Guest Anonymous Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 So here is the scoop. I have a '75 Datsun 280Z that looks good but the perforamance is less than exciting. I know I need to do a few things to the suspension like replace the bushings wth poly, maybe the ball joints, etc. Overall it looks great: I, however, would like to do a little something more. A friend has a Ford 302 and a Chevy 350 in his garage, either he will give me. More than likely I will rebuild my choice. I am thinking of swapping it for the L6. Which will be closest to the weight of my Z? Which will be the easier swap? What transmission (5-speed) would I mount for each? Would this be a good time to do the AutoMeter guage upgrade? Wiring? Driveline? Will the steering rack clear the engine or must it be modified? What have I not thought of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 there are more parts and support for the chevy swap and the extra displacement of the chevy adds additional torque plus chevy parts are cheaper on average, the only plus for the ford I see is that you can get it for free but so is the chevy so no net gain even there,the other guys can give you more swap info.but Im partial to 4l80e transmissions or 700r4 transmissions , the automatics seem to hold up better than the 4-5 speed manual transmissions if you have a tendency to build high hp engines . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 while its true I like chevys mostly because Im not rich and like the most hp for money spent, the next (Z) I build.. if I have a choice in picking the parts, will have a 500 caddy engine and a 4L80e trans and a TURBO 300(Z) rear suspension as I think that combo will be differant and lots of fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 The above gents are all correct, I'll give my .01, if your looking for easy, go with the Chevy, it has mounts, ton's of documentation (get the JTR manual first stop, and no I don't work for them) and many more swaps under its belt so getting info is real easy. The handling with the Chevy V8 is about even if you use aluminum heads, but even without them I think my corners very flat and oversteer is just a gas pedal away , I only have slightly stiffer springs and sway bars. Lastly, and others may say its close pricewise, but working on a Non-Z FORD project right now, and I'm not convinced, they're still far more expensive IMHO and less Ford parts are available in the speed shops I've frequented, sure they have some, but need to order much. If you shop through summit not a issue with that, but the price will still be from a bit higher, to very much higher. As I say, thats my opinion, if your thrifty and hooked up to some Mustang sites and stuff and can get the parts used at a good discount, much of the price discrepency will be diminished. Look through the archives on this site, much will be revealed as to what 5sp to use etc etc. Good luck, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Grumpy's partial to bowties. That's ok. Hey, I put a Chebby in mine. But the Ford swap is sweet. Other advantages are lower weight gain. The 302 is very close in weight to the L6. The 350 is about 140lbs heavier. No hood latch mod with the dizzy forward Ford. The T5 tranny in either GM of Ford configuration works well in both swaps unless you need to go big on the hp. No kit for the Ford, get out your welder, your on your own. But several here have gone before you. Terry (Blueoval) and Jon (Jumbo 240) to name two very active members. MSA and JTR make kits for the SBC. Or you can just buy the JTR book that has drawings and templates for the motor and tranny mounts. Either way you go buy the JTR book first. As has been said here many times before, " this is the first step". And Welcome! Beautiful Z! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 A Ford swap is inreresting but with the Chev conversion you can rely on a routine swap with few surprises. I would go with the 350 SBC because I do not like mechanical surprises but rather order and routine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Want aZ Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Just a thought here but could, (would) it be possible to use a modified JTR setback mount on the Ford 302, things that make you think? Was just wondering, I am planning on doing a hybrid and can get a 302 for freethat came out of father in laws truck, needs a crank and associated rebuild, but I could make it a stroker 347??? any thoughts on this??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utvolman99 Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 This is all JMO but I would go with the chevy. A couple of years ago I built a 351W for a 69 mustang. The heads are what kill a ford engine. If you are going to go with aftermarket heads then this isnt much of a problem but if you want to use the stock heads you probably want to go with the chevy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utvolman99 Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Damon, one thing to think about is total price of the project. Lets say you did go stroker. You could probably buy a 350 and stroke it cheaper than you could stroke a free 302! Jegs stoker kits Notice the ford cost about $480 more. The rest of the engine will also cost you for instance if you want to put a Victor Jr. intake you will fork out another $40 for the ford. Dont get me wrong Fords are great engines. You just pay for them! I would probably choose a ford 347 over a chevy 350 with the same heads and equipment. With that said the price is nowhere near the same ball park! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Now if I go Chevy (which it really is even money right now because I have both options available to me free) I have heard that I need to modify my hood bracket/closer/latch-thingie. True? Other surprises? Anyone have a JTR manual they want to sell cheap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utvolman99 Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Yes you will, you can either modify it, move it to one side or do away with it and go with pins. One other thing to check on would be engine height. Im not sure if the ford is shorter than the chevy but sometimes hood clearance can be an issue. This is only if you are wanting to use a full size high rise intake or a tall air cleaner. Most can fit the performer RPM or Vic Jr. with no problem as long as a drop filter is used. One little surprise you will run into with the Ford concerns the driveshaft. JTR sells a differential yoke that accepts a chevy U-joint. That way you can the strong chevy, chevy setup. If you go ford you will either have to find an adapter style U-joint or have a datsun end welded onto your driveshaft. the datsun U-joint is not as strong as the chevy. This on one other thing that convinced my to go chevy. I started this wanted to go with a 5.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 T-wolf, at $35 the JTR manual is cheap brand new. Honestly, it is well worth several times it's price. Most guys like to keep theirs long after the swap is done. Mine is crammed full of hand written notes. (And grease) I'd never part with mine. Here's the link JTR home page They'll send it right to your door. And no, I don't own any JTR stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 You don't have to move the hood latch if you go distributorless ignition. Such as the stock LT1/4 engines. Or add an electromotive multi coil system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedRacer Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Timberwolf, Listen to Dan and get the JTR manual. Here are a couple of other things to think about. The oil pickup sump is in the front on a Ford. You will have to get a "split" pan and associated pickup tube/screen. You will still have to mount it a bit higher in the car than the SBC to clear the steering rack and crossmember. You mentioned a 5-speed. Ford doesn't have any manual trans cars with a hydraulic clutch. You will have to use a hydraulic throwout bearing. Using the JTR method you can make the Chevy look like the folks from Nissan engineered it that way. Nothing against Ford but IMHO the SBC is the easiest, quickest and provides the best "fit." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Let me add to the chorus recommending that you consult the JTR book and get a feel for the issues involved in installing the small block Chevy, regardless of your eventual choice. However, I would like to depart from the chorus in this regard: whereas the Chevy swap is probably the better choice from the point of view of upgradability and maximum performance, the Ford 302 swap might make for a better "sorta-stock" hybrid. The reason is that the Ford engine is considerably smaller and lighter. The T5 transmission and the stock clutch assembly should do just fine in the Z (not so for a 400 hp Chevy engine). There are, of course, aggressively built Ford engines too. But it seems to me that if one were to build the "low-buck hybrid" such as the first version that the JTR book recommends, the Ford version would be the more livable combo. Too bad that the Ford's sump is backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 FYI, my I use the front sump oil pan on my Ford install. I use a tremec 3550 5-speed and a wilwood slave cylinder. My engine is mounted lower than the JTR chevy version, and farther back. The mounts are easy to fab, there are diagrams to follow posted on this site. I didn't have to raise or lower the diff to get correct angles, I adjusted the angle at the transmission mount. I installed a GT-40 crate motor with the manifold and carb has been dyno'ed by "Hot Rod" magazine at 377 hp. It took me two months to do the install (weekend work). If you want to do it, you can do it. Click on my pics and look at how the sbf fits. Just food for thought. Think about it. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Oh yeah, email me if you want specifics. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Damon, don't give up on a Ford stroker; just consider a different one: the 331. Last time I checked, Scat's cast 3.25" stroke crank was only $275 and if you can glarm up a set of 289 rods and give them a .927" pin bore when you replace the bolts, the Silvolite dish-top 5.7" rod 383 Chevy pistons from Summit will work and sell for $250. You'll be working with about +.010" piston deck height for good quench too. Just check for valve clearance with hi-lift cams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Not cheap enough? Ok. Get the Scat crank and use the stock 302 rods, add the .927" pin bores, fresh rod bolts and use rebuilder 350 Chevy 4-relief flat-top pistons with .060" removed from the tops and the skirts shortened to clear the crank counterweights. Again, check for valve clearance and flycut the reliefs if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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