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Autox suspension/slicks discussion - FP


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Hey again. Hopefully this isn't too many topics for one thread. If so, I'd be happy to repost separately...

 

Well, I'm at another turning point. I've been toying between SM2 and FP for some time now, and I'm going FP for a few reasons. FP's pax expects less than SM2, you can run true slicks (therefore is much more fun), but most of all...the whole point is to go all out and have fun. I'm not ever going to nationals with this car...I couldn't ever cut my car or gut the interior. And something is addictively appealing with being the only Prepared car that comes out of an enclosed trailer, dust cover comes off, and a shiny and clean classic rolls out [in my regions, anyway]. My car is hardly ever driven on the street anymore...it's garaged and carried most of the time and only drinks 100 octane. I'd rather go all out. Almost. Confused? Me too. Haha.

 

So. FP is a whole new world, and I know this. I also recognize that I have no clue what I'm getting into, just that I know I want to only do it once, the right way. Hah, ignorant already, right? Here's my best shot at getting my learn on...

 

Trying to not annoy senior members and appear like such a newbie, I've been consulting the search engine for hours. I fully admit that I don't understand enough about suspension to be able to apply or sometimes even follow what I've been reading.

 

Currently, my suspension is very simple. Plain coilovers (illuminas, 200 fr / 225 rear), upgraded sway bars, poly bushings, triangular front and rear strut braces, quick steering knuckles. That's it.

 

[sidenote: along the way, i googled 'bump steer' because i wasn't following some of the discussion, and the #2 hit was a bump steer thread by jmortensen. very, very nice thread, jon. thanks!] i don't remember off-hand if i did install bump-steer spacers, so i took a look. are they about 1" thick? if so, looks like i've got em...but my control arms are parallel to the ground. is that bad? i did lower the car a few times over the course of last season, but the front end hooks up a lot better now that it's lower. is that for CG reasons or geometry reasons?

 

From my limited autox experience (15-20 events or so) I realize that my next purchase is a set of camber plates for the front (and for the rear too I assume?). I'm leaning toward...

 

these camber kits:

http://www.technotoytuning.com/products/camber_plates.html

 

with these coilover plates:

http://www.technotoytuning.com/products/upper_hat.html

 

...but the camber plate sticky seems incomplete on the techno toy products. are they weld in or not? easier question: if i get camber plates, do i absolutely have to do some welding to truly utilize full adjustment? i'm willing to weld non-cosmetic areas...

 

any comments on these? i'd rather not weld if i don't have to, and these seem to be among the better engineered.... any other recommendations? ground control seems to be my next best bet.

 

My street tires only have about 1-2 events left, so slicks are also next. In my searching, I've come across several discussions regarding compound, construction, wheel diameters, etc. I searched Tire Rack - no true slicks, and I checked out Hoosier.com. I don't know what I'm looking for so, of course I didn't find anything. I absolutely cannot go smaller than 16" diameter (front brakes are *barely* cleared by my 16" rims), and my current rims are 7.5" in width. I'm willing to curl my fenders under, but no more than that. I realize that I'm severely limiting my tire selection, but this is what I've got. Any recommendations? What type of tire/compound do the FP racers recommend given my restrictions? i've read several compound numbers...are numbers specific to brand names? what can i fit? i currently run 225/50R16 street tires all the way around, and i assume a similarly sized slick is what i want. but the numbers are now in inches...bastards!

 

also, i'd like to gain experience driving slicks and i'd like to select tires that will help me tune my suspension mods. if that means i should get a certain type of slick construction/compound before going to the final, all-out sticky slick, then what would that be? i'm more interested in investing in the driver and car's future times than this season's times.

 

I've read that slicks find weak links in a hurry and will tear them up. What are the typical weak links?

 

As for drivetrain, I've got a 4.37 R180 with a Quaiffe in it. I very much want to do a CV conversion, but all the guidance and kits seem to be for R200s. I have broken two u-joints (and consequently 2 ring gear teeth), but that was from my own misuse, and I've learned my lessons. And that I want CVs. I realize that drivetrain has it's own thread section, but what I don't know is what the relationship between suspension and drivetrain is with slicks and less-streetable suspension...if any.

 

About the brakes, they are RossC's eXtreme brake kit (MML). I lock up my front tires all the time while autoxing, but don't know enough about tuning to know what to blame. It is often the driver, yes, but I've learned to finesse them, and recognize now that something isn't right...it's TOO easy to lock em up, and I don't even have much hydraulic assist, even with a vacuum reservoir. I suspect the front/rear proportioning valve, but not really sure. Any experience racing with these brakes? And yeah, new tires will help...

 

Also, there are several suspension terms and setups that I simply don't understand. I'm pretty sure I eventually want to do all of the below, but don't know where to begin. From my searches:

 

"steering arm clearance" -- not sure what this is referring to, whether vertical or horizontal, let alone what the clearance is from/to or why i need it or don't want it. seems important though. hah. man want steak, but don't know if it grow on tree or found in sea. lmao.

 

"low friction mounts" -- previously mentioned to me in one of my past inquiries, and although i have an idea of what it is, i have no idea how to go about purchasing parts to install/fabricate such mounts, let alone what parts of the suspension should have them. stuff that moves. got it. hah.

 

"bolt-in subframes are now legal [in SM2] and that means you can relocate all the suspension pickup points and make the arms longer" -- no clue what a bolt-in subframe is or what arms I want longer or why. control arms? is this for better geometry for the whole bump steer thing? i don't get it.

 

"ackerman steering" -- mentioned several times in this site. google came up with this article: http://www.auto-ware.com/setup/ack_rac.htm ...which concludes the effects are negligible with slicks. however, autox does have some small radius turns relative to the rest of the racing world. thoughts?

 

"tension control tie rods" -- came across a thread that referenced these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Datsun-240Z-260Z-280Z-Tension-Control-Tie-TC-Rods_W0QQitemZ8020492141QQcategoryZ42609QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

but they were strongly recommended against by johnc and jon mortensen. i got the impression that the negative opinion was the brand, not necessarily the type of part or concept. is this type of thing covered by my other questions or is this something separate? AZC parts ok?

 

"control arms" -- looks like some tuneability and weight savings can be gained here. i at least know what a control arm is...haha. The ArizonaZCar kits [ http://www.arizonazcar.com/lowarms.html ] appear to have what I am assuming to be "low friction mounts," or they at least look like what I imagine them to be, anyway. Am I in the ballpark? This type of upgrade (ie a kit) is the kind of thing I'm more comfortable with...I'm not trying to re-invent the wheel and fabricate my own unique suspension, just realize more of the car's potential. Pretty much everything on that page looks like the direction I *think* I want to go, but have absolutely no clue as to how these parts are in practice, etc. Any experience? What about the MML parts?

 

and after all of these questions, i still have one more. i recognize that many of these parts affect geometry, and therefore should be done at the same time. which parts are they? i won't be able to do everything at once, probably just camber plates and slicks for the time being...

 

 

Man, this was way too much for one thread, I fear. My apologies and gratitude in advance. Thanks guys.

 

 

And to clear up my intentions, yes I want a true race car. A true race car that doesn't look like one...I want it to look like the classic Datsun created. And no, I haven't found a wife yet, either. Evidently she doesn't exist either. Haha.

 

Thanks guys.

 

-Mark

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Jesus... no stone left unturned in this thread!!!

 

First off, I ran a "semi-FP" car like you're planning for about 5 years. I don't mean that in a rude way, but full interior and no flares and streetable spring rates really isn't doing it all the way. What I found was that my car had too much roll and the chassis wasn't stiff enough to really make the slicks work well. Don't get me wrong, it will still be fun to drive and all that, but it isn't going to really compete with a full on FP car.

 

I WOULD STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT YOU GET OVER IT AND HACK UP THE FENDERS AND STRIP THE INTERIOR. I fought that inclination for a long time and have finally given in, and the freedom that comes with commiting the car to racing is really nice, especially when you get into some of your other questions (tires, ackerman, etc). Half assing it just doesn't cut it. You'll always be wondering how good you would have done had you not been carting around 300 extra lbs and running stock fenders. You have a very pretty car. You might consider getting a second one that you can cut and hack and don't need to fuss over, and keep the red one just the way it is.

 

As to the camber plates, they should be fine. You should get them front and rear. If you don't already have camber plates they'll lower the car ~1.25" or so. The TTT units are weld in. If you want something that you don't have to cut to install, the EMI biscuit type will bolt in (I'd suggest the TTT or Ground Control style). Also by the looks of your sig pic I'd say your strut tower bar won't fit with the camber plates, so you'll have to do some modification there.

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=105666

 

For tires there is a Goodyear radial FA slick which is a 23x9.5x15 I think. It comes in a R070 compound and R160 compound. R160 is a pretty soft roadracing compound. The R070 should be STICKY! http://www.rogerkrausracing.com/Goodyear/GY1.shtml#FA%20RADIAL

There should be other Formula Atlantic tires from other manufacturers, but supposedly Goodyear has the fastest tire right now.

 

If there is a weakness in your setup its probably going to be spinning the inside tire and shock loading the stub axle when you get traction. I would expect that would be your first drivetrain failure.

 

On the brakes you can try an adjustable proportioning valve in the rear, turn the rear brakes all the way up, and then if you still aren't getting much rear brake you can go to dual master cylinders and change the size of the master for the front or rear brakes individually. Smaller master = more pressure and more pedal throw.

 

Steering arm clearance probably refers to the knuckle to rotor clearance. I know Richard (260DET) cut and rewelded his steering arms for Ackerman and that was a concern. Speaking of Ackerman, you should search and read up on it. It is going to be a relatively minor thing, and you can get most of the same effect just by running a bunch of toe out in the front. It's tough to work into a front steer setup like the Z has. You either have to modify the steering arms or move the rack back in relation to the crossmember. I moved the rack back, 260DET cut and rewelded the arms, so both methods have been detailed.

 

Bolt in subframes... This would be a bolt in subframe connector. Search for subframe connector and you'll see many different types. Most people make them from 3x1 or 3x2 tubing, but Bad Dog offers a U channel setup. You could do the Bad Dog ones as a bolt in, but it would be a hell of a lot of bolts. If you manned up and decided to go full race you could just weld them in... :wink:

 

Tension control tie rods: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=107794

I'm sorry if I ever gave the impression that I don't like the TTT rods. I think they're not the IDEAL solution, but I think the ability to adjust caster is a huge advantage and they provide just one method of doing that. The downside to them is that they relocate the pivot forward, making the TC rod shorter, which makes the arc that it travels more drastic. I went to great lengths to make mine adjustable and keep the pivot in the correct spot. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=106974

 

Control arms: Not much weight savings to be had here. The stock arms just don't weigh much. You can modify your own arms or buy someone else's, but the key is that you want it to be as frictionless as possible, which means rod ends or monoballs or some combo thereof.

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=106457

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=105596

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A true race car is one where you wear a helmet every time you drive it. Once you get to that point in your mind (and intended car usage) its time to start cutting it up. Sounds like you're not there yet, so little steps are in order.

 

Save the LCAs, TC rods, CVs, subframe connectors, etc. for when you finally make the race car commitment. Camber plates and shocks are your first change. Since you're adverse to cutting up the car right now, the EMI Racing camber plates are really you're only choice. They will also work later during hacking mode. For shocks go with at least the Koni 8610s or, to save some money in the long run, step up to the 8611 doubles. You can also bump up your spring rates with these shocks into the high 200s, very low 300s.

 

Unfortunately there really aren't any slicks that will work on a 7.5" wide rim(including your FA slick). Even thought the FA slicks are designed for a car with a lot of aero loading, they will have trouble handling the expected weight of your car and the roll camber gain from the front suspension. Also, until you get really serious with the suspension on your car, it won't be able to handle the lateral loads thrown at it by the slicks. Save the slicks for the race car thing. I would run a 17" x 7.5" wheel and use the Hoosier A6 or Kumho V710 in a 225/40-17 size.

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Unfortunately there really aren't any slicks that will work on a 7.5" wide rim(including your FA slick). Even thought the FA slicks are designed for a car with a lot of aero loading, they will have trouble handling the expected weight of your car and the roll camber gain from the front suspension. Also, until you get really serious with the suspension on your car, it won't be able to handle the lateral loads thrown at it by the slicks. Save the slicks for the race car thing. I would run a 17" x 7.5" wheel and use the Hoosier A6 or Kumho V710 in a 225/40-17 size.

The wheels he already has are 7.5, but you can squeeze a 9" rim under a stock fender. Especially after looking at Clifton's recent pictures where his 275's were obviously rubbing the inner fender badly I would recommend more than an 8.5 or so, but I did run the Yokohama slick that is the equivalent to that Goodyear on an 8" rim for years. It wasn't "right" that's for sure, but it did work a lot better than some R compound 205/55/14's that I had tried previous to that. Also Tom Holt runs a rear slick which is an 11.5" wide tire on a 10" rim, so it can be made to work. I'd rather see that 11.5" slick on a 12" rim than a 10", but I think if the 9.5" tire would work better Tom would probably be running it...

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Oh, I thought he was sticking with the 7.5" wide wheel. I tried a set of custom Monocoque 16 x 9s with Hoosier 245/40-16s and it wouldn't work on my 1970 with 10" or 8" coil springs unless I jacked the ride height up to get the spring perch out of the way. In many cases, Hoosier, Kumho, Goodyear, etc. specify a tire size that is smaller then its actual size. If you talk with Jeff Speer at Hoosier they recommend a 9" wide wheel for their 245 S06s even though the fitment chart says 8".

 

We just switched a customer from 10" wide to 10.5" wide wheels for a the 285/30-18 Kumho V710s. In back to back testing Saturday he picked up .15 at an autocross. While its possible to make a wider tire work on a narrow rim (Carter Thompson ran the 285/30-18s on an 8" wide wheel) its something you really only do if you're budget or rules limited.

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Well, lets think about the construction of a tyre sidewall (something I know very little about, so make of this what you will).

 

A tyre sidewall is essentially rubber. Rubber is quite deformable, and will return to its original shape after compression distortion. For this example, I am supposing that it is much easier to compressively distort a sidewall than it is to do so in tension. That is, its easier to squish, than it is to stretch. I am lead to this conclusion because in compression it can fold on itself. (The deeper question here is whether the multiple tension/compressions that occur at each fold are greater than the overall tension). But anyway, lets assume that this is so.

 

If you have a tyre that is exactly as wide as the rim, at the point that is being support (the bead I believe), then in a simplistic view, each sidewall will make a right angle (inside the tyre) at the join with the tread.

 

If the tyre is wider, you will have an angle less than 90 degrees, if narrower, greater than 90 degrees. (See first attachment).

 

Just to clarify, when a tyre exerts a cornering force on the rim, the following occurs (I think):

 

The outside sidewall goes into tension, the inside sidewall goes into compression. That is, the tyre is moving in the direction it wants the car to go, and moving to this side relative to the rim.

 

Now lets relate this back to our supposition, and consider only two extreme cases: (See second and third attachments)

 

1. wide rim/skinny tyre.

2. skinny rim/wide tyre.

 

Case 1. The tyre is skinnier than the rim, the inside angle between sidewall/tyre is greater than 90.

 

In this case both the sidewalls are always in tension (its further along the hypotenuse of a triangle than it is along one side - will draw a picture if this isn't clear). As soon as the tread moves to laterally accelerate the car, the tension force on the outside tread increases, whilst the inside tread sees a decrease. This immediate increase accelerates the car with little relative movement between tyre/rim (much movement would simply pull the tyre off the rim, once again, assuming stiff tension elasticity of the sidewall).

 

 

Case 2. The tyre is wider than the rim, the inside angle between sidewall/tyre is less than 90.

 

In this case both sidewalls are also already in tension. But this tension's horizontal component is in the opposite lateral direction to case 1.

 

When the tread starts to exert a lateral force, the outside sidewall has to go into tension. To get there its current tension force relaxes as the inside angle approaches 90 degrees, then increases as it gets greater than 90 degrees.

 

It is obvious that it takes time for this transition from inwards-facing tension, through no tension, to outwards-facing tension to occur.

 

 

The only question in my mind is how come the inside sidewall in Case 2, that is, already in tension, doesn't make these two scenarios identical. As I suppose in the third attachment, perhaps the inside sidewall starts to pivot about the tyre/rim attachment which causes tread deformation and a loss of grip.

 

Lots of supposition, lots of writing, no answers. As per usual.

 

Dave

 

 

PS. This also shows why wider tyres on a skinnier rim can work well for drag applications: Due to the sidewalls already being in tension, any compression of the suspension reduces this tensile load on the sidewall. So in essence, the sidewall is acting as a negative rate spring. That is, it wants to go into compression (as a reaction to the constant tension force). This makes the rear suspenion that much softer.

tyres_thumb.jpg

tyre-forces-static_thumb.jpg

tyre-forces-corner_thumb.jpg

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There is trend here in Oregon of using the Formula Atlantic tires for F prepared Z cars. The rears are 13” wide, fronts are 10” wide. As for the chassis setup, , Tube80Z, Rontyler, JohnC JMortensen etc all have invaluable info to share, so PAY close attention when they write. These guys are not only fast drivers, but also are quite knowledgeable on what does and does not work in regards to the S-30 chassis at the level you are planning to build to.

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I WOULD STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT YOU GET OVER IT AND HACK UP THE FENDERS AND STRIP THE INTERIOR. I fought that inclination for a long time and have finally given in, and the freedom that comes with commiting the car to racing is really nice, especially when you get into some of your other questions (tires, ackerman, etc). Half assing it just doesn't cut it. You'll always be wondering how good you would have done had you not been carting around 300 extra lbs and running stock fenders. You have a very pretty car. You might consider getting a second one that you can cut and hack and don't need to fuss over, and keep the red one just the way it is.

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=105596

 

I agree with Jon, either start stripping the car you have, or find another one that you can dedicate to race only. I got to that point with my turbo 240Z where I was doing 8-10 time trial events a year with it, and it was really taking its toll.

 

I decided to build a track-only car, primarily so I didn't have to worry about getting it home after each event (trailer). It's the supercharged BRE schemed car in my sig. It's looks great from 25 feet or so, but up close, it is a little scarey.

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Half assing it just doesn't cut it. You'll always be wondering how good you would have done had you not been carting around 300 extra lbs and running stock fenders. You have a very pretty car. You might consider getting a second one that you can cut and hack and don't need to fuss over, and keep the red one just the way it is.

 

Sigh, truth hurts... I very much appreciate your [and everyone else's] candor.

 

So. I've concluded that, at this point in time [as john coffey so subtly points out that *one day* this will change, haha] I'm not willing to cut this car. It's my baby, something that everyone on here can relate to. I'd rather sell it as is to someone who will appreciate it than cut it.

 

That said, I'm not selling it, either. I do like the idea of getting another chassis to go "all out" on and have a true, dedicated racer. That would be several years down the road.

 

In the meantime, I still have some aspects of the car that can be improved on, even though I won't chop it up and gut it.

 

I ask those of you who have been where I am (stuck between street modified and prepared) what, given what I won't do, would you recommend for me to do? PAX-wise I'm better of staying in FP, especially since I'll get to use stickier tires, but if I stay SM2 I'll actually have some cars to chase. What does all of your 20/20 hindsight advise me to do? Please, I'll take as many opinions as I can get.

 

JohnC seems to feel strongly that my frame can handle DOT slicks, but radials (or cantilever?) would be asking too much. Is that because those tires NEED higher spring rates, which my car (both my struts and my chassis) can't handle? Am I understanding that aspect at least? What if I just have street-sized slicks (ie ones that can fit under stock fenders)?

 

As far as all the above and beyond suspension mods that are geared more toward cars with cut fenders and higher spring rates, here's my train of thought: if I don't have as big a contact patch, I might as well have as freely moving suspension as possible to make up for my lack up grip and at least have more finesse/control. I can still have a lot of fun in FP even though I won't be able to keep up with a "real race car."

 

As for the tire/wheel size, here's some clarification. My current rims are 16x7.5 at 11 lbs each. These are the rims I'm running right now, period. So my tire selection will be based on these dimensions and the fact that I have stock fenders. Perhaps in a season or two I can get some 17" rims that are a little wider, but for now, this is it. Using a tape measure, my tires [kumho ecsta mx, 225/50R16 x4] are 9.5" wide from sidewall to sidewall, and seem to be 8.33" wide where the tire is actually in contact with the ground (at rest). In the rear, I've got about a knuckle's width of clearance between the strut tube and the tire on the inside, and on the outside the fender is actually a little over the tire to where it would rub. Up front, i've got about half the clearance between tire and coilover, but the fender actually would clear the tire...just barely.

 

The tire width dimensions that are being quoted... I assume that's sidewall to sidewall? I appreciate all of the tire/wheel recommendations, but none of them are useable with my current rims. Still at a loss for tires. Is that final? That they don't make slicks for my 16x7.5s and that I have to run DOTs?

 

As for suspension upgrades, I'm willing to go as far as I can. What can I bolt in without welding, how many of the mounts/joints can I make low-friction, etc? Or am I still not getting it? Should I not do ANY of that stuff unless I also gut, cut fenders, etc? EMI Camber plates, I know. What else? Leave the geometry as is, or get adjustable, lighter components?

 

Thanks again, guys. Sorry if I'm being hard-headed...just want to do the best I can. I may not be willing/able to build a true race car, but I'm still going to be racing this one. It still has room for improvement.

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I know you dont want to weld but I would recommend sectioning the struts to gain suspension travel and limit using the bump stops (less predictable). Sticky tires are a must and will take seconds off street tires in one fell swoop. Offset bushings are also nice so you can dial in rear toe and settle down the rear end plus add a little camber to the front.

 

Biggest lap time improvement will be the tires and if it were me I'ld add flairs and 10" rims. Looks good (better even IMHO) and add gobs of rubber to the ground. I won FTD with little more than you're set-up and 10" rims w/ FA Hoosiers ... well and it's gutted but that's probably not more than 100 lb savings ... and my engine is no where close to yours.

 

Cameron

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For a dual purpose FP/street car make sure you have a good roll bar. With 200/225 lb springs and cantilever slicks, I put my car well up on 2 wheels after a quick left/right on a concrete runway. That said I have seen two Z's in the SF Bay Area that are very similar to your car (cherry) and have run FP with 15 inch slicks without cutting the fenders. One guy is a former Bondurant instructor. Both of them are root beer brown, weird. I know your brakes are too big for 15's though.

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My current rims are 16x7.5 at 11 lbs each. These are the rims I'm running right now, period. So my tire selection will be based on these dimensions and the fact that I have stock fenders.

 

OK, that limits everything. Your tire chocies are:

 

Hoosier A6S06 225/50-16

Kumho V710 225/50-16

 

The Hoosier is arguably faster but has half the useful life. With either tire you'll want to run as much spring as your shocks will allow. Tokico Illuminas are limited to 250 lb. in, Koni 8610/8611 can go tot he high 300s, and custom valved Bilsteins can go anywhere you want with spring rates.

 

I put my car well up on 2 wheels after a quick left/right on a concrete runway.

 

More spring, less bar.

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goddamn it guys, now i'm actually considering hacking that thing down the road... i've always considered the "subtle Z" body kit, which opens up the fenders by 1.5" at each corner. i like it, because it doesn't *look* flared. unless you're a Z enthusiast, you might not ever notice.

 

would that open up the fenders enough to have competitive rubber in FP?

 

pics/more details:

http://www.reactionresearch.com/subtlez.html

 

The Hoosier is arguably faster but has half the useful life.

Victoracers it is. I'd like to have some tire life to learn/tune on.

 

you'll want to run as much spring as your shocks will allow. Tokico Illuminas are limited to 250 lb. in

Okay, so I assume since I've got Illuminas for now, 225 fr / 250 rear?

 

Anything else I should do besides the camber plates?

 

Guess I'll be running SM2 so I can at least chase/beat a few vettes since I'll be on DOTs...

 

boo. i want that race car now. you guys are assholes. [and by that i mean thanks!]

 

haha.

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Victoracers it is. I'd like to have some tire life to learn/tune on.

 

No not Victoracers, what the other guys have been talking about is Kumho V710's, big difference. They are a great tire for the money and will last a good while.

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Hmmm… Considering hacking up the car now are you?…

 

If you are going to run F prepared, do yourself a favor and run full tilt race tires. The DOT race tires are sticky but are also designed for street prepared and stock classes. If you are even remotely serious about running in a class that allows full tilt race tires, i.e. prepared or mod, then don’t use any tire unless it clearly sates on the sidewall, “not for highway use”

 

 

Here is what the Formula Atlantic tires look like on an F prepared 240-Z… (this rolling shell, minus the power train is currently for sale…) Not only do the tires hook hard, the car takes on a very aggressive appearance…

 

P1Medium.jpg

 

P2Medium.jpg

 

P3Medium.jpg

 

backMedium.jpg

 

FuelcelMedium.jpg

 

Cockpit2Medium.jpg

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my bad on the victoracers... i was thinking the new ones (V710) and mentioned the old ones (700). i appreciate the clarification though.

 

and i agree on running full slicks vice DOT in FP...but as johnc mentioned, they don't make a slick that will fit my current rims and fender restrictions, so for now, its DOTs in SM2 vice full slicks in FP. unless anyone knows of a goodyear slick that will fit a 16x7.5 rim under stock fenders? i'd love to put some on...

 

hmmm...after looking at the rear view of the yellow braap Z, seems that 1.5" flare isn't going to 'cut' it. gotta get this hybrid crap out of my mind. race car, mark. race car!

 

i'm thinking pick up a 'rolling shell' would be the way to go for me at some point. not anytime soon though, unfortunately.

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I don't think camber plates are allowed in FP, one of the nat guys told me he was running 400lb springs all around with sectione housings and 16x12 wheels with non dot slicks, me I run EM and just ordered 17x11 fronts and 17x12 rears with 295's and 315's respectively, with 440 lb springs, so I'll be cutting mine as well

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