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Mikez31ss

240z electronic ignition help

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Ok...it's running! :cheers:

I'll be back later with some questions on something though :confused:

 

later it is ;)

Alright...like I said it runs now :D

The guy across the street came over to hear it running. He is a semi-retired mechanic. He said it sounds like the dizzy is one tooth off. I don't know if I buy that. The car has a performance cam, it hasn't ran in months, and it wasn't warmed up good. And the carbs may need to be synced. I think that is what he heard. Before I did the swap I took the car in for a safety inspection. On the drive home I revved the engine and dropped the clutch and it smoked the tires. I don't think the car would have that much power if the oil pump shaft wasn't lined up causing the timing to be off, would it? Not that the car is seriously powerful anyway lol.

I wouldn't know how to check if it is off without removing the oil pump. That seems like a lot of work just on the basis of someone's opinion given the circumstances. Any thoughts on that?

Also a couple of times when I drove before the dizzy swap I thought I saw a wisp of smoke near the left headlight. I tried to figure out what it was but I couldn't get it to happen when I tried. I couldn't think of anything there that would smoke so I decided it was overactive imagination. Today when it started I noticed a little smoke and it was steady so I was able to see that it was coming from a braided hose coming off the motor. The other end of the hose is open to atmosphere. We decided that it's blowby. The neighbor thinks the piston rings are probably sticking from the car sitting for so long. He thinks that if I take the car out and run it that the rings will reseat and seal normally. I think he may be right. I hope so. Was that hose connected to something in factory configuration? I'll post a couple of pics at the bottom.

Now I need to set the timing. I think around 8-10 degrees? I'll go back and check. I guess it's time to do the carbs after that. I may make another thread with pics of the parts in the kit and pics of the carbs and see if anybody will ID the parts and give some pointers on installing them so I don't open anything up that doesn't need to be opened up.

After that I need to figure out why the tach doesn't work. I would guess it won't work without getting signal from the negative side of the coil?

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07-11-10_002.jpg

Edited by Mikez31ss

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Congrats, well done! :)

 

Distributor "one tooth off", that would have the same effect as being not properly set to the correct static timing. Your engine needs to settle in and the timing is not set yet, so no worries here.

 

Timing, 10º should be good. Let the engine warm up (stay below 2-2.5K), then set the timing to 10º using the strobe light. Do a test drive and also check if the engine pings on load but you should be good with that setting. Should be no problem to go up to 15º static advance with out the vacuum connected (i assume that you ignore the vacuum advance with your weber setup). Max advance should be 36º-38º at 2000-3000 RPM, you could check that with a variable timing light if you can borrow one.

 

I cant make out where the tube comes from in the photo but crankcase blowby sounds quite likely, the smoke should vanish after some hours of (gentle) driving when the engine has settled in again after the long rest.

 

 

Regarding the tach, you have a four wire tach where one side of the coil runs through a small loop at the back of the tach. So...

 


  •  
  • When you remove the four pin connector from the tach, does the car still start? (It shouldnt) Then we need to take a look at the wiring.
  • If the car does not start with the connector removed, the wiring appears to be correct. Then remove the tach and check out the white wire loop. It runs through a white piece of plastic which is fixed by a small metal clamp. Make sure that the small metal clamp is not bend and connects to the small metal counterpart on each side.
  • While you at it, also make sure that you can measure +12V between the black and red/yellow wire at the back of the tach while connected to the car wiring and with the ignition on

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Edited by vantage

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That hose looks like the one for the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system. It should be plugged into the PCV valve. I see that your running triples and don't have a PCV valve so you can route the hose into a catch-can. Not the best solution but it should work.

Edited by Leon

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That hose looks like the one for the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system. It should be plugged into the PCV valve. I see that your running triples and don't have a PCV valve so you can route the hose into a catch-can. Not the best solution but it should work.

I think you're right Leon. I first thought it went to the air pump which was removed long ago.

What would be a good solution? Route it into the intake somehow?

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I have triples as well that I will be installing and I was thinking of using the hole in the intake that's provisioned for the vacuum advance for the PCV instead. I don't know how many vacuum provisions you have in your intake, but I have one for the brake booster and one for vacuum advance. I won't be using the vac advance (I'm using the ZX dizzy for my 240Z as well) so I figured that tap is good for something. I'll have to check the threading of the PCV valve and see if I can screw it into the manifold. If not, it can probably be connected in between two lines with one routed to the block and the other to the intake manifold.

 

Like I said, the catch can is your other solution.

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Adrian...the timing was at 20degrees. Now it's a shade under 10. No pinging. Matter of fact it seems way rich. It seems good other than the hellacious lope and a little smoke. The vac advance is capped.

My car will start with the white connector unplugged. Bad news I guess. There is 11v between the black and the red/yellow. I never get 12v at any connection. Maybe my meter is off.

The white wire loop looks great. No corrosion or bent parts. I can't see anything wrong with it.

 

Leon...I've only got the brake booster port. When I remove the carbs I could probably drill a port in the manifold. Looks like a boss is there on #2. Is it a good idea to run that hose into just one cylinder? I guess if the blowby clears up it wouldn't make much difference.

 

I have a catch can left over from my 300zx cars but it's a pretty janky part.

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post-7958-047371600 1279771893_thumb.jpg

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My car will start with the white connector unplugged. Bad news I guess. There is 11v between the black and the red/yellow. I never get 12v at any connection. Maybe my meter is off.

The white wire loop looks great. No corrosion or bent parts. I can't see anything wrong with it.

I think this is good news as your tach might still be functional ;) Voltage between black and red/yellow is good, so your tach receives power!

 

  • Measure the green/white wire on the connector to which the tach is connected and ground, do you see ~12V?
  • Please check which wire color is connected to the Ignition coil (+) terminal (should be black/white)
  • Also, is there an disconnected black/white or green/white wire next to the coil/ballast somewhere?
     

Regarding your meter, do you get 12,5V when you measure the battery while the engine is idling?

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Hey Adrian...how are you doing? Hard to believe this thread is so old :blink:

 

I found three wires in the harness cut and taped up near the coil.

Green... for the noise suppression capacitor?

Green & white...must have been for the ballast resistor.

Black & yellow... Has 12 volts with the key in "run". With the key off it has continuity with the green & white wire.

 

A shorter black & white wire w/ a female connector was hanging loose. No power.

A longer black & wire wire was connected to the coil positive. 12 volts.

A black wire was connected to the coil negative.

 

One thing that I'm curious about is the way the coil was wired when I got the car.

There was no ballast resistor so the resistor wasn't shorted obviously but the wires that should have been connected to the resistor weren't connected together.

And the coil was a "use with ballast resistor" type.

I'll check the green/white wire on the connecter later.

 

----------------

Now playing: Supertramp - Goodbye Stranger

via FoxyTunes

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We're probably in the top 5.

* Also, is there an disconnected black/white or green/white wire next to the coil/ballast somewhere?

In case you missed it in my last reply there is both along with a green wire. None had voltage. Maybe they don't need voltage? Maybe connecting one of them to the coil negative would supply a signal to the tach?

If you remember there was also a black/yellow with 12v ignition on. I used that for the efan controller.

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Leon...I've only got the brake booster port. When I remove the carbs I could probably drill a port in the manifold. Looks like a boss is there on #2. Is it a good idea to run that hose into just one cylinder? I guess if the blowby clears up it wouldn't make much difference.

 

I have a catch can left over from my 300zx cars but it's a pretty janky part.

 

I don't think it should be a huge deal, that's where my other tapped hole is I believe. The hole would be close to the balance tube anyway, so I don't think the effect will be detrimental to performance, and likely to the contrary, be beneficial. It's what I'm planning to do with my triples, so hopefully it works fine that way.

 

 

You can use a Coke can as a catch can if you want to. No big deal there.

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From what you have posted about the wiring, my assumption would be this:

 

  • Green: was connected to Coil (+) and the capacitor (still connected to the capacitor?)
  • Green/White: was connected to left side of the ballast resistor, comes from the ignition start position and one side of the white tacho loop
  • Short Black/White with female connector: was connected to Coil (+), comes from the other side of the white tacho loop
  • Longer Black/White: was connected to right side of ballast resistor, comes from ignition run position (should be in a black cable sleeve, is it?)
  • Black: was connected to Coil (-), comes from the points/distributor.

Still unsure about black/yellow, this is not on my '72 240Z and not in the later wiring sheets.

 

You said that the Green/White wire has continuity with the Black/Yellow, so i suppose that the Black/Yellow is the same as the Black/White coming from the ignition key run position.

 

 

Ok, now you need to identify the correct Black/White wire coming from the tach connector:

 

  1. Remove the connector from the tach and use the meter in Resistance/Ohm/Ω setting
  2. Connect one test lead to the Black/White wire in the connector and the other one to the short Black/White wire with the female connector, if this is the right one you should see 0-2 Ohm. If not check out the long Black/White wire instead.

If you found the correct Black/White wire, then reconnect the tacho to the tacho connector and measure the Black/White wire in the engine compartment against ground. It should show the same voltage as the Green/White wire, about 12V if the ignition switch is in the run position, and no voltage, if the ignition switch is off.

 

If so, then connect the Black/White wire you have just identified to Coil (+), instead of the current +12V supply wire. This should do the trick, you should now get +12V via the tacho loop to the coil and E12-80 ignition module.

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From what you have posted about the wiring, my assumption would be this:

 

  • Green: was connected to Coil (+) and the capacitor (still connected to the capacitor?)
  • Green/White: was connected to left side of the ballast resistor, comes from the ignition start position and one side of the white tacho loop
  • Short Black/White with female connector: was connected to Coil (+), comes from the other side of the white tacho loop
  • Longer Black/White: was connected to right side of ballast resistor, comes from ignition run position (should be in a black cable sleeve, is it?)
  • Black: was connected to Coil (-), comes from the points/distributor.

Still unsure about black/yellow, this is not on my '72 240Z and not in the later wiring sheets.

The green wire was cut and taped up (with the green/white and black/yellow)...it wasn't connected to the noise suppression condenser. There was no condenser.

You said that the Green/White wire has continuity with the Black/Yellow, so i suppose that the Black/Yellow is the same as the Black/White coming from the ignition key run position.

There is no black/yellow wire shown in the factory diagram so everything about that wire would have to be a guess. It was a 12v ignition on wire and I cut it on the passenger side of the harness and used it for my efan controller "ignition on" source.

Ok, now you need to identify the correct Black/White wire coming from the tach connector:

 

  1. Remove the connector from the tach and use the meter in Resistance/Ohm/Ω setting
  2. Connect one test lead to the Black/White wire in the connector and the other one to the short Black/White wire with the female connector, if this is the right one you should see 0-2 Ohm. If not check out the long Black/White wire instead.

If you found the correct Black/White wire, then reconnect the tacho to the tacho connector and measure the Black/White wire in the engine compartment against ground. It should show the same voltage as the Green/White wire, about 12V if the ignition switch is in the run position, and no voltage, if the ignition switch is off.

 

If so, then connect the Black/White wire you have just identified to Coil (+), instead of the current +12V supply wire. This should do the trick, you should now get +12V via the tacho loop to the coil and E12-80 ignition module.

I'm not following you there Adrian. There is only one black/white wire in the coil area w/ 12v. The longer b/w with the black cable sleeve. The shorter one has no power at any time.

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Hi Mike,

 

the black/white wire connected to the coil with the black cable sleeve comes from the ignition key 'run' position, so the shorter black/white one with the female connector is most probably the one we are looking for!

 

Here is a quick and simple test: put the meter in resistance mode and connect one probe to the green/white wire (currently taped) and the other one to the short black/white with the female connector.

With the tacho connected you should see 0-2 Ohm. If you now disconnect the tacho connector behind the dashboard, you should see infinite (e.g. no) resistance.

 

If thats the case you have identified both wires coming from the tacho loop! Let me know how this works out, then we can continue to wire up the tach.

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You can also use your test light:

 

Make sure that the tacho is connector to the tacho, switch on the ignition power and

 

1. Connect the test light to ground and (taped) green, it should not light up (if it does, skip the other tests)

2. Connect the test light to ground and black/white, it should not light up (if it does, skip the other tests)

3. Connect black/white to ground. Connect one side of the test light to battery (+), the other side to the green wire -> the test light should light up

4. Remove the tacho connector from the tacho and repeat 3 -> the test light should not light up

 

If 3. & 4. are positive, you have identified the tacho wiring :)

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You can also use your test light:

 

Make sure that the tacho is connector to the tacho, switch on the ignition power and

 

1. Connect the test light to ground and (taped) green, it should not light up (if it does, skip the other tests)

2. Connect the test light to ground and black/white, it should not light up (if it does, skip the other tests)

3. Connect black/white to ground. Connect one side of the test light to battery (+), the other side to the green wire -> the test light should light up

4. Remove the tacho connector from the tacho and repeat 3 -> the test light should not light up

 

If 3. & 4. are positive, you have identified the tacho wiring :)

A friend just dropped off his Fluke DVM. Yes...he is a good friend lol.

I'll see if I can take a break from the carbs long enough to check this out. I'm rebuilding/refreshing the Webers.

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Hi Mike,

 

the black/white wire connected to the coil with the black cable sleeve comes from the ignition key 'run' position, so the shorter black/white one with the female connector is most probably the one we are looking for!

 

Here is a quick and simple test: put the meter in resistance mode and connect one probe to the green/white wire (currently taped) and the other one to the short black/white with the female connector.

With the tacho connected you should see 0-2 Ohm. If you now disconnect the tacho connector behind the dashboard, you should see infinite (e.g. no) resistance.

 

If thats the case you have identified both wires coming from the tacho loop! Let me know how this works out, then we can continue to wire up the tach.

The meter displays OL.

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O.L means the wires are not connected (infinitive resistance). Ok, now we need to check which of the two wire is not connected through the tach loop.

 

Please disconnect the tacho connector from the tacho. The tacho connector has a green, green/white, black, and black/white wire.

 

  1. Measure the resistance by holding one probe to the (previously taped) green/white wire in the engine room and the other one to the tacho connector pin connected to the green/white wire. If you don't see O.L, then this is the correct green wire to connect to +12V from the ignition key.
     
  2. Repeat procedure for the black/white wire by holding one probe to the black/white wire with the female connector and the other one to the tacho connector pin with the black/white. If you don't see O.L, then this is the correct green wire to connect to the coil's (+) terminal.

 

Good luck,

Adrian

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O.L means the wires are not connected (infinitive resistance). Ok, now we need to check which of the two wire is not connected through the tach loop.

 

Please disconnect the tacho connector from the tacho. The tacho connector has a green, green/white, black, and black/white wire.

 

  1. Measure the resistance by holding one probe to the (previously taped) green/white wire in the engine room and the other one to the tacho connector pin connected to the green/white wire. If you don't see O.L, then this is the correct green wire to connect to +12V from the ignition key.
     
  2. Repeat procedure for the black/white wire by holding one probe to the black/white wire with the female connector and the other one to the tacho connector pin with the black/white. If you don't see O.L, then this is the correct green wire to connect to the coil's (+) terminal.

 

Good luck,

Adrian

Oops, the tach wasn't plugged in. There is .2 between the g/w and b/w in the engine bay. Also .2 between the g/w in the engine bay and g/w at the harness connector.

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Ok, you have identified the two missing wires for the tacho setup.

 

Remove the wire currently supplying +12 Volt to the coil (+) terminal and connect it to the black/white wire with the female connector instead.

Connect the (previously taped) green/white wire to coil (+) and your tacho should be active again! (if its plugged in ;) )

 

Good luck,

Adrian

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