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For the sake of my motor I may just add some STP to the oil in it now and wait another 1000 miles or so. I only have 1500-2000 miles on this motor and I changed oil after the first 500 miles. I really don't want to dish out the $8 a quart for Royal Purple... >_<

 

EDIT: Scratch that I'm just better off getting some ZDDPlus. I think we all are, guys. This is my cam as of tonight. I can see some streaks across it, this is only because the cam was not lubes while it was stored so it formed a some little rust dots (looked almsot like the pictures from the very first post of this thread, like water marks). They rub off the first crank of the motor. Other than that, the rub area on the cam is smooth and the parts that don't touch the rocker are a little bit rough. You can't feel it with your finger so I got a knife blade, oiled it, and then slid it over the lobes, this way it would catch the smallest crevace if one was made.

 

Schneider Stage IV (.495" 290º) cam. I'm guessing the E30 casting means it was a regrind. I have some calipers and I want to double check my cam because I bought the head from Datsun-Parts guy off ebay and apparently some people had issues with him... Make sure he didn't sell me a head with a stock cam or something. >_< The timing matched the cam card though so its probably the right one, I'm just anal about these things.

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Might I add I LOVE the look of a fresh motor. No sludge, so pretty. :]

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This is what Royal Purple sent me in an email. They responded stupidly fast so for $8 a quart at least you get good customer service!

 

"In a nutshell, your forum group has to become more knowledgeable and educated on the newer API oils.

 

No longer can anyone go to WalMart or their favorite parts store and except to randomly pickup an oil and expect it to work in a 30-40 year old engine.

 

The oils that your group should avoid so that you do not suffer flat tappet cam damage are the newer API SM Service Classification oils in the light weights (0W20, 5W20, 0W30, 5W30, or 10W30) as these oils are designed for the newer roller cam engines and the oils have a 25-30% reduction in the amount of ZDDP to enhance / prolong the life of the exhaust system catalyst.

 

For the older engines, stay with a multiweight 40 oil, as these do not have the 800 ppm cap like the SM SAE 30's or 20's do. Particularly if you can find a diesel rated CI-4+ / SL version as these are more robust additive packages. I have an 07 Dodge Cummins with 325 hp and 610 lb ft of torque - it uses flat tappets and runs on a 15W40 oil. Do you think this might be a bit better for your 240/ 260 vintage engine than a 5w30 SM oil designed for a Camry?

Be careful of using diesel CJ-4 oils as these have gone through a similar reduction for the new 2007 and up diesels with the DPF / Cat EGR exhaust systems.

 

The actual amount of zinc / phos - I'm in the industry - where are you getting these numbers? Who says that you need that must zinc and phos? The reason that I ask is the wear protection is not necessarily a linear relationship. What I mean is that although increasing the amount of antiwear for a particular additive package might result in increased wear protection, it could also reduce the engine cleanliness, ability to stop corrosive wear,e tc.

An easier analogy - just because Everclear is 180 proof doesn't mean that it is the best tasting liquor on the planet.

I recall dynoing a 358 back in the early 90's on Castrol GTX 20W50. Should have been fine. Lots of zinc phos (about what you're suggesting), had the heavy viscosity grade...well - the cams rounded off on the 5th dyno pull just warming up the engine. It had nothing to do with the oil - it was mechanical.

Unfortunately several aftermarket cam companies have used the changing and general ignorance of oil properties to point the finger away from some sub par cams and materials over the last three years. Yes, oil is a possible contributor but not if properly applied.

 

For RP's line of motor oils.

 

The SAE Motor Oil API grades. We've stayed with API SL rated oils which are fine for most stock flat tappet cams and high performance roller motors. If you have a 60-70's vintage high performance engine, then sue the 0W40, 5W40, 10W40, or 15W40 grades of oils. If you're real old school, then the 20W50.

All have sufficient antiwear to protect your engines.

The RP MaxCycle Motorcycle oils are 'four cycle engine oils' built to the older API SG levels - hint - they will work in any four cycle engine.

 

The RP XPR series of oils - these are race oils that are fully formulated for the street as well.

The ultimate if you want higher levels of antiwear and higher performance in horsepower wear, high temperature performance.

 

Here's how RP's Motor Oils stack up against other mineral or synthetic motor oils as far as oil film strength to stop metal to metal and high temperature oxidation resistance.

 

RP’s Unique Performance Advantages

 

Advanced Technology Creates Advanced Products

 

Royal Purple’s advanced additive technologies, such as Synerlec, enable its products to outperform leading synthetic and conventional lubricants. These unique chemistries strengthen the base oil for improved performance. They also create an ionic bond that adheres to metal parts for continuous protection.

 

 

High Film Strength Improves Performance

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The film strength of a lubricant is its inherent ability to withstand the effects of load, speed and temperature without breaking down or rupturing, thus enabling the lubricant to maintain an unbroken film between lubricated surfaces under operating conditions. Royal Purple’s high film strength improves combustion to free up more power, optimize fuel economy and reduce emissions. High film strength also dramatically reduces wear.

 

According to the editors of Hot Rod Magazine, "We’ve torn down some of our dyno engines that have been seriously abused, but with Royal P(urple) in the pan, the bearings have looked new."

 

Royal Purple actually improves the condition of metal surfaces by remaining long after pressure would have been squeezed out of ordinary lubricants. Royal Purple responds to increased pressure with increased viscosity. Take a look at the following photos:

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A new bearing surface appears smooth until magnified 1500X.

 

 

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The same bearing surface roughened after using a leading synthetic oil.

 

 

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The same bearing surface after using Royal Purple.

 

 

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Lubricants often have a limited service life due to oxidation which reduces oil’s ability to lubricate. Oil’s ability to resist oxidation is measured by the ASTM’s rigorous Thin Film Oxidation Uptake Test (TFOUT). The test is so severe that it lasts only 1300 minutes. Royal Purple not only surpasses leading mineral- and synthetic-based oils in the test, it also outlasts the duration of the test.

 

Royal Purple’s superior oxidation stability enable oil changes to be extended up to 12,000 miles or more depending on the equipment. Extending oil change intervals save you time and money. It also reduces the impact on the environment by reducing the amount of oil that has to be produced and disposed of."

 

Of course the information is all promoting Royal Purple but I mean its good reading I do suppose.

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My personal opinion on the first post in this thread and the cam failure is that it wasn't the oil but the adjustment of valves and the metallurgy but thats just me... I would think that oil without ZDDP would lead to failure after several thousand miles rather than 1500 unless the oil was not only lacking the ZDDP but ALSO very thin/wrong weight. Then again I don't know too much about this so my opinion isn't necesarily as valid as other top dogs here.

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Guest Widebodys30

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Those cam pad surfaces there are toast, buddy. All 3 are. You can't think those are OK in any scenario. Engines are like a huge Rolex watch. Would you use a jewel with several teeth missing?

 

Those scanning electron microscope pics can't be argued with.

Even if they picked the "worst" and "best" pics for advertising,

what they show going on has me sold. Oil changes are so expensive now anyways, 20 extra bucks won't kill us, and the fact you can(if you wish) nearly quadruple the old 3,000 mile rule?

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Guest Widebodys30

Some advice, from the netherworld of the internet:

The surfaces of the wipe pads needs to be dang near PERFECT. In no instance is ANY damage OK for use. If you can feel ANYTHING with your fingernail run across it, something is not right. Let alone actually being able to SEE it with your naked eye!! If it is VERY minor, a fine scotch brite pad, or 1,000+ grit sandpaper might polish it out. Otherwise get them rebuilt/reground.

 

From what I am reading @ here and other places, properly installing a Z cam is something that WAY too many people cut BIG corners on, and don't do 100% correctly, very often at all. On such an insanely important procedure! I see it's rather time consuming on OHC Datsuns, but SOO important! Perhaps because they don't want to buy different sizes of lash pad, or take the time, or something? Chances are, EACH lobe/valve might be different!

 

You'd rather not bother, or spend the $$$, and within 10,000 miles wipe that $500 Cam and rocker kit you bought? :icon56: Talk about having more $ than brains or skill. People who do this kind of garbage, please see my Sig, and don't act surprised when you wipe a lobe, or ruin wipe pads on your rockers, and fill your oil with metal shavings and particles. ZINC won't cure your problems.

 

Sorry, I get annoyed at pure mechanical idiocy, and it is so prevalent and rampant. Like GM V6 cast alloy pan oil drains tightened to what has to be 150-175 ft lbs. I've seen it over and over. Seems REALLY common on Chevys.

I'm done venting, Ty.:burnout:

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I think the issue comes from the fact that the STOCK valve train (along with the rest of the L engine) is quite robust and one can pretty much throw any combination of STOCK parts together and expect it to live for a long time.

 

However, as people leave stock behind they don't always realize they need to do their homework, and then find out the hard way about things like wipe patterns, ZDDP, etc. I was nearly one of them myself.

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  • 2 years later...

I started this thread in Aug of 2008 and worked on it for several months until things stalled. Which seems typical with most my projects. With in the past several months I was able to get back to it and have slowly been re-assembling the cam and components. I have completed the rocker arm wipe pattern adjustment and timed the cam to manufacturers specs. I also coated all the cam lobes with Moly lube. Today I plan on putting together the rest of the engine and starting it up for the break in period. So this is my plan. I have taken photos of rocker arm and cam lobe of cylinder No. 1 intake and I have posted them here. I will run in the cam for thirty minutes and take another set of pictures and again post them here. Then after 500 miles another set, and another at 1000 miles. So if any signs of wear show up you will be able to see it along with me. Obviously the goal is to have no wear at all. post-498-083629200 1308595923_thumb.jpg post-498-018760000 1308596004_thumb.jpg So this is how the engine is at present. I drained the oil, dropped the pan and cleaned it. I did find a few metal shavings and I found allot of blue silicone gasket maker in my oil pick up screen. Changed the filter and added a Filter Mag. I have reinstalled the pan and poured in Comp Cams break in oil. So next is install the radiator, valve cover and a few other items and it is Vrumba time!! The cam has been reground by Crane. I have installed new aftermarket rockers (all I could find or afford). As mentioned earlier the wipe pattern has been set with all new lash pads. Lash pad wipe pattern was checked. Valve clearance has been set cold (obviously). So next time you hear from me it will be good or bad. Wish me luck. Paul

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  • 2 weeks later...

30 minutes down and I have good news and bad news. The good news is it looks like everything is wearing really well. Here is a pic of the number 1 rocker and lobe.

 

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The bad news is number 4 intake has a problem. Take a look at this.

 

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So after heaving an emotional break down I came to this plan. I think there is something that has been smeared on the lobe. Notice the difference in color. I'm going to continue to run it and check it about every 100 miles to see what it does. I also have an e-mail into Crane to ask what to do (hoping for a miracle here). At this point I have no time or money to go to a new cam shaft. And if I did I think it is time to pull the head and start at the valve installed height, spring force, etc, etc. all the way to a new cam.

 

I took it out for a spin and man I love it! First drive in more than three years!!

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