Guest dvlax28 Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 i have a p79 head, a 280zx non turbo engine in my 240z. i dont know if the firing order is correct, and i just got new spark plugs and wire looms so i need to check if the firing order is right....where can i find that info? Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Firing order is 1 5 3 6 2 4., rotation is counter clockwise. Came from A haynes manual for the 280zx 79-83. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ZmeFly Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Its like that for all our inliners. 153624 on the dizzy counter clockwise. number one on the motor is the plug closest to the bumper. 123456 to the firewall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dvlax28 Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Hey thanks for the information. Things got a little more complicated although. I turned the crank to Cylinder 1 (TDC) and found that the rotor (on the distributor) points toward about one o'clock standing on the driver side looking toward the engine. Somebody told me that the rotor should point "just forward of the bottom clip." This would be around seven or eight o'clock (looking from the same position). It appears to be 180 degrees out. I thought I could remove the distributor and rotate it to the lower position but it appears to be keyed to only go in one way. The car runs well and firing order is correct (and going counter-clockwise). I don't know what the timing is set at because the pointer is somehow missing from the engine. It is about centered on the distributor's range of motion. It doesn't appear to ping either. I am having a problem passing emissions (Hydrocarbons very high at idle) and CO is about twice the maximum at 30 MPH. I just rebuilt the carburetor and it runs pretty well. Does anyone has any ideas about the distributor and why it is 180 degrees out?. How can the car run well? It is very fast and has no hestiation. This is a 280ZX 2.8L (F54 Block and P79 head) in a 73 240z. I have a Clifford intake and exhaust headers too. Thanks a ton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbobluestreak Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Are you sure that you had it on tdc on compression stroke? also if your missing the "pointer" then how can you detrimine with any percision that that is TDC, I know it can be done to check to see if your crank pully sliped? You really need to get a haynes manual or even better a FSM. tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Um, if the emisions are too high, I would suspect the catalytic converter is dead. If the ignition/timing was out enough to fail an e-test that bad, the car would run like crap. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dvlax28 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 wow thanks for the info datsunlover. now i know that my catalytic converter is dead. in fact, i believe it was dead the second the car was made in '73. cuz it never has had a converter anyways, i finally found how to connect up my 2 electric fans with the relay and thermostatic switch after wayyy too long. and i got a nice coolant return system from the junkyard. so now all i need is to figure out this stupid distributor. i have read about dizzy's being 180-out and still running, but if the groove only fits that way when i tried to rotate it, what can i do? thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Ok.. I didn't realize what year your car was (pardon my stupidity for not seeng '240' and making the conection! ).. but what are you running for a carb(s)? If your runing a bit rich, that might make the emisions high... But I don't know much aout carbs besides the basics, and don't know what to tell you about the dizzy so I think it's time to bow out of this conversation.. good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dvlax28 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 i just rebuilt the carter afb 4-barrel carb and it still runs a little rich, possibly jet size needs to be lowered, and the carb still needs to be tweaked. im hoping some Z guy will let me in on some secret about the distributor and firing order because i don't know what else to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Confederado120 Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 You need to verify TDC compression stroke first. Remove valve cover, crank engine over by hand in clockwise direction (standing in front of car looking to rear). Watch the #1 cyl. set of valves, when they are both closed at the same time (springs at longest position) you are nearing TDC compression. Because you have no timing pointer. Remove #1 spark plug. Use a piece of welding rod or something similiar, to feel the top of the piston. Continue to crank engine over by hand until you no longer feel piston travel. TDC will be very brief, if you go to far, piston will start to lower. You may have to go back and forth turning the engine over at this point, to get it in just the right spot. Be careful doing this, dont get rod caught in side ring area of piston. Once you have this done. Now where is rotor pointing? From my own experience on my 240 7 o'clock area is correct. If pointing drastically somewhere else, distributer drive is in wrong position. Remove dist. This only needs to be done if you want to reclock dist. Clamp drive with needle nose vice grips on shaft to hold in place from dropping. Drop oil pump from front cover. Lower dist. driveshaft slightly position it where you want it. You will notice that when putting it in position, that it is geared from crankshaft. So, it will move slightly when setting it in place. Reinstall oilpump, make sure shaft is seated in pump. Now dist. rotor should be in correct position, or close. You may have to do this resetting of drive more than once to get it right. If your dist. was way off, make sure spark plug wires are correctly positioned on distributer cap. Probably as, or more important than reclocking the dist. Once TDC compression is established. Mark balancer somewhere where you can read it and mark the block as well for a makeshift timing mark. If you have an advance timing light, you could time it this way. Not most accurate, but would get you close. At this point you should really get a timing mark, it would make life easier. Shouldn't be to hard to pick one up used from wrecking yard. Also, once TDC compression is verified using above procedure. With a factory timing mark you can check to see if your balancer is spun. Hope this helps, Walt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dvlax28 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Hi Walt, thanks for your advice and suggestions. i have a few other questions... Does it matter if the distributor is 180 degrees out, because i'm at 2 o'clock, instead of seven o'clock. the car runs really well, but it's running rich. is it possible that being out of rotation 180 could cause the car to run rich? By the way, its a 280zx engine, p79 head, with a carter 4-barrel carb on a clifford intake. i would like to avoid taking apart the engine if possible. is there any problem or damage if we leave the distributor where it is at currently? i will mark the balancer where it is at, and get a timing mark from a junkyard. if you have any ideas about why it is running rich, i would appreciate any thoughts. the exact carb is a Carter AFB competition series 4-barrel carburetor. thanks a lot, Jason ps- i am posting this instead of emailing just in case someone else has any ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Confederado120 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Being at 2'oclock shouldnt cause you to run rich. When setting timing just hook up your timing light to #1 still. Only difference is it will be in a different location than normal. Not a big deal as long as firing order is correct. What size is your Carter? I think most use the Holley 390 when going 4bbl. Not sure if Carter makes a AFB smaller than the Holley 390. I also seem to recall reading some posts about the 390 being to big for Z's. I would suspect that your carb is to big and or jetted to fat. Sorry can't recommend jet sizes. Walt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nic-Rebel450CA Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Does it matter if the distributor is 180 degrees out' date=' because i'm at 2 o'clock, instead of seven o'clock. the car runs really well, but it's running rich. is it possible that being out of rotation 180 could cause the car to run rich?[/quote'] The timing has no affect on the AFM of the carb. If the distributor is 180* out, and the wires are connected 180* in rotation as well then you are no longer 180* out and there is not a problem. If the distributor is 180* out and the wires are still located where they would be if the distributor was mounted correctly, then you would be 180* out and the engine wouldnt run. Timing is going to have VERY little affect on emissions. If your timing is off for a long time then you may get some deposits from incomplete burn, but fixing the timing will not fix the problem. It will only keep it from getting worse. To get rid of deposits you need to run some treatment in the gas or maybe even pull the head to clean the cylinders/valves if the deposits are bad enough. High HC comes from deposits, high CO comes from incomplete burn (timing off, weak spark, bad AFM, etc). A 4bbl setup on a 2.8 would not be my choice for an engine that needs to pass smog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dvlax28 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Okay here's the story...A few weeks ago, me and my dad pulled off the valve cover and looked around and fixed the valve gaps, and it is running a little better now. we changed the oil, put on a new filter, got a new fuel filter and fuel line and we rebuilt the carburetor. the only thing we worried about was if the jet size was too big, and now that we looked around and cleaned things up, new spark plugs and a shiny valve cover we are just trying to pass emissions. i doubt it will pass now, because the car still reeks. everytime i go for a ride, i come back smelling of exhaust...and not a subtle smell either, the car just reeks. so i think if it fails again the only thing to do is to jet the carb down. how can i get rid of the really stinky exhaust? i know its a 30 year old car, and once i seal up holes and put new weatherstripping i wont be able to smell it inside, but i need to get the smell down a little. any suggestions? and thanks a lot for the dizzy info, i'll have my dad read this later tonight and post something else. thanks in advance, Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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