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Unnatural Aspiration part 3


stony

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That's cool i guess i will see. With the right bore finish, ring gaps ect ect shouldn't have a problem. We will see. Can't see how a company like this would stay in business if their product didn't work. not saying you guys did anything wrong.... there is a ton of neg feedback out there but there is also a ton of positive feedback. if it doesn't work oh well. guess i will tear it down and not use gapless again. 

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They sell and manufacture OEM style rings and custom rings as well, so surely there not relying on gapless ring sales.

There is a reason EVERY piston manufacture recommends the 2nd ring gap to be larger than the first.. 

 

I think you should try the gapless top.. I've contemplated trying the gapless top ring but that small ring that seals over it worry's me.. its so tiny and thin, Its like part of an oil control ring on top..eek!!

 

FYI, i recently did a leakdown test on my motor, its been in the car since 09 and has seen some abuse. I really rattled it a while ago and lost a head gasket.. i did a leakdown test prior to replacing the head gasket... it was less than 3 percent on a cold engine.. impressive to say the least.

 

I just hope you don't have issues, if you are contemplating changing, now is the time!!

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Well I wasn't till I got all this negative feedback. For sure gonna call total seal and find out what the deal is. I'm also hearing that there are articles where total seal dosnt recommend gapless seceond. ????

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So THEY say the reason people have issues is, 1. improper bore finish, 2. bad valve guide seals, all that is new on mine and the bore finish is correct. 

 

im gonna think about it a little longer. may just order a conventional second. BUT i really do not want to pull everything apart again. 

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Yeah see i'm still not buying that, the engine i had them in had a fresh cylinder head.. I could see the additional ring seal causing intake valve guide seals to leak more, but my smoking issue wasn't really happening on decel or idle much at all from what i can remember.

 

However i will admit, i'm not sure if the bore was finished to what they recommend.

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  • 1 month later...

I stuck with gapless seconds. I have done everything that total seal recommends. Bore finish, guids and guide seals, and gapped rings everything to their specs. I am still waiting on the head to be finished. It sucks getting any type of machine work done on this motor where I am nobody is really familiar with it.

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I dropped it off to have the valves done. After hand lapping I discovered that the valve gaps were way too tight. I don't know if I overlapped or if they were like that before. My suspicion is is they were very tight before which may have been causing my backfiring issues on the nitrous. At any rate about 3 or 4 days after I dropped the head off one of their main machinist quit and the other only machinist that was qualified to work on my head broke his arm. Then once he was back as he was pulling the guide seals out one of the valve guides came out with it. Not 100 percent sure of the accuracy of that. I have a small part of me that feels maybe this was just an excuse for the time it has taken. That head literally only has maybe a 50 miles worth of quarter mile passes on it. The head was built by Jun in Japan. Pretty sure they know what they're doing. It was supposed to be done Wednesday but I received no call planning on calling today for an update on why its not done.

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to answer your question I drcked the head 2 millimeters, valve job and valve guide seals. That along with cylinder hone, and specific ring gap is the setup needed for success. .... we will see soon enough..

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Decked the head 2mm!!! I assume that's a typo..lol

 

I'd be skeptical of anything claimed to be built by Jun or any other high end Japanese tuner, stuffs pretty rare over here.. unless you were there yourself, I remember you being Military.

 

Hopefully you get it all worked out, I just got off the dyno again a week ago, just made 800whp!! Mines been pretty trouble free for 6 years, hopefully it stays that way :)

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Not a typo. Going hi compression on E85. 

 

If i didn't have bad luck i'd have no luck. After 2 months I got tired of waiting for my head to be finished. So today i picked it up from the machinist. In that time they cut valve seats. I got a dirty head back with 7 bad exh and 1 bad intake valve. oh well.....

 

All the good valves are gaped and ready for install. just waiting on some more valves to show up. found a buddy who had some extras. Almost pulled the trigger on bigger valves and springs for hi RPm>

 

20150510_001001_zps81klol98.jpg

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I was running a 1.2 mm hg before and had no power or torque below 5500rpm. Stock hg thickness is .9 something. Changed to 1.1 and shaved 2mm. This should put me close to stock clearances..... I think. Haven't measured anything yet. Once everything is cleaned and ready to install I will measure and verify clearances. If it's too tight I will do a thicker hg. I want to be in the 10 to 1 range for compression..

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Problem with running thick or thin head gaskets is it effects quench clearance so much.. not an ideal situation.. getting the head surfaced right where you want it while accounting for head gasket thickness you can account for quench..

 

Do your pistons have a positive or negative deck clearance?

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Still waiting on my dial indicator but eyeballing the the piston to deck... its just below being flush with top of the block. also the intake squish pad is removed on my head.

 

Here is a pic i took the first time I rebuilt it. 

 

DSC02997.jpg

 

Here is a pic of the combustion chamber. This is an old pic before taking 2mm off

 

DSC03404.jpg

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Yeah, taking all that material off is going to effect cam timing too.

 

looks like they might sit in a few thousands in the picture..

 

I dunno man, not sure i would have went that route, you took alot of "rebuildability" off that head. compression don't matter as much in a drag motor, just slam more boost down its throat

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