510six Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Some pictures of my methanol injection setup using a single 160lb injector and a coolingmist Shurflo 90psi pump.The injector will be under controll of the secondary injector system in the AEM EMS.So alcohol injection will be variable according to boost.The T67 bb turbo is also shown in the pics the Tial 44mm wastegate and downpipe should be completed by the end of the week. http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sss510six/album?.dir=/f1ff BTW the other pics are of a Bonneville awd Galant with a Liquid/Air IC and a GT40 bb turbo.The setup has dyno`ed almost 600 whp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Hmmm.. Are you unconcerned that the alcohol mixture could potentially be sprayed everywhere by the BOV? I'm sure you can set it up with the AEM so it shouldn't, but its physically possible? Aside from that it looks damn nice. Lemme know if you need moral support during the first drive. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 The alcohol is only sprayed during boost and the BOV only opens during high vacuum.So everything should be OK, plus I know of several people running AEM with the same setup with no ill effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernardd Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Is that a nozzle or an injector? Any type of controller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zguy36 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I have my water injection spraying two feet AFTER my bov and I still get water coming out of the bov. I don't know how the water reverts back upstream, but it sure does. A little water underhood doesn't hurt, but fuel might start a fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayZee Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 That is a injector, Helix your concerns may have been valid in the case of a nozzle being used. I have noticed that nozzles continue to spray long after the pump is shut off. A injector however can stop spraying immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayZee Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I have my water injection spraying two feet AFTER my bov and I still get water coming out of the bov. I don't know how the water reverts back upstream, but it sure does. A little water underhood doesn't hurt, but fuel might start a fire. Ever consider venting your BOV back into your air intake? (assuming you have one and not just a filter) Anyway the unused spray would just get sucked into the engine during deceleration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 "In the olden times" injection was done at the inlet to the turbo, so that the heat of compression would cause a state change of the anti-detonant, taking heat out of the discharge airstream. In this case, unless the BOV had sufficient JT-Effect to cool the air to condenstaion point of the vaporized anti-detonant, it would stay in state and not drop out in liquid form. Methanol may give a vapor smell in that case. Water, simply made for humidity---the R/H raising causing a less dense air mix, but the cooling effect compensating for it somewhat... This was discussed previously I won't go into that here. As stated, routing the BOV back into the inlet of the turbine may not make for "the neat killer sound" but it can help prespin the impeller, and keep it up to speed for improved on-boost response---and eliminating the "external venting" issues of a flammable anti-detonant possibly being entrained in the discharge air. Even it only operates on-boost, there is a lag between injection start, injection stop, and anti-detonant/air mix travelling through the piping. The argument can be made that the anti-detonant/air mix will be discharged initially on lift-throttle because that air is boosted, and the injector should not have any appreciable on-boost lag before injection events commence. I don't know if that last one made any sense, but the air in the tubing that the BOV discharges should have anti-detonant in it, unless there is some threshold boost level where it isn't injecting. After that point, it will have anti-detonant in it. Which is a good argument for a recycled BOV line... Given the cutoff criteria for the injector, it is possible with the setup shown could give a fairly "clean" blowoff. It all depends on the sophistication of the controller and it's ability to shut off the injector at a boost level or rate of throttle position change so as to stop anti-detonant injecton BEFORE the BOV lifts it's seat. But with a vacuum-referenced BOV, that response time is lightining quick, any lift-throttle will cause it to vent pressure. My best take is that if you sampled closely you probably would find traces of anti-detonant in the discharged air unless the tuning of the Methanol Controller was very tightly controlled! I would question why there, and not at the inlet of the compressor as "in the olden times"---what's changed, or what is the advantage of doing it there, as opposed to the inlet of the compressor. Is this an "erosion of the compressor wheel" concern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted October 13, 2006 Author Share Posted October 13, 2006 The AEM will allow for very precise controll of both the methanol fuel pump (which will be set via an output to 1-2psi) and the injector which will start injecting at 5-6psi.Plus the output of the AEM EMS can be set with a TPS percentage, so that when the throttle is lifted the injection shuts off automatically.If worse comes to worse I can recirculate my HKS SSBOV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernardd Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 What kind/size/brand of injector are you using? Are you using a shurflo pump? (It looks like one) If it's a shurflo did you bypass the pressure switch up top for more psi? Tony: I think the compressor wheel erosion problem is the biggest concern for pre turbo injection. I've seen pics of wheels where water has been injected for several years and the wheel looks fine, and some where the wheel looks hammered after several months. Pre turbo is very cheap and easily done by a diy'er. I've vented to atmosphere for two summers with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayZee Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I've vented to atmosphere for two summers with no problems. Well there was that ONE little fire... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted October 13, 2006 Author Share Posted October 13, 2006 What kind/size/brand of injector are you using? Are you using a shurflo pump? (It looks like one) If it's a shurflo did you bypass the pressure switch up top for more psi? Tony: I think the compressor wheel erosion problem is the biggest concern for pre turbo injection. I've seen pics of wheels where water has been injected for several years and the wheel looks fine, and some where the wheel looks hammered after several months. Pre turbo is very cheap and easily done by a diy'er. I've vented to atmosphere for two summers with no problems. Bernard, the injector is a Bosch 160lb unit that is alcohol compatable .The Pump is a Shurflo unit set to 90psi ,a 20' piece of teflon lined -6 is used as the line /resevoir and all of the fittings are either brass nickle plated or ceramic coated inside.Also Klotz Uplon is used with the methanol as a lubricant and as a protection to the whole system from corrosion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Klotz? Now there is a name from the past! Next, let's fire up the Rupp, and go to the races! (I used Klotz in my Rupp 600 Nitro running methanol for hillclimbs and 100yd sprints!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 aem makes baby jesus cry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
510six Posted October 21, 2006 Author Share Posted October 21, 2006 AEM is not for the weak of mind or will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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