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im new to this site, i read basicly this whole thread, and i had a couple questions, my hope is about 300 wheel hp more would be ok also

 

1. what is the stock combustion chamber on a 350?

 

2. i was thinking about using vortec heads (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D151124&N=700+4294925232+4294908395+4294908216+4294838998+4294840140+4294867081+4294867028+115&autoview=sku) and i wanted to know what rods, pistons, i should use (forged, but cheap, good qual but cheap price) and cam?

 

3. if i followed exactly what you tell me to use what about or so would my comp ratio be?

 

4. what intake and carb would you use?

 

im sorry if you answered a question similar to this already and i missed it, your help would be extreamly helpful.

 

p.s. i wanted to say a co-worker said to use a 5 speed out of a turbo firebird (or something i have a bad memory) and swap the bellhousing to one out of a gen 3 camaro.

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im new to this site, i read basicly this whole thread, and i had a couple questions, my hope is about 300 wheel hp more would be ok also

 

1. what is the stock combustion chamber on a 350?

 

2. i was thinking about using vortec heads (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D151124&N=700+4294925232+4294908395+4294908216+4294838998+4294840140+4294867081+4294867028+115&autoview=sku) and i wanted to know what rods, pistons, i should use (forged, but cheap, good qual but cheap price) and cam?

 

3. if i followed exactly what you tell me to use what about or so would my comp ratio be?

 

4. what intake and carb would you use?

 

im sorry if you answered a question similar to this already and i missed it, your help would be extreamly helpful.

 

p.s. i wanted to say a co-worker said to use a 5 speed out of a turbo firebird (or something i have a bad memory) and swap the bellhousing to one out of a gen 3 camaro.

 

 

first read thru this

 

http://www.rustpuppy.org/chp/

 

then buy and read thru the book and watch this dvd

 

http://www.themotorbookstore.com/resmchstvi.html

 

once youve done that we will get into your goals in detail

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im new to this site, i read basicly this whole thread, and i had a couple questions, my hope is about 300 wheel hp more would be ok also

 

1. what is the stock combustion chamber on a 350?

 

2. i was thinking about using vortec heads (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D151124&N=700+4294925232+4294908395+4294908216+4294838998+4294840140+4294867081+4294867028+115&autoview=sku) and i wanted to know what rods, pistons, i should use (forged, but cheap, good qual but cheap price) and cam?

 

3. if i followed exactly what you tell me to use what about or so would my comp ratio be?

 

4. what intake and carb would you use?

 

im sorry if you answered a question similar to this already and i missed it, your help would be extreamly helpful.

 

p.s. i wanted to say a co-worker said to use a 5 speed out of a turbo firebird (or something i have a bad memory) and swap the bellhousing to one out of a gen 3 camaro.

 

 

first read thru this

 

http://www.rustpuppy.org/chp/

 

then buy and read thru the book and watch this dvd

 

http://www.themotorbookstore.com/resmchstvi.html

 

once youve done that we will get into your goals in detail

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Got another one for you Grumpy.

 

Last weekend my 385 sbc powered Zcar was giving me fits starting. Sometimes it would start right up and others it would make a single "click" and nothing. I would turn the key again and it would fire right up.

 

I ran into another problem that necessitated swapping intake gaskets out on my Z the next day and after getting the intake back on I went to drop the distributor in so I used my remote starter to bump her over and when I did the motor kept turning over until I hit the emergency kill switch out back.

 

I am baffled as to wether it is the starter or the Ford remote selenoid that I use? Got any idea's before I go dropping the exhaust to get to the starter for nothing...LOL

 

Thanks,

Mike

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First, thanks grumppyvette for taking on some rather specific questions. Here's mine: I dropped my full exhaust this last time at the strip and put on 2 1/4 x 18 header extentions on my shorty headers and picked up a full second. I need a different exhaust and I would like to have it designed so it would have the same, or nearly the same power as open headers.

 

Here's the motor:

355 1996 pickup block (Chevrolet)

XR276HR cam with springs and full roller lifters

AFR 180 street port heads

Weiand stealth manifold with a 770 Holley street avenger.

1 1/2 Heddman shorties (Jeep conversion headers).

 

The chassis:

1986 RX7

4.10 gears

700R4, no stall.

 

I've read and read about primary sizes, tube diameters, etc., and I would like a plain english answer from experience on what would be the best set up.

 

Thanks, Jim.

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"I've read and read about primary sizes, tube diameters, etc., and I would like a plain english answer from experience on what would be the best set up.

 

Thanks, Jim."

 

 

 

http://www.slowgt.com/Calc2.htm#Header

 

http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/CamDetails.aspx?csid=188&sb=2

 

ok I did the math, with that cam and that displacement, intake, etc, your peak torque should fall close to 5000rpm, in the power curve

 

1 3/4" primairies

39" long

3.25" collector 20" long

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Got another one for you Grumpy.

 

Last weekend my 385 sbc powered Zcar was giving me fits starting. Sometimes it would start right up and others it would make a single "click" and nothing. I would turn the key again and it would fire right up.

 

I ran into another problem that necessitated swapping intake gaskets out on my Z the next day and after getting the intake back on I went to drop the distributor in so I used my remote starter to bump her over and when I did the motor kept turning over until I hit the emergency kill switch out back.

 

I am baffled as to wether it is the starter or the Ford remote selenoid that I use? Got any idea's before I go dropping the exhaust to get to the starter for nothing...LOL

 

Thanks,

Mike

 

first step,

check and probably replace the engine ground and check and probably replace the main power cable to the starter from the remote ford solenoid, Id also replace the ford solenoid as they are very cheap, and easily access.

its probably not the starter ITSELF.

if the problem remains Id start looking the ignition switch and the wiring to the solenoid

 

 

http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/solenoid.htm

 

http://www.novaresource.org/starter.htm

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Here's some advice a friend gave me (not that I can actually take it due to lack of funds.)

 

"the block to have-70s C/K series 4 bolt main high nickle 3970010. This casting is also in camaros/vettes as 2 bolt mains.

 

you get ahold of one of these bad boys, theres no worries of block cracking or grenading at 500+hp.

 

the heads that flow are any double hump pretty much. 461 461X 462 292 291 186 187. Make sure they have 202 intake 160 exhaust valves. (they have bigger ports to begin with) any X code head=factory high flow. (some aftermarket heads dont even flow as much as X codes) Angle plug heads are typically over the counter back in the day aftermarket GMPP. those are worth BIG bucks. I know im not mentioning the power pack 283s, or LT1 350 (1970) heads. Those are a needle in a pile of needles to find. I have a set of power packs on stand by but too much compression due to small chambers id need to run 112 race gas with -12cc dished pistons.

 

If you cant come across those heads, Bowtie Phase 2 or Phase 3 heads.

If you do come across those heads, take them to a machine shop to have the rocker arm studs removed. Theyre factory pressed in and a bitch to get out. Have them removed and tapped so you can have screw in studs. Pressed in ones can from high rpm and vibrations caused, back out and ♥♥♥♥ up your valve train quick. rounding off cam lobes, bending valves etc.

 

crankshaft. You want to find C30 C40 C50 C60 trucks, dumptrucks, tow trucks. Some were equipped with 327s and 283s. Youll want the 327 crank. And if your racing, and regulations are 2bbl, youll want the intake (2bbl high rise) These cranks are steel, and nitrded. Take the crank and rotating assembly to a machine shop, have them lighten it, knife edge the counter weights, chamfer the oil holes. When you knife edge it, you are going to reduce the turbulance in the crank case which means less oppsing force on the crank at higher rpm. Your going to need your entire rotating assembly balanced. Pistons rods crank balancer and flywheel.

chamfering your oil holes will increase oiling to the bearings.

 

thats really all you have to know. That and what cam you should use. depending on the application, there is a such thing as TOO much and it can hinder performance."

 

Does this seem reasonable? Sounds too good to be true, help me almighty Chevy god.

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Here's some advice a friend gave me (not that I can actually take it due to lack of funds.)

 

"the block to have-70s C/K series 4 bolt main high nickle 3970010. This casting is also in camaros/vettes as 2 bolt mains.

 

thats fine but chevy rates those, and current production, 4 bolt blocks as good for 350hp

 

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/ChevyBareBlockProductionBlockSmallBlockV8s/10105123.html

 

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/ChevyBareBlockProductionBlockSmallBlockV8s/10066034.html

 

even the chevy strait 4 bolt bowtie blocks only rated at 450hp

 

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/ChevyBareBlockBowTieBlockSmallBlockV8s/10185047.html

 

you need to get into the splayed 4 bolt main cap blocks before the hp rating exceeds 450hp

 

you get ahold of one of these bad boys, theres no worries of block cracking or grenading at 500+hp.

we all know guys who have built engines exceeding 450hp with stock blocks but the blocks not designed for that stress and the main caps tend to walk at 450 plus, yes you may get away for years before something fails, but the blocks not nearly as strong as a BOWTIE,DART,BRODIX etc designed for racing, keep in mind an engine that makes 450 peak hp is making much less at lower rpms, any engine held at max rpms will far more quickly show its flaws than one thats only occasionally run hard, thats why the dyno hero gets to show the proof his engine peaks at 450 plus hp, and still gets to drive the car on the street for months or even years, its very seldom run at full stress levels

 

the heads that flow are any double hump pretty much. 461 461X 462 292 291 186 187. Make sure they have 202 intake 160 exhaust valves. (they have bigger ports to begin with) any X code head=factory high flow. (some aftermarket heads dont even flow as much as X codes) Angle plug heads are typically over the counter back in the day aftermarket GMPP. those are worth BIG bucks. I know im not mentioning the power pack 283s, or LT1 350 (1970) heads. Those are a needle in a pile of needles to find. I have a set of power packs on stand by but too much compression due to small chambers id need to run 112 race gas with -12cc dished pistons.

all pretty much 30 year old and tottally out of date info

 

you really need top read thru this first)

http://www.alaniztechnologies.com/headterms.html

 

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/runnertorquecalc.html

 

http://www.dw1977.cz28.com/photo2.html

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~hennad/results.html

 

http://www.malcams.com/legacy/misc/headflow.htm

 

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm

 

http://www.purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/heads1.html#GM%20LT4

 

http://www.kendrick-auto.com/head_flow_figures.htm

 

decent DART,AFR,BRODIX, or TRICKFLOW heads make, ported stock or even bowtie heads look like a joke

 

 

 

If you cant come across those heads, Bowtie Phase 2 or Phase 3 heads.

If you do come across those heads, take them to a machine shop to have the rocker arm studs removed. Theyre factory pressed in and a bitch to get out. Have them removed and tapped so you can have screw in studs. Pressed in ones can from high rpm and vibrations caused, back out and ♥♥♥♥ up your valve train quick. rounding off cam lobes, bending valves etc.

 

crankshaft. You want to find C30 C40 C50 C60 trucks, dumptrucks, tow trucks. Some were equipped with 327s and 283s. Youll want the 327 crank. And if your racing, and regulations are 2bbl, youll want the intake (2bbl high rise) These cranks are steel, and nitrded. Take the crank and rotating assembly to a machine shop, have them lighten it, knife edge the counter weights, chamfer the oil holes. When you knife edge it, you are going to reduce the turbulance in the crank case which means less oppsing force on the crank at higher rpm. Your going to need your entire rotating assembly balanced. Pistons rods crank balancer and flywheel.

chamfering your oil holes will increase oiling to the bearings.

 

again 30 year old out of date tech info, theres far stronger and better cranks, rods,pistons, available

 

heres a post covering some of that info

I was recently asked if the differance between a cast crank and rods at $1200, vs FORGED at $1600 was worth the differance in cost by a guy who fully intends to race the car and has a high probability of useing nitrous...

"

Originally Posted by grumpyvette

think of it this way if you buy the cast/hyper deal youve WASTED $1200 PLUS, AND youll need to spend an additional $1700,-1900 PLUS, the gaskets and machine shop costs if you ever want to upgrade, if you buy the forged set up you spent about $400 more than you wanted to but youll never need to upgrade

spend $450 or $3000????

 

 

So Grumpy, just to make sure I understand, you think I should buy the better kit? You're kinda ridin the fence.

 

Just kidding, I get the feeling that if you could reach thru the computer you would be vigurously shaking me back and forth yelling "spend the freaking money"

 

 

"I get the feeling that if you could reach thru the computer you would be vigurously shaking me back and forth yelling "spend the freaking money"

 

thats .......what I get for useing a cheap VOODOO DOLL,........... NEVER TRY TO USE LOW PRICE PARTS ON CRITICAL COMPONENTS

your NOT getting the measage full strength if your only getting a (FEELING)......

by now you should be having SEVERAL REALLY NASTY 9 foot tall demons boncing you off the wall and ceiling and having the

"spend the freaking money"

in flames on the wall, if the stupid VOODOO DOLL was working correctly

 

 

 

 

I posted this before

""5140 or 4340 ? Get the Facts and End the Confusion."

 

Before we can answer the question "which metal do I need in my crankshaft". I think we need to take a moment and review just what each metal is made of and what are the best applications for each. In the following discussion we will see the strengths and weaknesses of each and with this information we will be able to decide which Crankshaft material will best fit our needs.

 

Starting with the basics, metals containing primarily iron are classified as "ferrous metals". They range from pure iron through exotic high-alloy steels. Stock Crankshafts are made from cast iron, a metallic iron with more than 2 percent dissolved carbon. One preferred variation, ductile or nodular iron has all its carbon contained in the form of tiny spherical graphite nodules uniformly dispersed throughout the metal's matrix. This makes the material more ductile (deformable rather than brittle) and eases casting and machining.

 

Even the best cast iron has only limited tensile strength. Increasing ductility, hardness, malleability and fatigue resistance requires removing most carbon and at the high end, alloying iron with other elements, creating "steel" an iron with less than 2 percent carbon

 

The most basic form of this is carbon steel, which contains up to 1.7 percent carbon and minimal additional alloying elements. Carbon steels are designated by a four digit number. The first two digits indicate the basic type, and the last two digits indicate the approximate midpoint of the carbon content. The "10" ID's these alloys as non-resulfurized carbon steel with some manganese (popularly called medium-carbon or mild steel). The second two digits the "45" or "53" means the steel contains about 0.45 or 0.53 percent carbon respectively. Stock forged OEM cranks are usually made from 1045 or 1053 steel. There are exceptions to this, some 350 high performance steel cranks in the sixties were made from 5140 and some manufactures offer 5140 or 4340 in their high performance aftermarket catalogs.

 

From these mild OEM steels the next step up is Alloy steel. Alloy steels allow for more variations depending on the alloying materials. Over time as manufacturing techniques improved and chemical knowledge grew., metallurgist developed whole families of alloy steels, custom-tailored to make metals stronger, lighter, more durable, more ductile, and harder. Alloy steels are also identified by a four-digit number, with the first two digits indicating the major alloying element or elements, with the last two digits indicating the approximate midpoint of the carbon range.

 

We will now examine the four most common groups of steel, we will examine their best uses and hopefully come up with a buying criteria for making a decision on our crankshaft purchase. We want our purchase to be based on knowledge of the product and its intended use.

 

 

 

4130 The best known chrome-moly steel. It is a high-strength/high-stress alloy when produced in thin sections (sheet metal and tubing). But 4130 possesses very poor deep heat-treating characteristics which make it a bad choice for machined or forged parts.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

4140 A deep-hardening chrome-moly steel , it forges well and has good impact resistance, fatigue strength and general all around toughness.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

4340 A nickel-chrome-moly steel, this alloy is used to make premium cranks.4340 has good tensile strength, toughness, and fatigue resistance. Modified 4340 alloys with vanadium and more silicon can make this already good alloy even tougher and more fatigue-resistant. The main drawback is cost.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

5140 This chromium alloy increases tensile strength, hardness, toughness, and wear-resistance over carbon steel. It has the same basic elements of 4340 and is made with the same process but is more affordable.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

So what can we conclude from this short primer. Our first conclusion is that we don't want to purchase a crank made from 4130. The lack of deep heat treating properties makes it unacceptable for most performance applications. That leaves us with 5140 and 4340. Of the two we feel 5140 is the crankshaft material that suits most clients needs. Reason #1, based on feedback from clients using our cranks the 5140 crankshaft lasts as long as the 4340 when used in all but the most extreme racing conditions. For applications where the engine is putting out 800hp or less and turning 8,000rpm or less, 5140 is the right choice. Reason #2, in engine building you save money where ever you can, if it doesn't effect the performance or durability of the engine and our 5140 crankshafts are priced 30-40% below 4340 crankshafts in cost.

 

short answer,forged is best, cast steel is significantly stronger than plain cast iron and can be slightly more flexable, unfortunately, as the quality gets better the cost gets higher, and your connecting rods are FAR more likely to fail than the crank in most engine combos below about 6500rpm

 

http://machinistinfo.com/types_of_cast_iron.htm

 

http://www.key-to-steel.com/Articles/Art1.htm

 

http://www.seaportsteel.com/TechHeat.htm

 

http://crankshaftspecialist.net/cryogenics.html

 

http://carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0308_crankshafts_how_to/index1.html"

 

"Cast cranks weight less so the engine will rev quicker (like a light flywheel)"

 

thats a very comon MYTH!

keep in mind each crank casting or forging can be a totally differant design, and that the machine work done,and the weight of the total rotating assembly must be taken into account.

forged cranks can and frequently ARE lighter in weight , mosty of the weight is located in counter weights, a forged crank is generally used with FORGED rods and pistons and forged pistons and rods can be made both stronger and lighter at any given strength level, lighter rods/pistons allow for lighter counter weights.

 

 

example

 

http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/PDFs/ScatCrank07.pdf

 

 

if you compare carefully youll see the BETTER forged cranks are LIGHTER than the BETTER cast cranks and the weights of both cast and forged craks vary with the stroke and extent and quality of the machine work

the engine with the lighter rotating assembly only reves quicker in neutral, when its doing work (IE THE TRANS IS GETTING THE POWER TO THE REAR ) the car can only accellerate as fast as the CAR and tires,ETC will allow it to,

So true.

 

 

thats really all you have to know. That and what cam you should use. depending on the application, there is a such thing as TOO much and it can hinder performance."

 

agreed

 

Does this seem reasonable? Sounds too good to be true, help me almighty Chevy god.

 

hope that helps a bit

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Guest curiousZbuild

this may be the wrong place to ask.. but you seem the most knowledgable and i beleive youd give me a fair answer.

 

my question: could a stock Z car 5 speed handle a 275hp 350 small block? and if not, is there a website that sells refurbished T5's or (something manual of that nature) that i just havent found yet?

 

i dont plan on making it much faster.. but just in case, if i went for a 600CFM with a say.. .500's lift cam and stockbottom end, would THAT be too much for the stock Z car 5 speed?

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the basically stock (Z) body has had a 300hp-350 hp even a 400hp, sbc installed hundreds of times and the quality of the drivetrain components, motor and transmission mounts, the radiator, etc., that were used and the care taken durring the swap process will determine the results, get this manual before you start

 

http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Datsun_Z_V-8.html

 

http://www.5speedtransmissions.com/5_speed_prices.html

 

http://www.advancedracing.com/car_parts/gears/manual.php

 

http://www.classicchevy.com/product.asp?pf_id=08-400&dept_id=1857

 

http://www.corvettefever.com/techarticles/corp_0808_tremec_tko_600_the_shift_is_on_tech/index.html

 

 

and if you want to push things and learn to fabricate???

 

http://ywnv.vidiac.com/recentvideos/7/8398a7ec-f655-4e70-9d11-99ab012eba03.htm

 

I thought you guys might like to look this over,a NICE CLEAN INSTALL, and A VIDEO, its an interesting installed 572 BBC swap that goes 8.30's at 165 on the giggle gas,and is STREET LEGAL,"TAGGED" (hes now installing wheelie bars for obvious reasons)

 

03200006.jpg

 

03200002.jpg

 

03200019.jpg

 

03200004.jpg

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thats a question similar to

(how pretty is the next girl youll pass in the hallway in the mall?)

 

look its very unlikely that 6 psi of boost will hurt a stock LT1 but factors like ring gap, ignition curve, coolant temp, air temp, oil level,oil temp.,octane of the fuel used, etc. will effect the results

generally Id say 6 psi of boost is unlikely to hurt much,if you back off, on the ignition advance curve and use high test gas,

but you know that theres always that tendency to run at the upper limits,

push the ignition advance,etc. and at some point youll get yourself into detonation and damage parts,

with those little tweaks, used too get just a bit more hp from the combo,

your far better off , building the combo for its intended use!

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If you have any suggested reading I'd love to know, I bought the car with LT1 already in, my motor knowledge is limited but I have no problem getting my hands dirty and no problem cleaning them to read a manual, my biggest issues are time (who doesn't need more time) and getting started.

 

I love the power the LT1 puts out in the car, however I've always been addicted to the feeling you get when turbo spools. So I was considering how hard it would be to get a turbo in the car running a small amount of boost without actually killing everything that's already there. Any info you feel like giving out I'd love to hear/read.

 

thanks

-polarity

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Guest curiousZbuild

you are a lovely man. ill have more question im sure when i get closer to the swap. i have the engine in my truck i just need to find the right candidate. :)

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thx , this comp wont load the first site you told me to read threw fully, gatta wait to have money to do the second part.

 

but, do you know by chance how high a powerhouse 383 stroker revs?

 

my friend, and room mate/z consultant is worried about power to rev ratio (as in wont rev high enough) and me not being able to get off the line, i know im probably asking alot of dumb questions, but it would help to know.

 

my basic real want is as your signature says smokem at a 60 mph roll lol

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thx , this comp wont load the first site you told me to read threw fully, gatta wait to have money to do the second part.

 

but, do you know by chance how high a powerhouse 383 stroker revs?

 

my friend, and room mate/z consultant is worried about power to rev ratio (as in wont rev high enough) and me not being able to get off the line, i know im probably asking alot of dumb questions, but it would help to know.

 

my basic real want is as your signature says smokem at a 60 mph roll lol

 

your rpm level will be determined in large part buy the combo of heads, cam and engine stroke, a 383 will generally peak some where in the 6300rpm-7300rpm band if its properly assembled....if you want to smokem from a 60mph roll your looking at building an engine thats not really designed for street use, and your more than likely talking a bbc with high cpr and possiably useing nitrous in a sbc.

my 1968 vette used to do that easily, but a 13.7:1 cpr full roller 496 BBC with CROWER injection is hardly the ideal engine in traffic

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Grumpy,

 

I checked out all the wires and they checked out ok. Next I replaced the Ford remote soleniod and that checked out ok but the problem still persists. I guess I'll go ahead and pull the starter and see if I can fix it otherwise I guess it's time for a new mini starter.

 

Oh well if it's not one thing it's another.

 

Thanks,

Mike

 

 

 

 

first step,

check and probably replace the engine ground and check and probably replace the main power cable to the starter from the remote ford solenoid, Id also replace the ford solenoid as they are very cheap, and easily access.

its probably not the starter ITSELF.

if the problem remains Id start looking the ignition switch and the wiring to the solenoid

 

 

http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/solenoid.htm

 

http://www.novaresource.org/starter.htm

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