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Documentary of the Super Datsun resurrection


Bob_H

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Bob, how far off the bottom of the pan do you run your pickup?

John

 

 

1/4"

I was trying to make it as close as I could w/o putting it too close. I didn't really have much guidelines to go from,(for how far) so we took a 1/4" piece of aluminum and put it on the bottom of the pickup, then put the flat bottom of the sump on top of that and then tacked it in place, (and then removed the 1/4" piece of alum. stock used as a spacer). If you look closely at the mock-up pictures with the white cardboard, one shot which shows the pickup from the side/underneath the bottom of the sump,(has the elmers sticker) shows the approx. distance.

In the end, I still need approx. 1/2" of oil in the bottom of the sump because the tube running down into the "pickup" box sits just above the mesh screen by about 1/4" total at the highest point.

I'm still looking at some other options to lower the actual pickup down towards the mesh - such as extending the "tube" down to an angle flat with the mesh, taking up most of the remaining 1/4". Let me see if I can find a picture of the pickup itself...

I can't find one which shows what the tube inside the "box" of the pickup looks like. I still may re-design the pickup itself.

Sorry - long answer to your short question, but its still bothering me.

-Bob

To further muddy the waters, here is an article which talks about oil pans. In it, it references that all pickups in the test: "Pickupclearance on all three pans was 3/8 inch."

http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles/ctrp_0603_oil_pan_design_windage_tech/index.html

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, another boat detachment taking students out to the Aircraft carrier steals another week away.

Pulled the pan in this weekend to work on the baffle setup for the pickup. Required some time fabricating a brace to hold the oil pickup in the correct position so the baffle "walls" will be in the proper orientation to the pickup.

Anyways, attached are some pictures of the outer portion of the oil pan - a friend of mine did the welding.

The next set of pictures are of the inside - as you can see if you look at the joints - they are still rough. I will still have to smooth those out, then we'll weld where appropriate to ensure no leaks and a strong pan.

I'm still trying to do more research on the actual baffle design. I found some info here:

http://www.brazeauracing.com/oilpan.htm

Or rather that is the "rubber flaps" I'm strongly considering using.

They are used successfully in both M3's and in the RB26's,(Tomei utilizes them). If I use hinged plates,(trap doors) I want to procure commercially available ones but can't find any. I did contact this site and they can sell me the "balls" they use:

http://www.billetfab.com/pans.htm

 

If anyone has any pointers to baffle design or guidelines - I'm all ears! Once that is finalized, I'll make another cover with holes to help drain the oil, (and reduce foaming) which will go on top of the baffle but allow the pickup to go down in.

 

In other fronts, I cleaned all the individual suspension components and I now need to sandblast and paint,(the parts cleaner took off some of the paint).

Last, I have a few bearings which need to be replaced and one of the two rear tokiko struts was toast - minimal compression damping, so that needs to be replaced. I'll have to check the fronts.

Moving along, moving along....

oil pan final_thumb.jpg

oil pan final1_thumb.jpg

oil pan final2_thumb.jpg

oil baffle mockup_thumb.jpg

oil baffle mockup1_thumb.jpg

oil baffle mockup2_thumb.jpg

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  • 2 months later...

I found something today concerning the distance to put the oil-pan pickup. I wanted to post it here to keep this for posterity.

BTW, no progress on the car besides stripping the paint from the suspension.

I bought a 94 RX-7 with an LS1 to replace my BMW as my daily driver. Trying to sell the BMW, my 93 RX-7, etc... Oh yea, 12+ hour work days.. :) I do love my job though.

 

 

Post:

 

I would be concerned about locating the oil pickup that close to the bottom of the pan. On p. 147 of his book, Lingenfleter recommends following the oil pump manufacturers guidelines of 3/8” to ½”. To quote, “A pickup placed too close to the bottom of the pan restricts the pickup and could cause oil pressure problems at high rpm”.

 

I spoke with the owner of Canton after buying their LT1 pan in 2001, because they offered multiple depth pickups. I especially wanted his opinion because he was familiar with the needs of road racers and I figured that Lingenfelter's engines were MAINLY used for straight line performance (Lingenfelter uses a dry sump set up for their ASA LS1 engines). The owner said that I could use slightly less than 3/8”, but that he considered 3/8” close to the minimum, even for road racing, for the same reason that Lingenfelter did - too much oil restriction at high rpm.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 8 months later...

Thanks for the compliment.

My Datsun has been languishing under a car cover in the garage for the past 6 months. I flew 55 hours last month - remember that is 0.9-1.3hrs at a time, so around 45 flights in 20-24 work days. I'm hoping to get back to things again next year,(February). I'm gone in Jan - so Feb should be a good starting point.

 

I didn't realize its been since March that I posted in this thread.... What a crazy year.

Again, anyone in the Corpus area - shoot me a PM or e-mail and I'll gladly share some time for you to see the car and poke fun at how long its taking me.

-Bob

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Some of the nicest stringer beads ive seen layed down. Being a student of welding (trying to get my associates degree in it) but also certified in a few processes (GTAW being my preferred) makes me really enjoy looking at other peoples work.

 

The car is absolutely breathtaking. Truely a work of art, you should be proud and I know you are.

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  • 3 months later...
I spoke with the owner of Canton after buying their LT1 pan in 2001, because they offered multiple depth pickups. I especially wanted his opinion because he was familiar with the needs of road racers and I figured that Lingenfelter's engines were MAINLY used for straight line performance (Lingenfelter uses a dry sump set up for their ASA LS1 engines). The owner said that I could use slightly less than 3/8â€, but that he considered 3/8†close to the minimum, even for road racing, for the same reason that Lingenfelter did - too much oil restriction at high rpm.

 

I just saw the pan for the first time and I'll admit, aside from the beautifully welded together pieces, And it looks like there are a lot of them!... the only thing that concerned me is the distance from the floor of the pan. Oil pan dipsticks never hit the bottom so when it says it's low on oil that means it's a litre or under 'spec'... so I don't see the need to go super close to the pan. If you get to the point where you're that close to the bottom in oil level, I think your engine may have another problem...

 

Have you made a modification to it since, or did you keep it at that height? Those high flow oil pumps can cause voids in that little space at high rpm, and I'm not sure whether those can lead to pump cavitation... something to be look into... but I've never built an oil pan so I'm not sure if I'm even making sense.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, I continue to be as busy as I can - this year is crazy, we were way behind on student aviator production and as the Asst ops officer, I keep things running in addition to my flying 40+ sorties a month.

I haven't touched the car. I'm actually selling my V8 RX-7 swap because I found one w/o a sunroof and want to turn that into my daily driver - so that has taken some time up. I also recently met a really neat 85 year old WWII and Korean war Corsair pilot I've been spending a lot of time with - what an incredible guy. He's got some stories! I've been helping him with his older single engine plane w/some maint. and flying him occasionally since his medical is no longer any good.

I wish I could say when I'll be working on this again - but I honestly don't know. I've been doing my best to pare down my cars and projects - I was up at 10 cars, I'm now down to 6 - with the Datsun and my RX-7 being the only two "projects". The rest are drivers or stored at my parents for a long term project, (including the original 240z I bought way back when and wrote the Datsun Workshop about).

 

To answer the questions - yes, the pickup will be raised, its waay too low now that I've seen more info - I had no info when I built it despite looking all over the place. I'm not quite sure how I'll do it - I'd like to raise the pickup, not increase the sump size.

The dipstick will be a custom setup after I determine sump capacity, baffle design, etc.., but I understand your point - and that is not why it was put that close - I went off how close the stock RB pickup point was - but its a weird design - so it turns out I was off a little in how I measured.

The only progress I've had is all the suspension parts that were pulled have since been powdercoated black - and I vowed not to touch the car until my daily driver was completed and the other one sold. When I spread myself over two or three projects, they take forever.....(sound familiar to anyone?).

-Bob

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...
  • 2 months later...

Well, it took me getting out of the Navy to have time to work on this again. I'm starting back full force tomorrow. Engine is being re-assembled, suspension is already powdercoated, now being tapped again,(some crap in the threads), and new bearings installed and everythings going back on.

May not have pictures immediately, but I'll tell you I'm excited to finally get moving on this again. I'll get the engine assembled and back in, the suspension assembled and back on,(brakes/rims,etc.), and then I'll stop - I will switch to a different project,(RX-7 w/LS2 swap), finish it, then come back to this around christmas to get running.

This has been the longest project I've stalled on - I'm ready to get it going after three years in my possession after paint was done.

-Bob

PS-I'll eventually be selling my original oil pan, and maybe my older engine mounts - I'll post up here when I do.

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Thank goodness I had taken pictures of the suspension when I pulled it - trying to figure out what adjusters go where, sway brackets, bushings, etc.. - what a pain! It took me two solid nights working to file off the extra powdercoating,(they put it on super thick - two primer coats, three main!), tapping out all the threads,(that was the longest and the most painful - my palms are still sore!)

Its nice to see the progress. I did some $$ reality check on what I needed for the engine re-assembly, that will have to wait until I finish my RX-7 LS2 swap. Just can't drop another $2k+ right now.

But it moves along....

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  • 2 weeks later...

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