're not as bad as the first set, and i can finally use them.  

But they are not the length I gave them and the shoulder on one side is completely wrong.

 

I am now looking for another company for future orders, because there is no excuse for this.  They wasted 4 weeks of my time to give me product that doesn't even come close to being correct.

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On 3/4/2019 at 8:15 PM, Invincibleextremes said:

But they are not the length I gave them and the shoulder on one side is completely wrong.

 

I am now looking for another company for future orders, because there is no excuse for this.

Did you give the shop a sketch of what you wanted them to do? I find that verbal and even written text instructions get screwed up or lost in translation.  I would make a quick sketch of the stock and modified version and write "WAS (stock)" and "IS (modified)" by each sketch.  That way it's clear what you want and if they screw that up then there REALLY is no excuse and it is easy to point to the requirements (dimensions) on the sketch.

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14 hours ago, rossman said:

Did you give the shop a sketch of what you wanted them to do? I find that verbal and even written text instructions get screwed up or lost in translation.  I would make a quick sketch of the stock and modified version and write "WAS (stock)" and "IS (modified)" by each sketch.  That way it's clear what you want and if they screw that up then there REALLY is no excuse and it is easy to point to the requirements (dimensions) on the sketch.

 I literally sent them a sample, and gave them written instructions that were a reflection of that sample.  Plus i sent them both stars as well.

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Assembled them.  Planning on putting them in and seeing how short they are, or if they work.  Working with another axle manufacturer to make a small batch that i can sell to who ever buys the mount... because i don't want anyone going through what i went through just to get a pair of shafts.

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