FricFrac Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 Sorry guys but Im a bit confused...but thats easy to do? Does the installer need to supply the housing or is it included with the kit? I found this Alumina site and it appears the H4 housing is not included. http://www.aluminaxenon.com/products.htm Oh just to clear things up there are two "pieces" to this procedure. One is getting an H4 housing to replace the sealed beams you already have in the car and the second is to get an H4 HID Bi-Xenon kit to upgrade the H4 halogen system to H4 style buld HIDs. A good H4 housing is very important as its what directs the light and produces the "beam" which prevents oncoming drivers from being blinded by the light. The intensity of HID low beams is just as intense as the high beams. Low beams are just controlled so the beam doesn't go into the eyes of oncoming drivers. Sealed beams are controlled but the low beam is also a lower intensity as are halogen bulbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 This whole HID thing is really confusing with lots of conflicting information. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of companies out there selling HID conversion kits. Of course they all claim that they’re not the cheap knock off kits sold by others that stop working after just a couple of months. How can you really tell the good one’s from the bad – and I really don’t believe that it’s just price. I found this digital slim 4-3(9003) bi-xenon kit for only $86.99 and it has a one year warranty http://www.vvme.com/digital-slim-h439003-bixenon-hid-kit-p-128.html?cPath=44_46_35. How can you tell if this is a good kit or not – and what’s the difference between this kit and others like the alumina kit that FricFrac used? Is the only real key to a good beam pattern and cut-off the housing itself? A side-by-side comparison of various kits would be great, but I haven’t been able to find anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddjob Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 This whole HID thing is really confusing with lots of conflicting information. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of companies out there selling HID conversion kits. Of course they all claim that they’re not the cheap knock off kits sold by others that stop working after just a couple of months. How can you really tell the good one’s from the bad – and I really don’t believe that it’s just price. I found this digital slim 4-3(9003) bi-xenon kit for only $86.99 and it has a one year warranty http://www.vvme.com/digital-slim-h439003-bixenon-hid-kit-p-128.html?cPath=44_46_35. How can you tell if this is a good kit or not – and what’s the difference between this kit and others like the alumina kit that FricFrac used? Is the only real key to a good beam pattern and cut-off the housing itself? A side-by-side comparison of various kits would be great, but I haven’t been able to find anything like that. The key to a good beam pattern involves two items: the envelope (housing) and the lamp. These are actually the only optical elements. The envelope contains the reflector and either a clear cover or a lens. It isn't "just" price, but price tends to be an indicator of good engineering, thoughtful materials selection, and careful manufacturing. There are perhaps a dozen different reflector types, including shape, faceting and mirror material. There are probably half-a-dozen different lens types. More than a few of the possible combinations will give good results, subject to your personal preferences. The one thing which absolutely must be present is very precise optical performance. That usually comes down to price. None of the many conversions you have found will work well in a poor envelope. If it will help, I chose 7" Hella H4 Euro spec envelopes for my Z, which are about $35 each, empty. I'm pleased with them so far, but I'm still in the process of optimizing them with other technical tricks. The lamp must also be well engineered, use good materials and be manufactured well. The precise location of the lamp filament or arc (at the focal point of the reflector) will determine whether your reflector works correctly or scatters light everywhere. The blinder, if present, (small reflector on the lamp axis) must be precise. A badly engineered or manufactured lamp will make a good envelope perform badly. Sadly, you probably will have to either try a few combinations or study up on the technical details and just take a chance. The only shortcut I can recommend is buying from a well-known, reputable manufacturer. Please note that I have only discussed optical performance. There is also electrical performance, another bag of worms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 So here's a shot of the output from my Autopal MSR H4 housings. I think it looks pretty good, so it seems like a good potential candidate for an HID kit. Vvme sounds like a reputable company with good engineered products (of course, this is solely based on investigating their web site). They have a good warranty, return policy and material on their web site including instructions, videos, demos, etc. They also have a US address and phone number to reach them. So I'm seriously thinking about taking a chance and buying their digital slim bi-xenon kit. It's hard to beat all that for $86.99 including a relay harness and shipping. Anyone have any specifc information regarding this company or their products? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FricFrac Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 So here's a shot of the output from my Autopal MSR H4 housings. I think it looks pretty good, so it seems like a good potential candidate for an HID kit. Vvme sounds like a reputable company with good engineered products (of course, this is solely based on investigating their web site). They have a good warranty, return policy and material on their web site including instructions, videos, demos, etc. They also have a US address and phone number to reach them. So I'm seriously thinking about taking a chance and buying their digital slim bi-xenon kit. It's hard to beat all that for $86.99 including a relay harness and shipping. Anyone have any specifc information regarding this company or their products? The top cutoff is the main thing and it looks good. There is some splatter but I would definately try these out with the HID kit you were looking at. At the price it might be a great candidate and we won't know for sure until someone tries it! Its less than half the price of the Alumina setup so if it works then you are helping others save some serious cash that can go towards a V8 swap instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens1088 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Dang $86.99 for digital slims and bixenon is a pretty good deal. Make sure they aren't made in china. Their cheap ballasts and bulbs are TERRIBLE. If anyone is interested in retrofitting, I have some hq H4 projectors. Nicely cut patterns and the high/low mechanism is built into the projector (no need for the bulb to actually move and change focus). PM me if you have any questions. $140 shipped. I have one set right now and should have some in stock by the end of the month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddjob Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 So here's a shot of the output from my Autopal MSR H4 housings. I think it looks pretty good, so it seems like a good potential candidate for an HID kit. Vvme sounds like a reputable company with good engineered products (of course, this is solely based on investigating their web site). They have a good warranty, return policy and material on their web site including instructions, videos, demos, etc. They also have a US address and phone number to reach them. So I'm seriously thinking about taking a chance and buying their digital slim bi-xenon kit. It's hard to beat all that for $86.99 including a relay harness and shipping. Anyone have any specifc information regarding this company or their products? If you like the output of your present envelopes, then go for it. If Vvme will take the conversions back, the trial costs you nothing. The output pattern of your envelope will not change based on a change of light source, as long as the new source is well made, ie, the arc is exactly at the focal point of the reflector. If the pattern changes for the worse, or scatter increases significantly, send them back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Dang $86.99 for digital slims and bixenon is a pretty good deal. Make sure they aren't made in china. Their cheap ballasts and bulbs are TERRIBLE.... Well they do have a China address as well - but here's what they say on their web site regarding quality: Our company focuses on producing HID Kits, which are JAPAN OEM, we do lots of OEM orders for famous brands. In fact many HID Kits have a label "Made in Japan/Germany" are all made by our factory. As we sell over 10000 Kits per month, so the quality of our product is very good and guaranteed, you will get warrantee for 14 months. So be confident with our products. We printed "MADE IN JAPAN" on our HID Kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens1088 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 In fact many HID Kits have a label "Made in Japan/Germany" are all made by our factory. This is the only line that REALLY concerns me. I deal with this customs stuff all the time and it is actually very very very very very illegal to say MADE IN JAPAN/GERMANY when in fact it is made in China. If you guys can walk away with one thing, its that some (not all) Chinese companies will do and say anything for your $$. This could be a very reputable company with good stuff. But the "made in Japan/Germany" claim makes me VERY concerned. I would ask who they OEM for. Look up the brands and lights and see what people say about them before you purchase them. Better safe then sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Well I guess I'm the guinea pig...I went ahead and placed an order. I'll update this thread with the results. Maybe I'll pretend like I'm Big Phil and make a video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 This is the kit I'm using, but I bought my own Phillips 50w "FatBoy" bulbs, and I'm using the Acura TL projector housings. http://www.retrosolutionsllc.com/servlet/the-295/HID-BALLAST-XENON-CONVERSION/Detail I use these on my Fathers car (Merc Marquies) http://www.ddmtuning.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=85&pg=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FricFrac Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 There is a common misconception that Made in China = junk. Yes there is lots of junk made there but a lot of the stuff you buy if its not completely made there the guts or components are. That includes stuff made in Japan/Germany/USA, etc. Like it or not China is the World's manufacture - that's what they've set themselves up to do. When you have something made in China the person building the product chooses what level of quality they want to pay for so most choose cheap over quality because that's what the consumer demands. It has nothing to do with "made in China" but what the designer/distributor want's to pay. It wasn't too long ago that everything that came from Japan was absolute garbage. Now if you want to have a high quality part machined you send it to Germany and if its of the highest quality it goes to Japan to be manufactured. So while price doesn't determine quality it does point you in the general area.... however there are bargins to be found and at $90 it shouldn't keep anyone from missing a mortgage payment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens1088 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 There is a common misconception that Made in China = junk. Yes there is lots of junk made there but a lot of the stuff you buy if its not completely made there the guts or components are. That includes stuff made in Japan/Germany/USA, etc. Like it or not China is the World's manufacture - that's what they've set themselves up to do. When you have something made in China the person building the product chooses what level of quality they want to pay for so most choose cheap over quality because that's what the consumer demands. It has nothing to do with "made in China" but what the designer/distributor want's to pay. It wasn't too long ago that everything that came from Japan was absolute garbage. Now if you want to have a high quality part machined you send it to Germany and if its of the highest quality it goes to Japan to be manufactured. So while price doesn't determine quality it does point you in the general area.... however there are bargins to be found and at $90 it shouldn't keep anyone from missing a mortgage payment I understand. What I am trying to say that right off the bat they are making a claim which is unethical and a lie. From my experience... once I see or sniff out a lie, I AUTOMATICALLY move to the next company. The last thing I want to do is deal with anyone that isn't honest. China is absolutely the worlds #1 manufacture. I deal with roughly 60 manufactures from China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Indonesia, Japan each year and import 15-20 40 foot containers annually into the states. A product with components from Japan or Germany and is assembled in China still cannot say Made in Japan/Germany. If you have never dealt with Chinese manufactures then you guys have the slightest idea of the shi* they pull and say to earn a buck. No joke. Sorry if I am being harsh. It's an unspoken truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FricFrac Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 This is the kit I'm using, but I bought my own Phillips 50w "FatBoy" bulbs, and I'm using the Acura TL projector housings.http://www.retrosolutionsllc.com/servlet/the-295/HID-BALLAST-XENON-CONVERSION/Detail I use these on my Fathers car (Merc Marquies) http://www.ddmtuning.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=85&pg=1 I like the looks of both of those ballast. They look to be a slim digital style an sealed with waterproof connectors. I've seen some nasty sheet metal huge enclosures for ballast - a sure warning sign of cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FricFrac Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 I understand. What I am trying to say that right off the bat they are making a claim which is unethical and a lie. From my experience... once I see or sniff out a lie, I AUTOMATICALLY move to the next company. The last thing I want to do is deal with anyone that isn't honest. China is absolutely the worlds #1 manufacture. I deal with roughly 60 manufactures from China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Indonesia, Japan each year and import 15-20 40 foot containers annually into the states. A product with components from Japan or Germany and is assembled in China still cannot say Made in Japan/Germany. If you have never dealt with Chinese manufactures then you guys have the slightest idea of the shi* they pull and say to earn a buck. No joke. Sorry if I am being harsh. It's an unspoken truth. Agreed. I've dealt with getting product manufactured in China as well. Its like dealing with businesses anywhere - you have to sift through the BS to find the guys you want to deal with.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project Z Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 This is the only line that REALLY concerns me. I deal with this customs stuff all the time and it is actually very very very very very illegal to say MADE IN JAPAN/GERMANY when in fact it is made in China. If you guys can walk away with one thing, its that some (not all) Chinese companies will do and say anything for your $$. This could be a very reputable company with good stuff. But the "made in Japan/Germany" claim makes me VERY concerned. I second that. This falls under the Fair Packaging & Labeling Act 16 CFR 500 which states that the following information should be legibly marked: Distributor's name, trademark or other means of identification of the manufacturer or packer. Product Identification Net quanitity of the contents in terms of weight, measure or numerical count (Metric & US Standard) or a combination so as to give accurate information and facilitate value comparison by the consumer. Also Country of Origin Marking 19 CFR 134 which states: That product shall indicate country of origin legibly, permanently, and in comparable size and close proximity to any mention of country other than country in which the article was manufactured or produced. Must be visible at point of purchase. I also agree with Fric Frac that calling out Chinese made items as "crap" to be highly offensive and unfair. I work in the Retail Industry and most of my suppliers are in China. I have seen and tested products that are made from China, Germany, Japan, Philippines, Vietnam, US, Canada, Brazil and India and no matter where it came from, they were either good or bad. Bad because some manufacturers cut corners on material and process or hire poor help which in term produces very poorly made items. China has great products. It's the manufacturers that decide to cut so much on cost that are to blame. And if you were Chinese, wouldn't you take offense that products made from your country being called "cheap and unreliable"? I'm not Chinese by the way, just expressing my opinion on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens1088 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I also agree with Fric Frac that calling out Chinese made items as "crap" to be highly offensive and unfair. I work in the Retail Industry and most of my suppliers are in China. I have seen and tested products that are made from China, Germany, Japan, Philippines, Vietnam, US, Canada, Brazil and India and no matter where it came from, they were either good or bad. Bad because some manufacturers cut corners on material and process or hire poor help which in term produces very poorly made items. China has great products. It's the manufacturers that decide to cut so much on cost that are to blame. And if you were Chinese, wouldn't you take offense that products made from your country being called "cheap and unreliable"? I'm not Chinese by the way, just expressing my opinion on the matter. Very well put. (I am part Taiwanese ) so I am a bit bias. I am glad there are lots of people here with experience. I just wanted to shed some light on it. Most people haven't really dealt with other countries and are used to buying items off the shelf. It's a shame how the small percentage of manufactures that do cut corners can hurt the reputation for the rest of them. All in all... good thread tangent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project Z Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I'm just tired of hearing the public call most of the products coming from China as crap when 95% of the stuff they own and use everyday is from China. Back to the subject, I think Autopal's factories are both in Japan and Germany but their Distribution Center is in China. Most of our products are made everywhere else but our Distribution Centers are in the US. Both have to be called out on the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardBlack Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Agreed. I've dealt with getting product manufactured in China as well. Its like dealing with businesses anywhere - you have to sift through the BS to find the guys you want to deal with.... Are you posting a technical thread (since it's in the tech section) or are you trying to turn it into a rally cry for your political views? I suggest if you want to get it TS'd keep going; they adhere to the rules pretty closely. You had a good thread going... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted October 10, 2009 Administrators Share Posted October 10, 2009 Lets get back to the technical side of this discussion, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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