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P90A head ticking what to do?


cygnusx1

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Continuing on:

 

I picked up a gallon can of chem dip parts cleaner and will disassemble and soak all the lifters tonight.

 

Part two of disassembly.

Pictures should speak for themselves. Hint use the back end of a Sharpie to pull out the bottom lifter piston. Pull VERY slowly and twist after you cram the sharpie into the piston.

 

108750096-M.jpg

 

108750100-M.jpg

 

108750088-M.jpg

 

 

I roughly measured about 0.0005" clearance between the body and the piston.

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Thanks, actually it's a pretty run-of-the-mill Olympus camera that we use at work. It's a beater cam. The trick is Photoshop.

 

I didn't have time yesterday to take the rest of the lifters out and soak them. I am hoping to do that tonight and put it back together by the end of the week.

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Update:

 

The lifters were full of a thick black gooey sludge.

 

I soaked all the disassembled lifters one at a time in GUNK carb cleaner dip. The stuff is amazing. 20 minutes and they wiped clean to bare metal. Next I dunked the parts in 10W-30, wiped them, and assembled them. After I did all of them, I installed them basically "empty". I cranked the starter with no injection for about 1 minute. Then I started the engine and they ticked pretty loudly. After about 5 seconds, they got quieter but not nearly as quiet as they should be. They sounded more like a solid lifter with too much clearance. I shut it down after 2 minutes of idle and took them all out again. I had at least 70psi oil pressure showing.

 

This time, I am going to assemble them while totally submerged in 10W-30 so that they are full of oil when installed. Fingers crossed.

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Good news and procedure I used for installing the lifters.

 

Well, I learned that you don't install the lifters without filling them up with oil first. After I cleaned them and installed them semi-dry, they ticked like a sewing machine and wouldn't pump up after a few minutes at idle. I didn't feel comfortable letting the engine run like that so I decided to try another approach.

 

1) With the lifters completely disassembled and clean, dunk the parts in a pot of clean motor oil. (dont mix lifter parts).

2) Reach in the pot and get all the air our of the parts by kickin them around.

3) Assemble them completely submerged in oil, leaving off the retainer cap. (use pin punch to push the inner ball check open to get cylinder down the bore).

4) Take the assembled lifter out of the pot and hold it in a vice threads down. (aluminum jaws in the vice please!!)

5) Place the cap on carefully level, and tap it on with a socket and SMALL hammer and LIGHT taps. It will not go on all the way yet.

6)Once the cap is in place you should not be able to twist it by hand.

7)Compress the lifter in the vice very slowly and work the cap on with your fingers until it just snaps into place and rotates freely by hand.

8)Install the lifter in the car. Tighten to 30-35ft lb...not more.

 

NOTE: When i started the car there was little or no compression because the lifters needed to sink down to their operating level. I hooked up a battery charger, disabled the ignition and cranked for 20 seconds at a time. After about 2 minutes, I could hear the compression coming back so I enabled the ignition. It fired up and idled rough with little vacuum for about 1-2 minutes. I could see as the idle started to smooth out, the vacuum climbed steadily to 19in. This was an indication that the lifters were "finding" their correct positions. I took it for a drive and it feels like it has at least 25 more HP and 25 more foot pounds. I found myself thinking of getting wider rear tires as the rear end started getting loose in 3rd gear at 55mph!

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I took it for a drive and it feels like it has at least 25 more HP and 25 more foot pounds. I found myself thinking of getting wider rear tires as the rear end started getting loose in 3rd gear at 55mph!

 

It is cold outside! Duh! Cold tires + Cold ground = No Traction :-)

 

 

Glad to see you fixed your problem with such a simple approach. How long does it take to reassemble each lifter? Side note -> Jr's motor is out! LoL pics coming soon

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  • 4 weeks later...

Alrighty...

 

I went ahead and purchased the parts needed for the solid lifter conversion. I purchased the time-sert inserts.. and a spare P90 and I used the solid lifters.

 

I soon found out.. after starting the engine up... that it sounded like a freakn diesal.. and yes everything was adjusted properly to spec.. hot and cold.

 

Well here is one thing NO one ever mentioned about the solid lifter conversion. The hydraulic camshaft has a different shaped cam lobe.. and is designed to smoothly ramp up on the hydraulic lifters.

 

When you use the solid lifters on the hydraulic camshaft.. the hydraulic camshaft "slaps" the rocker arm.. which creates noise and wearing of the rocker arms and camshaft lobe.. maybe more. (Thanks BRAAP for the info)

 

This means you MUST use the solid lifters as well as the solid camshaft! MUST!!!

 

 

But here are the pictures of the solid lifter conversion.. which is now deemed a complete and total waste UNLESS you convert to a solid camshaft..

 

34619024396.jpg

34619024483.jpg

34619024429.jpg

 

This is a picture of a P90 SOLID head..

34619024513.jpg

 

Hydraulic lifter on the left.. Solid on the right with the insert

34619024557.jpg

34619024617.jpg

 

This is a picture of the HYDRAULIC P90a head.. notice the countersink in the lifter threading? This is why you need the insert.. in addition to the diff diameter in the lifters.

34619024621.jpg

34619024737.jpg

 

 

 

I went ahead and grabbed my old hydraulic lifters.. and bought 4 little plastic tubs from Home Depot for $3.00.

-1 tub was the disassembly tub and i drained all the oil in there

-1 tub was filled with Toulene and i washed the parts for a few minutes

-1 tub was also filled with Toulene but was the "clean" tub to remove any excess oil/gunk and was free from contaminants.

-1 tub was full of Automatic transmission fluid

 

I then assembled the hydraulic lifter under the ATF since it is a detergant, but is still able to lubricate the lifter so I dont have a dry start.

 

(one note.. when you full the lifter up with oil, and drop the spring in, you can not push in the piston with the ball and spring built in. I used a small screwdriver to push the ball down onto the spring, which allowed the ATF to flow through the piston which allows the lifter pivot thing to slide down all the way)

 

I started the car up.. it ticked for a few minutes and then stopped.

 

Overall this was not the way I had hopped.. but I was able to fix the ticking problem and I learned that you CAN NOT simply switch the lifters.

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Just wondering if the solid lifter completely covers up the little oil hole for the hydraulic lifter. I know you can't really watch it run to see if oil is coming out, but I wonder if that would be an issue as well.

 

Also, you could run your old N47 'A' cam in the P90a with the solids while your waiting to get an upgraded cam. I tried it recently, It works pretty good with the stock turbo. Gave me about 500 or so more RPM on the top end over the P90 cam.

 

Aaron

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It has been a while since I "rebuilt" my hydraulic rocker posts. After sitting for weeks at a time, the car fires right up much stronger than it ever did. They never tick anymore and I still swear it has more torque and power since the "rebuild".

 

Proxlamus, so you went back to hydraulic? I have no qualms about my hydraulic setup.

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  • 3 weeks later...

PrOzLaMus,

How did you line the oil feed up with the gallery? Mine won't line up (or doesn't it matter) I dissassembled, cleaned, and filled mine with oil, they stayed pumped up for about 1 minute. It's almost like they are not getting supplied oil, because when I loosen it the plunger pops back up like a cork, and prior to loosening the piston is free-wheeling.

What's the proper torque spec for these, I think I'm putting them in too tight.

The engine was missing on #2 prior to me doing this job, now it's missing on #3. I put all the lifters and rockers back where they came out.

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Never mind, I finally found the torque spec.

For the information of all here don't overtorque these things. It's been mentioned that they will bind but nobody gave a torque spec, my dad came to the rescue, found a manual laying around back in Pennsylvania and called me. It's only natural to assume that since it's a huge 24mm bolt head on the lifter that you tighten the bloody piss out of them. So, if your lifters are ticking, do try this install procedure. (The spec is only 30-35ft.lb.!)

After cleaning them per this thread, clean the threads in the head, then oil the lifter threads and screw them in by hand till they bottom. Then turn it an additional 1/8 turn if U dont have a torque wrench. They don't need to be any tighter than that, as they WILL bind and cause you a headache.

 

The sheer size of these things is good because they most likely will be WAY overtight (I had to break mine loose with a breaker bar and a pipe!) but the threads in the head weren't damaged since they're so massive.

 

After I reinstalled them, handtight plus 1/8 turn, I started the car, and had to keep my foot on the gas to keep her running because they had pumped up so much. After 10 minutes the car was running perfectly and quiet too.

I let it sit for 2 hours and started her up and she didn't even tick for a second!

Lots of power too. Nearly no turbo lag and even at 6psi it throws you in the seat in each gear.

I hope this helps somebody, since I had so much trouble finding correct torque settings.

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proxlamus,

Yes, I am keeping the hydraulics. Now that they're working right I like them a lot. I am willing to guess that most all the problems with them are because they're too TIGHT as well as too dirty. (I wonder how many people torque them to the spec for the solids...55-84ft-lb)

They really only need to be snugged down, I'm sure thats the reason nissan made them that big in the first place (since bigger threads w/ bigger surface area will hold more forces with less torque)

30-35ft lb should do it.

Thx for the reply though

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Well, I'm glad someone else was able to corroborate my experience. I really found more power after "cleaning" the hydraulics. I thought maybe it was just psychological but it really feels better, and starts up better.

 

I am going to add your torque info to my list above. Thanks.

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