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Jlhalsey3

R200 Differential Removal Help

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Sounds like you're on the right track.

 

Regarding welding on the mustache bar.....I'd recommend against that in the future.  The bar is made of spring steel, which as we all know, responds poorly to exposure to extreme heating.

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Correct, billet aluminum from ASC.

 

Hope to get the R200 back next week from the shop, they said it was in pretty good shape but they are going through it, replacing bearings and seals, setting it upon correctly w respect to pre-load, lash etc. They agreed that the missing circlips was a potential source of clunking rather than whine type noise. Hopefully with the rebuild, the circlips, and eliminating the solid lower mount, the car will be nice and quiet. Also putting in new lower control arm bushings.

 

Bought a pair of new 280ZX Turbo CV axles from the source NewZed provided, they look very nice and are the same lengths as my current axles. Now I can be a little more forceful trying to remove the ones in the car from the hubs since I have new ones on hand.

 

thanks for everyone’s help.

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ok, finally got the outter CV joints separated from the hubs, see picture. I ended up separating the joint body from the outer sealing plate with the three tabs as had been suggested earlier by NewZed. Bent the tabs back and pried inside then tabs and got them to move a little and then used a small sledge hammer on the body of the joints. If anyone else ends up in the same situation, make sure you wire up the shafts to something so they don't fall on the floor when the joint finally separates from the hub.

 

It appears grease had somehow gotten between the sealing plates and the hubs causing the plates to adhere strongly to the hubs.

 

Received the OEM lower mount which appears to be the identical thickness as the AZC billet mount  (1") so the nose of the diff will rest exactly the same distance above the cross member as it did with the solid mount, hopefully keeping the pinion angle unchanged.

 

Will post an update when I have the car back together and. road tested. Thanks for all the assistance. 

 

 

cv off.jpg

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19 minutes ago, Jlhalsey3 said:

 

It appears grease had somehow gotten between the sealing plates and the hubs causing the plates to adhere strongly to the hubs.

 

 

That's weird.  Did they make a sucking noise then they came free?  Like a vacuum seal?

 

I notice a pretty deep lip on the adapters but it looks like the grease seal sits on top of the lip in your first picture.  I wonder if whoever made the adapters intended for you to leave the flat grease seal plate off, or if they thought that the grease seal plate would fit inside the lip.

 

You probably want to study how those parts fit together, your axle ends and adapter, and compare to how Nissan did it.  Not sure it's the same.  Maybe somebody has a picture of the stock setup bolted together.  Thanks for updating, it's interesting.

 

image.png.3d127747598f2cf64c46c9a29a616953.png

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There is at least a 1/8” or maybe 3/16” lip on the circumference of the hub mounting surface. The seal plate fits tightly inside the recess. This is done, I believe, to ensure that the CV joint mounts  hubcentricly rather than relying the six bolts to center it. The hub is a Modern Motorsports product. But if grease finds its way between the seal plate and the recessed hub surface, a hydraulic force develops between the two as there is very little clearance to let air in. Also, it is very difficult to insert any pry tool between them due to the recess within the hub. I was only able get a small screwdriver started where the tabs are, after bending them back and using a hammer to slowly work the blade deeper working in turn at all three tab cutouts. Then hammer blows did the rest and the joint body separates from the plate. After that, even the plate alone was not easily pried out of the recess. And, of course, grease everywhere.

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Update: I now have the R200 back, rebuilt by a local shop. Getting ready to install the circlips by inserting into the splines within the differential and pushing down with a 31 or 32mm socket until they pop into the grove towards the bottom. Hopefully no drama with this and also when I insert the axles hopefully with no more than a firm shove.

 

Due to some shipping misadventures when purchasing a remanufactured pair of 280ZXT CV axles from the source identified here earlier, I ended up with two drivers side axles.These are the shorter axles, about 5/16" shorter than driver side. Was going to reuse my passenger  side axle with the  new drivers side axle but after reading so many threads about Z31 axles being too long, I am now wondering if the 280ZXT axles also may be too long for the 240z chassis with R200. Can anyone comment on whether this is the case and therefore  I may be better off using two drivers side axles?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Are you sure that they are of different lengths?  The Z31's seem to be but this writeup suggests that the 280ZX's aren't.  Nissan part numbers would tell a story but I can't find them.

 

The aftermarket and reman companies are full of bad info.

 

http://www.zhome.com/rnt/FordPower/HalfShaft.html

 

zcarsource does not differentiate, and they are rebuilt Nissan parts.

 

https://zcarsource.com/rebuilt-cv-half-shaft-for-the-1981-83-datsun-nissan-280zx-turbo

 

Autozone does not either.  Good luck.

 

https://www.autozone.com/drivetrain/cv-axle/duralast-gold-cv-axle/346646_0_12552

Edited by NewZed

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Posted (edited)

Found some numbers.  Apparently they are different.

 

jmortensen, in past posts, has recommended removing the struts and running the suspension through its full travel to be sure there's no binding.

 

https://www.nissanpartsdeal.com/parts-list/1982-nissan-280zx/rear-drive-shaft.html?Diagram=396_002

 

You could swap the shafts...

 

image.png.39a95b756e5c8f955f4358a7a64852e6.png

Edited by NewZed

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I am very sure they are a short and long pair. I measured the depth from the outer oil seal to the bottom of the splines in the differential: driver's side 3 13/16",  passenger side 4 1/8", so 5/16" difference. Same as the length difference of the axles. 

 

The problem with running the shorter driver's side axle in the passenger side is that the circlip will not reach the retaining groove in the differential and therefore won't lock in. I will check for binding when I get the diff and axles back in.

 

Right now I'm having a helluva time getting the circlips started down the splines within the diff. I am prying on one end of the circlip with a screwdriver to get it started inside the splines but it keeps popping back out. If I can get it started square in the splines, I'm sure I will be able to push it down the rest of the way with a 32mm diameter socket. Just can't get it started and I don't want to pound on it with the socket without already having gotten some of the clip inside the splines.

 

Suggestions welcome. Have written to Quaife technical support for tips well.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Sorry, I wrote my post before my coffee kicked in.  Of course there's a right and a left because the splined diff shafts, of unequal length, are attached to the CV axles.  My mistake.

 

I don't know the Quaife internals but if it's open through the middle, maybe you can push a rod all the way through from the other, to press the clip against.  Stick the clip in cokced and use the rod as a backstop just to get it squared up.

 

If you can get a rod in there, you could shove the clip all the way down to the groove and catch an edge in the groove.  Then use the rod as a backstop and squeeze the clip in to the groove.  Less stress on the clip, it doesn't have to get so small.

Edited by NewZed

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Couldn't you install the circlip on the axle, and then get the axle started into the diff (which would hold the circlip square and in place until the axle's fully inserted, and secured in place)?  

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I suspect Quaife will advise you to install the circlips before installing the diff in the carrier. 

You might be better off biting the bullet and taking it out again. As long as you don't mix up the shims under the bearing cups you can't mess up the setup, so nothing to worry about. 

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I am planning to take the axles and diff back to the shop and let them install the circlips. They are telling me that the clips are installed on the axles. I want them to install them and then insert the axles into the diff. Then pull the axles out so I can be confident I can install and remove them in my garage. If they have trouble with this approach, I will ask them to disassemble the diff and install the clips that way.

 

Another wrinkle I have noticed which may cause a problem is that the axles that came out of my car have a rectangular cross section circlip groove. The replacements I have purchased have a more of a V shaped groove. The circlips I bought have a round cross section which would appear to fit the V cross section axle grooves and not my original axles with the rectangular cross section grooves. Perhaps why my axles had no clips at all. Does anyone know if there is a different clip for rectangular groove axles and the part number for same?

 

By the way, fyi, I have now bought two pairs of 1981-1983 280ZX Turbo remanufactured axles from different eBay vendors, both based in China I believe. Both sets contained equal length axles, the shorter ones for the drivers side. They seem to believe the axles are the same part and part #. On my R200, the passenger side depth from the outer seal to the circlip groove is 5/16” greater than the driver’s side. Appears using a short driver side axle in the passenger side will prevent the clip from reaching and engaging the groove. 

 

Thanks

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5 hours ago, Jlhalsey3 said:

Another wrinkle I have noticed which may cause a problem is that the axles that came out of my car have a rectangular cross section circlip groove. The replacements I have purchased have a more of a V shaped groove. The circlips I bought have a round cross section which would appear to fit the V cross section axle grooves and not my original axles with the rectangular cross section grooves. Perhaps why my axles had no clips at all. Does anyone know if there is a different clip for rectangular groove axles and the part number for same?

 

By the way, fyi, I have now bought two pairs of 1981-1983 280ZX Turbo remanufactured axles from different eBay vendors, both based in China I believe. Both sets contained equal length axles, the shorter ones for the drivers side. They seem to believe the axles are the same part and part #. On my R200, the passenger side depth from the outer seal to the circlip groove is 5/16” greater than the driver’s side. Appears using a short driver side axle in the passenger side will prevent the clip from reaching and engaging the groove. 

 

 

That's the basic problem, I think, the groove shapes are different.  Nissan changed the location of the clips around the time that they introduced the VLSD diffs.  If you get a VLSD diff, like from a 90's Nissan, the clips will come out with the axle.  If you have an early open or CLSD diff the clips stay inside.

 

I think that if you get two square grooves combined you could end up with a stuck axle.  Better inspect things closely.  Your shop is probably use to looking at VLSD's like on the 240SX.

 

 

There is a lot of confusion on the CV axles.  Some places even show the 240Z's used CV axles.  There's bad data out there.

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You should find a shop that knows Z cars and Quaifes.  The wrong shop could waste a lot of your time.  There are many people out there that are happy to guess, on your time and money.

 

The "clip" problem is pretty well known by people that have worked on the Datsun diffs.  A 510 shop would probably know also.

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