Guest tt350 Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 If anyone has built a v8, full-tube chassis 240z, please respond. I am beggining to think that it is a much better way to build the Z with a lot of horsepower than the unibody. I want to know how a tubey all comes together, such as the suspension, interior panels, and such. If anyone has knowledge in this are, please share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Unless you are skilled in tube fabrication I don't see how you could consider such a thing? The following URL may help some, they do custom tubular. http://www.artmorrison.com/F_streetstrip.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 a member of this board has.. blueovalz or something? they have a website http://www.fastassdatsun.com or something like that. i think it is an art morrison design. (square tube chassis) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tt350 Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 I was thinkin more about buying one, such as the one from Jegs, or Morrison. I still want an IRS (road race car) and good front steering and suspension, ubt im looking for the all-panel design (I like the simplicity, and I think it looks better than stock with just the stock dashboard). How would you go about modifiying one of these tubeys to fit something you want, cut and weld (but im guessing that that can impair a lot of things), or do you just order it with everything you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Without bending with a mandrel or hydraulic bender setup, you would compromise strength by hacking up the tubing and welding angles into it, you can legally do it in some race organizations but you must run larger tubing, tubing size depends on the weight of the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Here are a couple of links for tools. Williams Low buck has an awesome tube shear notcher, no pesky hole saws http://www.lowbucktools.com/ JD Squared has the best bender for the $ according to my research. http://www.jd2.com/ I am going to buy both as soon as I sell my old boat. If you don't have any fab or welding experience, I would suggest starting with a different kind of project... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tt350 Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Thanks for the info, but what do oyu guys think about just buying a Jeg's frame. Are they good, and do they have the mounts for suspensions, floorboards and dash, diif, tranny, and all that? I really need to see one (they are cheap), and I like the tube frame Idea very much. Hit me back Thanks all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Jegs kit is a drag racer kit. Buy a copy of Circle Track magazine and find out what is out there. I wouldn't even consider a tube from "kit" for anything other than a very common body style for drag racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peej410 Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 the art morrison frame used by the fastassdatsun.com guys is just that, art!, take a look at all their pictures throughout the whole website. youll see some of the problems they had to endure, and this will help you in the long run. they are using a c4 corvette front and rear suspension (irs) both are beautiful and more then capable of handling what youd like to throw at it. i am slowly teaching myself fabrication and doing it on my Z but thats only because i know that in the future i will build another even better, heck maybe ill just cut this one up again, i wish cars were like legos. just smash it up and make another with the same parts. too bad thats fairly cost prohibitive in the real world. dont be afraid to get your hands dirty with fabrication, if you take your time and buy all the right tools you will have more then a wealth of knowledge when your task is complete. your also lucky to have one of the best forums out there to help you out and give you advice. if it wasnt for these guys i wouldnt of ever made it this far. goodluck and i want a ride when yer done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacer Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 There are pictures of a full tube frame chassis in the Arizona Z catalog but: A) I don't know if they manufacture it anymore Even if they did most people won't deal with them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Check out this site: 502ZX Go to "BUILD UP>CHASSIS" to see how things are coming together on my 1000+ HP 280ZX, the site and the car are still under construction, the kit was put together by Dan Beaudry at Pro Gas Engineering and is a thing of beauty. I used an Art Morrison 4-link but elected to retain the stock front clip. By tieing the motor into the structure via the motor plates it should by strong enough....we will see. Site should be updated soon with engine/drivetrain details. You can contact Dan @ Pro Gas by phone: 604-594-9774, let him know what you are after and tell him Bob Strain referred you, his work is first rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Check out this site: 502ZX Go to "BUILD UP>CHASSIS" to see how things are coming together on my 1000+ HP 280ZX, the site and the car are still under construction, the kit was put together by Dan Beaudry at Pro Gas Engineering and is a thing of beauty. I used an Art Morrison 4-link but elected to retain the stock front clip. By tieing the motor into the structure via the motor plates it should by strong enough....we will see. Site should be updated soon with engine/drivetrain details. You can contact Dan @ Pro Gas by phone: 604-594-9774, let him know what you are after and tell him Bob Strain referred you, his work is first rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8ZRACER260Z Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 I'm currently building a tube frame with 2x3" bottom and 1 3/4" tubing on the cage & braces. You can visit the link at the bottom of my post. Use my user name in the white box on the left of the picturetrail page. I have been planning this for over 3 years and finally started about a month ago. I am using a full C4 vette suspension. Mine differs from that of "fastassdatsun" in that my setup is a perimeter frame. This keeps the seat mounts at the factory height. Mine also incorporates the factory vette front crossmember which can be unbolted. This allows me to drop the front suspension & engine at once. This also positions the engine in a front mid engine design. This involves moving the firewall back several inches, which can be tricky. I'll be forming the firewall this week and will post updated pics soon. I also narrowed the rear end by 8" allowing for the 335/35R17's to bee on the back with only 3" flares. As soon as I am done with the frame I'll purchase the new rims & tires and then fit the body to them. Good luck on your set up! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tt350 Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Hey 260z guy, your setup is exactly what I had in mind. I need to learn a lot more about what you did, so ill be emailing you a lot (hope you dont mind). Will this setup hold more than 800 hp/Torque from a Turbo v8? Thanks for your post. It has been 5 tons of help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8ZRACER260Z Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 The intended goal for my car is a twin turbo V8. I'll be going the conservitive route with a target of 550 to 650 HP. Mine is a daily driver with occasional track time. My friend Mike & I are taking measurements as we go and should be offering plans or a frame kit to those interested in doing something similar. Keep in mind this is a major job. Do all your home work before starting or use the experiences that others have learned. I planned this for over 5 years and just started the cconversion a month ago. Good luck and I'll help out where I can. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Besides those mentioned already, there are several full tube frames on this board. Perhaps the most thorough belongs to “japtin”. Ron Jones has a similar variant. Mine is essentially a tube frame, though it’s welded into the unibody and uses the unibody panels as shear webs etc. It was built on a jig. The car was sawed into three pieces, the frame was welded into the unibody, and then the unibody was welded back together. The tradeoff in this approach vs. a true tube frame is less welding and design work for the frame, but more sheet metal work. A true tube frame differs from a “ladder” subframe (such as Chris Alston or Art Morrison) that slides “underneath” the unibody, then gets a roll cage added. A true tube frame doesn’t have frame rails per se; a jungle-gym-looking framework supports the engine, driveline, suspension and seats. The roll cage helps to bear the suspension and driveline loads. The retail cost of designing and building a tube frame is around $20K (mild steel – maybe $30K in chromoly). Of course, if you have access to specialized tools, a race car shop and mentors to assist you, things would be different. But if you’re shooting for a 1000+ hp road racer, $20K is probably not such a large expense. Chassis sold in catalog stores such as Jegs are just kits – collections of tubes. Welding them together is left up to the customer. The kits are generic, and will require extensive customization to fit to any particular vehicle; rest assured that none of the catalog stores will have a kit customized for the Z. When I shopped around for such kits, about 5 years ago, salesmen would tell me, “Datsun Z, right? Hey, that’s just like a Chevy Vega. I mean, Ford Pinto. Oh never mind, they’re all subcompacts. Our kit fits all of them”. An alternative approach might be to concentrate on weight reduction, rather than all-out horsepower. What power to weight ratio were you shooting for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tt350 Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I am shootin for a very high power to very low weight ratio. Anyway, if you decide (and please, for heavens sake) that you do want to make a Kit, ill be the first buyer. I really dont want to spend 5 years planning out something thats already been done, you know? You see, I dont want to just drop in a v8 TT the first thing, but I want to make the body, brakes, etc. ready for it. At first, ill probably just have the stock l24, and as I gain experiacne with the car, ill move up to NA small block, then AWD, then Turbo Small block (or aluminum big block). That is my plan. So I just want to build a frame just like v8zracer's, cuz on his, you can just drop the engine bay (kinda) and play around as much as you want! This means all I have to swap in later is a tranny, diff, and the engine. The AWD is my last step, so I wont worry about that now. V8Zracer, I think we need to become freinds, cuz Im with you for the long haul. LOL. I wont be a tick, but I will need your help big time. Maybe you could sell me your frame plan drawings? LOL. Seriously though, you should think about seliing that kit man. Just dont make it over 10K., please> Good luck on your car, for the both of us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LS1T Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I still dont understand how you think your going to just go from an RWD set up to a AWD set up so easily? Everything will change. Your front suspension/steering/crossmember will all be different because now you have to put in a axle/differental. This will most likely not just bolt up so easily as you might think. Also where do you plan to put a transfer case? Heck most guys have to bang up the tunnel just to fit the T56 in there! I'm not bashing you but I think you really need to do a lot more planning that you are right now. For one 1000HP is almost un-usable on a autocross track. Now for a drag car that makes sense but then you would have to tube the rear end for the tires that you would need for it to "hook up" I just don't understand why you think you need 1000HP to be fast on an autocross course? Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tt350 Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I will not be using all the HP on an autocross course (Road Racing)! As I have stated earlier, the AWD will come much later, and probably by the tijme I wanna switch, I will be experienced enough with the car with a hot 350, that I can handle it with a turbo 350 without the AWD. I plan to autcoross the car first, then go road racing. OR, I might go ahead and put in all the AWD stuff right now (what I was thinkin was the Pikes Peak stuff) and just go with a l24, then 350, then turbo 350. I dont know, I wish there was someone here with an AWD, that way I can gain a lot. Who sells the Pikes Peak race equipment, anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peej410 Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 your only luck is go to http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/gtr/index.html there u will find resources to mount american engines to porsche gearboxes other then that i really dont think you should even consider it, it sounds like your thinking too much about gran turismo on playstation and not too much about reality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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