David K Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 The Sub-compact thing was BOOMING LONG before F&F. I don't know what country you've been in' date=' but I've got SSC and Turbo & Hi Tech mags from the 90s with TONS of relatively fast imports... Bob, I'm interested in your background and what other cars you've built? Also How old are you??? Mike[/quote'] Mike you are correct. It all started with Mini Trucks and Volkwagons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffp Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 You know it really is not that hard to do the machining on this stuff, but unless you have your own shop the machining costs will kill you. I have never looked at an RB head off the engine so I cant say one way or the other. The oil pump, well there is another matter all together, if you are taking the time to get an already made pump, then why dont you just design a new pump all together. You know the Nissan pump is not all that great, the L series pump or the VG series pumps. Thay run very low pressure at idle, and I have done things to get my pressure up somewhat, but not to whaer I want it. Yes my head is ported, but I haven't messed with the intake except to port match it to the head. There is alot of room for improvement in the intake area. I am also running a larger exhaust valve in the head so it does breeth better. Keep in mind iw was making those numbers with a stock turbo exhaust manifold. Now I have a header type configuration (that I am having to do most of the design work on to make it work on the car) and it is the log type configuration, but what is good about this manifold is that ALL of the ports and tubes to the collector are much larger. I will get much better folw to the turbo, with less back pressure and more evenly spaced across eack exhaust port. Being a turbo application, there is a little more room for error just because now you are going to forced air in stead of N/A application. Little misalignments, although are not ideal, will not make a significant difference in how much air/fuel you can stuff down into the engine. You will have better efficiency with good port matching, opening the port up, larger valves, and all of that Jazz. You know, if you want more flow out of an L series head thatr a few things you can do like going to a valve with a 7mm valve stem, in stead of 8mm, if you are really radical, you can shorten the valve guide and increase the volume of the port, so there are tricks that you can do to increase the flow of the head, the question you have to ask yourself is how long do I want this engine to last???? The things the old racers did to their engines didn't necessaraly promote long engine life, and they did not have to have engine life, they just had to win races however they could. I myself was considering 7mm valve stems, and I did contact ISKY to have them make me a set of retainers, locks, and shims to run a 7mm manley stainless valve. That would be trick, and it would work excellent. For the temp issue that seems to be a topic of dicussion, well there is a good solution to that one to, in stead of running the stock heat shield, build two with about a 1/4 spacing between the two, get as much distance from the intake as you can with the first shield, Jet hot coat the bottom shield, and that guys will cool off the intake significantly, problem solved for the most part. So then we are back to the flow of the head again. You see it is a give and take, give and take situation, every improvement will require an improvement in another area to acheive better results. So now that we have figured out the engine, what about the rest of the drive train, and the chassis of the car also. We are not talking about bumping the hp and torque 50-100 hp now we are talking about bumping the hp and torque by a factor of 3- 3.5 on a car that started out with very conservative hp/torque ratings from Nissan. How the heck do you hold the car together with all that engine under the hood??? I finally have a manual transmission solution, and a differential solution, but the freakin car is going to bend. so go figure, it all works together for a complete package, and you need the complete package to make a real hotrod of a car, not just wide tires. anyway some of my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 Hey jeff tell me a little more about the manual transmission/differential solution? Please don't say I have to do a search =p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 ed73z : Yeah I would love to help out as much as I can...just tell me what I can do. turbobluestreak : I can send you an oild pump next time I go down to the Junk Yard...I'll pick one up if it's avalible. Mikelly : Well if you must know 83" camaro v6 to v8 project(ran out of money sold it all),87" Lincoln continel convert to aftermarket airbags and slap on a BLOWZILLA blower(again ran out of money)...do you wont me to go on ? ~BB~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 You know it really is not that hard to do the machining on this stuff' date=' but unless you have your own shop the machining costs will kill you. I have never looked at an RB head off the engine so I cant say one way or the other. The oil pump, well there is another matter all together, if you are taking the time to get an already made pump, then why dont you just design a new pump all together. You know the Nissan pump is not all that great, the L series pump or the VG series pumps. Thay run very low pressure at idle, and I have done things to get my pressure up somewhat, but not to whaer I want it. Yes my head is ported, but I haven't messed with the intake except to port match it to the head. There is alot of room for improvement in the intake area. I am also running a larger exhaust valve in the head so it does breeth better. Keep in mind iw was making those numbers with a stock turbo exhaust manifold. Now I have a header type configuration (that I am having to do most of the design work on to make it work on the car) and it is the log type configuration, but what is good about this manifold is that ALL of the ports and tubes to the collector are much larger. I will get much better folw to the turbo, with less back pressure and more evenly spaced across eack exhaust port. Being a turbo application, there is a little more room for error just because now you are going to forced air in stead of N/A application. Little misalignments, although are not ideal, will not make a significant difference in how much air/fuel you can stuff down into the engine. You will have better efficiency with good port matching, opening the port up, larger valves, and all of that Jazz. You know, if you want more flow out of an L series head thatr a few things you can do like going to a valve with a 7mm valve stem, in stead of 8mm, if you are really radical, you can shorten the valve guide and increase the volume of the port, so there are tricks that you can do to increase the flow of the head, the question you have to ask yourself is how long do I want this engine to last???? The things the old racers did to their engines didn't necessaraly promote long engine life, and they did not have to have engine life, they just had to win races however they could. I myself was considering 7mm valve stems, and I did contact ISKY to have them make me a set of retainers, locks, and shims to run a 7mm manley stainless valve. That would be trick, and it would work excellent. For the temp issue that seems to be a topic of dicussion, well there is a good solution to that one to, in stead of running the stock heat shield, build two with about a 1/4 spacing between the two, get as much distance from the intake as you can with the first shield, Jet hot coat the bottom shield, and that guys will cool off the intake significantly, problem solved for the most part. So then we are back to the flow of the head again. You see it is a give and take, give and take situation, every improvement will require an improvement in another area to acheive better results. So now that we have figured out the engine, what about the rest of the drive train, and the chassis of the car also. We are not talking about bumping the hp and torque 50-100 hp now we are talking about bumping the hp and torque by a factor of 3- 3.5 on a car that started out with very conservative hp/torque ratings from Nissan. How the heck do you hold the car together with all that engine under the hood??? I finally have a manual transmission solution, and a differential solution, but the freakin car is going to bend. so go figure, it all works together for a complete package, and you need the complete package to make a real hotrod of a car, not just wide tires. anyway some of my thoughts. [/quote'] You could also try giving the guys at motorex a call and see what light they could shine on the situation. I don't know what you guy's ability to speak japanese is like. But if it any good try calling TopSecret in Japan and see if anything over in japan has been either developed or if someone if working on the same deal. It might not be though since in japan anything is considered junkable after it hits like what 64k or something on the motor ? ~BB~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 It all started with Mini Trucks and Volkwagons. That made me laugh really hard. But to an extent, true. I wouldn't say it all started with them, but they sure had an impact. I grew up in Arizona, Mesa,(near pheonix). To say there was a huge mini trucking contingent is a huge understatement. I do want to address one thing here: You could also try giving the guys at motorex a call First, no bold please. And esp. no bold with larger letters. It distracts from your message. Anyways, Motorex is a great company to call if you want a Skyline GT-R, or order a front clip,(not something they really do more than dabble in). They can shed some light on what to do to make the RB26 work in the GT-R and what to do for power. They are pretty much useless about using it in other cars. I have the motor, and have looked into lots of companies. Sean who used to work there seems to have a good grasp on the motor itself and I gone to him for some of the mods I have done,(his advice that is). I only offer this up as a FYI as most don't realize that. Your answer is the standard answer someone gives when the RB subject comes up so don't feel bad. And I can safely say there is noone in japan working on a non stock L series head. Top secret, Jun and other big name Japaneese companies put their research and development money into projects that will return their money. an aftermarket L series head won't. This is borne out by the relucatance of O.S. Giken to re-introduce their cross flow head. Besides, Jeff has more than found a great way to get incredible power from the stock L series heads,(along with a few others such as James). -Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffp Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 I have completed an upgrade to the T5 in our cars. I am now about ready to install a Tremec TKO2 five speed tranny in my car. This is a beefy unit that will withstand alot of abuse. The mustang guys are running 9 second cars with them. I figure that is good for us also. The gearing is good and it is a close ratio tranny with fifth gear being a .82 overdrive. The T5 is .750 overdrive. With the tranny upgrade I am also doing a drive line upgrade with spicer 1310 universal joints, those should hold up just fine, and if not, you can replace them for about 12.00 The last component is the differential. I am mating the drive line up to a LSD turbo flange, and spicer makes the companion flange that uses a 1310 universal juint so the drive line will be beefy also. The differential is a Quaife unit R200 style with a 3:71 gear set. Quaife has an unlimited warranty on their unit with an unlimited power rating, so that should be bullet proof also, and if not, I get a free replacement. I am using the turbo CV half shafts, the stub axels have been shoot peened, and I installed moroso 26thread X 1/2"X3" studs for the lugs, with that I am running a set of 15X8.5 centerline convo pro's This combination of parts is about the strongest you can get for our cars. Now if I was building a strait drag car, I would install a custom engine plate, strengthen the frame rails around the front cross member then I would link the front and rear sub frames (cross members) and for the torque cross link the two. Then I would be easily be able to install a 5 point roll cage. strengthen the schock towers in the car, and finish it up with a Ford 9" differential with tubs. That would be a strong car that could be consistantly raced and not bend in half. anyway if you want to see the new tranny you can see it on my web page at http://www.angelfire.com/extreme/280zxt/page24.html I have pics of both the trannies side by side, and front views and the rest of the parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spork Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 Not to bring up a really old thread, but I want some updates...and maybe a little more info. Does anyone have any solid info on the highest powered/fastest 1/4 Z with the L series motor stateside (or elsewhere)? I've got plans to build a pretty mean drag car going from the experiences I've had with my street car, but I've been doing a lot of research first. People keep throwing out that the cranks can break at certain rpms, and the non-cross flow heads we have won't cut the mustard, but I know there has to be some meaner L-series cars than mine and I wanna know about them. The car will handle the power, but can the engine make the power I want. I don't want to hear about going with another engine at this point, but want to hear more about the L-series first. My car should be around 525rwhp (according to mph in the 1/4) or a little over 600 at the crank. I know there is more power to be had in this car cause I still haven't had a chance to put it on the dyno and get it tuned. I'm looking to run mid to low 8's and maybe even mae it into the 7's some day. I don't want to be told it can't be done, but rather the interesting ideas you guys have of how it "might" be done. Transmission and differential are the easy part of this build as well as building the chassis correctly. Give me some experiences that you guys have encountered at high power levels. Stronger cranks can be made, good dampners can be found, heads can be coated to help with heat transfer and the car will also probably be running methanol to keep things cool as well. Who's gone with the lightweight valve train and had good experinces? I've talked to guys with going to smaller stemmed chevy valves and then using the titanium retainers and lightening things up there quite a bit. Anyways, throw out some ideas. I know this isn't a cheap build, but want to hear the ideas. Any cylinder head used has to be a production head in runs of 500 or more if memory serves me correct on the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 the highest powered/fastest 1/4 Z ............. I've got plans to build a pretty mean drag car Let me throw my in and it will have nothing to do with how to make the most HP out of the L28et. Let me start off by saying in drag racing the most HP is not always the fastest (actually you should be saying quickest) car. You say you want to build a pretty mean drag car and I say there seems to be too much focus on maximum HP and not enough on the transmission and suspension. If you are looking at a seriously quick, big HP turbo drag car then you need to be looking at an auto tranny conversion. An auto tranny with a dialed-in converter could probably be worth as much as 75hp over a manual setup. So I do not get misinterpreted, let me state that another way. Given 2 turboZs with equal high HP engines, the manual car COULD need as much as 75 more HP to run the same ET and I do not care how much MPH the manual can get. MPH does not win drag races. 240Z Turbo went from low-11s to 10.6 with a switch to a Glide! It takes a lot of HP to go from low-11s to 10.6. The other thing is the 60' and having tons of HP does not guarantee quick 60' times if the car does not have the right suspension setup and tires. My GNZ HP factored out to a measly 520rwhp but it was unmatched out of hole which is what makes for quick ETs. With the kind of HP you are talking about, you should be shooting for a 60' in the 1.40 - 1.42 range. HP alone will not get it for you. I know some folks here thought I went overboard with the C4 IRS but the results spoke for themselves. I would say for the L28et, follow the combo that TimZ or JeffP has done if you have a fat wallet. But you are going to need a fat wallet to make that kind of HP from the L28et anyway. While both of those setups have generated big numbers, neither has run serious 1/4-miles so no gurantee those combos are conducive to quick ETs. Stay away from turbos that make big HP on the dyno but needs 330' to get fully spooled up. You want to be at FULL BOOST at the 60' mark and you want to do it consistently. AFAIK, 240Z Turbo's 10.6 is one of the quickest ETs for an L28et. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spork Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Lol, I know what you mean by the highest powered cars not always being the fastest, which is why I included "fastest" in the section you quoted. I just didn't want to start a new thread that was going in a very similar direction as this one did. I'm also well aware of the benefits of the drivetrain, and I thats why I've got plans for using a powerglide and a solid axle and 4 link in the rear to help avoid parts breakage, allow to run some wide tires by tubing it, and put that power to the ground. 60ft times is where its all at! That's why I'm building this drag car...I'm tired of feathering my street car out of the hole, and I'm not ready to spend the big money on it, when I'm really looking to build a full drag car and start from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzed Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 James I wish I had your engine in my car! Your MPH with my 1.57 60' would make for a nice quick ride down the 1320! Not quick like you are looking for but a nice solid 10 second car you could drive to the track eh? I have to agree with Scottie-GNZ as both me and a buddy run 260Z's at our local track with similar setups except for I run an auto and he uses a stick. I also have a little more traction than he does - slicks vs drag radials. He has run a best of 12.6 at 115 with his 5 spd car while I'm running mid 11's at 116 with the 3N71B auto. I leave him like he is standing still out of the hole then he chases me all the way down the track. Lots of fun (for me at least)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spork Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 The auto trans in a drag car is the way to go...no question about it. If I don't end up selling my car listed in my signature (I need money to fund the drag car), it may end up with an auto as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.