The Revelation Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Ive been looking and i was wondering if you guys know of any place that sells alluminum engine blocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianZ Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 LOL yeah it's called a SR20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-Z Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Haha. I'll be nice. Nissan never made an l28 aluminum engine block. They were all (cast?, forged?) iron blocks. The only main piece of the engine that would be aluminum is the head/valve block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianZ Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Haha. I'll be nice. Nissan never made an l28 aluminum engine block. They were all (cast?' date=' forged?) iron blocks. The only main piece of the engine that would be aluminum is the head/valve block.[/quote'] cast very cast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted January 25, 2006 Administrators Share Posted January 25, 2006 I’ve been privy to some pretty neat and wild L-series engines. Even discussed and almost started a custom built/welded/machined aluminum L-28 block, but that project obviously never materialized as there are many other alternative power plants with Lots of “WOW†factor available for far less $$,$$$.$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 BRAAP, Can you enlighten us about these Ls? Maximum horsepower from an L6 and what bore/stroke/use would be nice. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted January 25, 2006 Administrators Share Posted January 25, 2006 BRAAP' date=' Can you enlighten us about these Ls? Maximum horsepower from an L6 and what bore/stroke/use would be nice. Dave[/quote'] Ok, here is the universal secret that most engine builders use to build MORE power when it comes to bore and stroke… Always build as big as the customer can afford!!! That is the secret!!! There is NO magic in one bore stroke/combo being “better†or “more advantageous†over another, until you reach the critical piston speed of a particular piston, of course. The longer stroke offers more leverage on the crank via a longer arm. The larger bore offers more piston surface area which also offers more leverage on the crank via surface area of the piston. My take is the larger bore allows another freebie in the way of more valve unshrouding, (i.e. more air flow), and also allows yet another freebie In the way of more RPM before critical piston speed is reached, (pistons WILL explode if this speed is exceeded), due to lower piston speeds from the shorter stroke, as compared to and engine of similar displacement but with a longer stroke/smaller bore combination. Now being as Horse power is a function of Torque over RPM, more RPM is always good for making more POWER!! If you don’t believe me, just take a look at sport bike engines, Indy car engines, or even F-1 engines. They are all very OVER square in design, i.e. their bores are considerably larger than the length of their strokes. They make decent torque for their given displacements, but they make really INCREDIBLE Horse Power for that same minuscule displacement, and what really counts, is those same vehicles accelerate like “AH MA GAWD!!!!!†Now isn’t that what we are really after? That “ah ma gawd†feeling when we mash the accelerator? Torque is what you “feel†in your back when you mash the accelerator pedal. The larger the displacement of the engine, typically, the more torque that will be produced. As an aside, the higher in the RPM range you keep all that torque, the more Horse Power you will produce. It is mathematical. Honestly, it is really THAT simple!!! Now what makes it NOT so simple is getting the engine to stay together at those dizzying RPMs and also being able to get a cam-shaft that will deliver that kind of power at those RPMs, but ALSO be emissions compliant, that is the real trick… I could go on and on, (most of you already know my ability to write novels about some seemingly very basic items), so I’ll spare you guys the details and just say this, build your engines with as much displacement as your wallet can afford! So there you have it… Which bore and stroke works best for you? First we need to know how fat is your wallet? Next is how much do want to abuse those pistons? After that, we can go from there… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Yep. Knew all that. I was wondering whats the most you have heard of. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Revelation Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 i was basically just wondering if anyone knew if mechine shops could mechine an alluminum block but im guessing that would be far past the boundaries of my pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfairladyz Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 i was basically just wondering if anyone knew if mechine shops could mechine an alluminum block but im guessing that would be far past the boundaries of my pocket. You could probably just as soon buy Schwarzenegers house for what a custom engine machined from a billet of aluminum would cost (sure thats a little overkill, but it gets the point across). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 The highest horsepower number I've ever heard of (and believe) on an L6 was 780hp on an Electramotive qualifying engine. The reason I believe it is that the Electramotive dyno engineer at the time is a guy I've raced and autocrossed with for years. What's funny is that Electramotive never claimed more the 600hp for their engines. True racers always understate horsepower claims, Dyno racers always overstate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Johnc.. im not sure if this is common knowledge or maybe you just know more then others about electramotives engines, but do you know the specs of that engine? or maybe something close that i can atleast base my build sheet after? im sure TimZ and other big shot L6 guys will be reaching close to 700hp levels and im sure they can share there specs but i never really heard much about electramotives. from what i was told and read was that they were Twin turbo, turbos were VERY far foward and that the exhaust manifolds they used wouldnt work on our stock bodied S30 Z's.. as Vinny on this site has there TT exhaust manifold and he said its one hell of a peice but wont work without some SERIOUS body mods... which im all for! lol. i plan on starting my L28 build for around 650+rwhp and just wanted to start figuring it all out so i know atleast where to start. plus im sure it does help but i want this thing to spin some serious rpms. im sure it will be PLENTY pricey but you have to pay to play. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 The way Devendorf and Knepp fit the twin-turbos in the engine bay was to lay the engine over on its side and make a bunch of custom stuff (like oil pans, etc.) This worked very well and was eventually banned by IMSA. After that they went with a single turbo setup and were able to get all the horsepower and reliability they wanted. I don't have any engine build details but I assume that with today's EMS someone should be able to duplicate or exceed those numbers. But, one of the huge problems Electramotive had was getting the power to the ground. 700hp doesn't mean squat if you can only use 450 because you're spinning the tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 very true about traction... im sure my Z would be faster at 500whp then at say 800whp, but i guess its just that "goal" i want to reach. more so for tuning and to see what i can do for my personal gradifaction. im all for building something so crazy that it will take years and years of just engineering to make that idea come a reality. also i dont plan on selling any of my cars so loosing money on the whole thing is fine, im already to far in on my on these cars that it would be pointless to even thinking about what i can get back from a sale. i would LOVE to see some pictures of there engine bay layouts, ive been searching but not with much luck. im trying to find a place that can do my headwork, i figure for a turbo motor (been doing my searching) ill start off with a N42 head and see what kind of flow numbers can be reached. from there i guess i have to get a cam made to make those numbers worth something in terms of making power. want to atleast reach around 8000rpms (mostly highway pulls) and make power from 3500 all the way to 8K. been searching and found alot of the FI guys like cliffton and TimZ to be very helpful with how there cars are setup. figure one big turbo should be more then enough, plus less clutter in the engine bay then say having two big turbos. would like to reach this goal on turbo only but i would mind using nitrous or some other type of gas/liquid power-adder to make even more Safe Power.... im sure race gas ALL the time will be needed and thats fine by me. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Mike, go buy the How to Modify book. Several pics of the engine in there. Looks like a long tube header, engine layed over, big huge heat shield, and the intake gained about 8-10 inches in length when they layed it over and it has a fairly huge plenum on it. I'm sure you could get more out of the pic than I can, since I'm not a turbo guy. Also there is something later on in the book about them using L24 rods, not surprising really as it's easy to do and gives a slightly better rod ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 BTW... Sunbelt has a built L28 turbo long block that Jim says is good to at least 650hp for sale. They want $8,500 for it assembled. I found an e-mail with some of the details: Head P90 ported and polished Stainless steel valves Bronze guides Sunbelt turbo cam and springs Turbo exhaust manifold ARP HSK Block F54 block ARP MSK Cunningham rods Coated rod bearings J E pistons coated top and sides Bronze drive gear Turbo oil filter housing Harmonic balancer Timing components Turbo Dist Displacement 2.962 The rods are extra long (easier on the bearings) and the pistons are extra short (lighter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 so far only pic i found of the engine was this.. http://zhome.com/History/Electramotive/DevTurb2.htm cant see much at all.. they could reach 140mph in a standing start 1/4th mile.. thats prettyyyyyy damn impressive for that time frame. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 BTW... Sunbelt has a built L28 turbo long block that Jim says is good to at least 650hp for sale. They want $8' date='500 for it assembled. I found an e-mail with some of the details: [b']Head[/b] P90 ported and polished Stainless steel valves Bronze guides Sunbelt turbo cam and springs Turbo exhaust manifold ARP HSK Block F54 block ARP MSK Cunningham rods Coated rod bearings J E pistons coated top and sides Bronze drive gear Turbo oil filter housing Harmonic balancer Timing components Turbo Dist Displacement 2.962 The rods are extra long (easier on the bearings) and the pistons are extra short (lighter). see i would do that but i sorta want to build it myself. i dont want to do the machining or port/head work as ill leave that up to the real pro's. but then again that buy might be a no brainer. i guess i just want to be able to say "i built that".. and have a smile on my face i do and would LOVE sunbelt to do all the machining and port work as i know they have ALOT of time dealing with L6's for many years (they did your engine right John...) i had that how to modify book but lost it, i guess ill go buy it on my way to work today. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Would anyone acctually be interested in an aluminum block for their L series? I have the casting equipment required to do it if there is interest. I havn't looked into it yet but the possibility for never before seen displacements, external webbing for added strength, and the obvious weight reduction would definately out perform any stock based engine. however, it all comes down to how much one would be willing to spend for a bit of extra performance Aluminum weighs about 40% of cast iron, I dont know how much an L series block weighs but the savings are pretty substantial. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.