OlderThanMe Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Alright I have been looking at Mikelly's wing and like it. I have a question: What is the ideal mounting height for such a wing? How does wing height effect the way it works? Obviously having a California wing from MSA is not going to do much. Mikelly's wing seems like a good height to work well but not be over the edge for a car that could be driven on the street. Some racing cars have cut up barn door size wings and they go stupid fast... The wing on this Z in the video is mounted really high! Wing width and section length also seems as if it would have an effect on downforce. What is a good option for our Zs? It also SEEMS the more rearward past the rear wheels you are the more of a lifting effect the wing is going to have on the front of the car as it pivots on the rear wheels. I'd like to see some discussion on this. Dan/OTM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIM73240Z Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 afaik, the higher the wing, the cleaner the air it is in. for it to be effective, it needs to be in clean air. with vortex gens, they bring the clean air down closer to the bottom edge of the car instead of up near the mid point of the hatch. i think the wing in the video posted is up high but not to high. i have seen several other z's with high wings, one is in hawaii i think. i have the vid on my hard drive. more often than not, on newer cars, the wing is 8-10" off of the deck, be it vipers or stangs. as far as the width goes, i know each sactioning body has their own rules. nasa cannot be wider than the car, i think. probably a good rule of thumb, but check the cc&rs to be sure. and the farther back behind the rear wheels will make the car pitch back because of the moment caused by the added downforce, with out anything being done up front of course:-D i think the wings on the z looks mean as hell. time to scare the crap out of those little ricers. jimbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 I wouldn't just run out and buy any large wing without doing as was hammered into our heads repeatedly. Get a plan together for total package and proceed. Beyond that, I can't comment further... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted May 28, 2007 Administrators Share Posted May 28, 2007 I wouldn't just run out and buy any large wing without doing as was hammered into our heads repeatedly. Get a plan together for total package and proceed. Beyond that, I can't comment further...Mike Good point about the plan Mike. As for "not commenting further"… you know a statement like that is an invitation for further prodding… ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Why plan when we can just copy you? Oh BTW car looks awesome Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIM73240Z Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Why plan when we can just copy you? :lmao: jimbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted May 28, 2007 Author Share Posted May 28, 2007 I wouldn't just run out and buy any large wing without doing as was hammered into our heads repeatedly. Get a plan together for total package and proceed. Beyond that, I can't comment further... Mike Ah yes. I understand what you are saying about the whole package thing and that is a good point. Some racing Zs are just running an insanely huge rear wing and the front looks fairly simple. I was looking in the how to modify your Nissan/datsun engine book at page 3... Frank Honsowetz's Z. I am designed a similar front end and it came out looking almost identical. So say my Z is a total of 6" wider than stock with the lower body from the main side crease pushed straight out 3" each. The front end extended 6"-8" forward ending about 5"-7" lower than the stock hood. Also a minimal front opening for raditor/intercooler that is sealed properly etc... This should provide plenty of downforce for even a big GT style wing on the back. I'm not going for Big wing here. I want a good balance for the track. I'll scan a pic later for those that don't have the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 I'd recommend taking another look at tests number 20-23. Copying me would pretty much copy the car in those tests, with a few few tips from Roddy's car. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Im guessing that It would be better to have a simpler designed wing or do the changes in the shape help? Completely flat vs. a curved shape. i think the wings on the z looks mean as hell. time to scare the crap out of those little ricers. Is a wing supposed to be intimidating? I think they might be ahead of us being that theyve used wings like this for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIM73240Z Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Is a wing supposed to be intimidating? I think they might be ahead of us being that theyve used wings like this for years. yes they are ahead of "us", but i have always thought that a wing on the back of the z made it look like it meant buisness. sleepers are way cool, but cars that look extreamly fast sitting in a parking lot are cool too. my .02 jimbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexicoker Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Moving the wing up or backwards is going to move the aero balance rearwards. You're correct about the wing lifting the front wheels. There is also a drag force pushing backwards on the wing, that is going to want rotate the car and lift the front end, so the higher the wing is, the greater your 'lever arm' is. The lift at the front wheels from the drag force is going to be a much lower magnitude than that from the downforce. So while tuning, if you're experience oversteer thats worse the faster you go. You'd probably see alot more difference by moving the wing backwards some more rather than adjusting the angle of attack. Most racecars are designed with aero-push. ie. the aerodynamic center of pressure is behind the center of gravity, and causes them to understeer slightly the faster they go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 ... ie. the aerodynamic center of pressure is behind the center of gravity,.... That is kind of like a throwing dart. It keeps itself stable...or reluctant to turn (understeer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario_82_ZXT Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Sorry to bring this up from the dead, but I'm in a position to have a custom wing designed just for us Z guys. From what I've gathered so far, that is probably a good height, due the the vortex generators moving the clean air further downward. And if I recall correctly, wasn't the wing most balanced at providing downforce and less drag when it was completely flat right? What about the actual shape of the wing? For simplicity's sake, I'm planning on using a rectangular sheet of aluminum, but I can design almost any bend on it, as in I can make a flat blade like this / or have it curve at the end ). Another thing that has me worried is the hatch's strength. Do they deform when the downforce is supplied? I'm thinking of adding some flat stock inside the hatch where the wing bolts up to distribute the force. Oh yea, the angle of attack will be adjustable with rod ends and such. Thanks, Mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Sorry to bring this up from the dead, but I'm in a position to have a custom wing designed just for us Z guys. From what I've gathered so far, that is probably a good height, due the the vortex generators moving the clean air further downward. And if I recall correctly, wasn't the wing most balanced at providing downforce and less drag when it was completely flat right? What about the actual shape of the wing? For simplicity's sake, I'm planning on using a rectangular sheet of aluminum, but I can design almost any bend on it, as in I can make a flat blade like this / or have it curve at the end ). Another thing that has me worried is the hatch's strength. Do they deform when the downforce is supplied? I'm thinking of adding some flat stock inside the hatch where the wing bolts up to distribute the force. Oh yea, the angle of attack will be adjustable with rod ends and such. Thanks, Mario Are you talking about making a SPOILER or a WING? If you're making a wing, you definitely want a shape. With a spoiler I don't think it matters as much, although I have seen spoilers with wickerbills on them (I think the Electromotive 280ZX in its last configuration had one). I have a book called Theory of Wing Sections: http://books.google.com/books?id=DPZYUGNyuboC&dq=theory+of+wing+sections&pg=PP1&ots=716b8-LQPL&sig=Q3su_hPEsLppXR-zlrQA4CC-k5g&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?q=theory+of+wing+sections&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS270US270&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail and it is filled with different wing profiles. You may want to pick up a copy and take a look. I know you can also get various different wing profiles from NASA, not sure how you go about that though... The flexibility of the hatch has been a concern of mine, especially after seeing so many riced out Hondas with their trunks all torn up from wings. One solution would be to attach the wing to the body of the car, rather than to the hatch. That probably means that you can't open the hatch. Other than that I'd think you might be able to reinforce the hatch, and attaching right at the corners of the hatch would be better than attaching right in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIM73240Z Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 i say just reinforce the hatch and make sure that the wing / hatch connection is trasfered through the body. im am worse off because most of you have the original hatch and i have betas fg hatch. i have a frame inside the hatch and will rest on a frame from inside the car so the hatch sees no force from the wing. jimbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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