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Stuck diff, stuck halfshaft


Geking

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I have to come out and admit it, I screwed up.

I installed an OBX H LSD in my R200, and a few problems have come up because of this.

 

First problem was the pinion shaft became hard to turn, and if the car was driven on this, the diff would heat up. (only drove it once)

 

So decided to pull the diff back out and take a look. The problem is, I have broken a screwdriver and a crowbar trying to pull my halfshaft out. I even tied it to a Pontiac Aztec and used a come along. I ended up pulling the 4 wheel drive SUV in park.

 

Am I stuck, do I have to buy a new r200 or do something as extreme as cutting the half shaft off then grinding it down, then buying a new OBX carrier gear?

 

Thanks.

 

Rob

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Wow :blink:

 

Can you give any more information about the install?

 

How were you pulling the half shaft with the come along?

 

Did you install the diff yourself, as well as the circlips? Did you flip the gears, or modify it at all?

 

I snapped an axle at the drag strip a couple of weeks ago, mine didn't want to come out, so I just took the shaft off the side stub.

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I'm not so sure I understand either. The stub shaft won't come out of the diff? Or the halfshaft won't come out of the car after un-bolting the 8 bolts?

 

If it's the latter than the obvious response would be to disassemble the suspension components.

Edited by LowCarbZ
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Sorry, the stub shaft will not come out, I did install the circlips, but one might have goten a little bent in the install, maby that is what is giving me a hard time. When I pulled with the come along I had the dif to the Pontiac and the Ujoint where the stub axel is to the come along (to a buick)

 

Right now I have the diff and the driver's stubaxel with the halfshaft attached out of the car and on the ground. I did have to completly let the drivers LCA out and loosen the 3 upper strut nuts to let the suspention swing out of the way.

 

Thanks guys.

 

EDIT-yes, I flipped the gears/replaced the washers in the diff per Trumpet's writeup. I did put the circlips on the inside part of the gear, sio I got the right gears flipped the right way on the right side.

 

I am in Burke/Springfield on Burke Center Parkway/Lee Chapel.

Edited by Geking
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Well, if your pinion is giving you issues, then the shop [or whoever set the backlash] did something wrong. The pinion only moves against the ring gear. The R&P should be stock components, and unrelated to the LSD carrier.

*Disclaimer*

[This is information based off of my minute understanding of how a diff works, you might want JMort or someone else to chime in, but that's my initial reaction to the issue]

 

Was the diff working before you put the HLSD carrier in?

 

And you never said if you did the entire install yourself or if a shop helped.

 

I had a shop swap my carrier bearings, install the ring gear with washer sleeves, and set the backlash.

 

Stupid question, but did you put oil in it? B)

Edited by flatblack280
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Well, if your pinion is giving you issues, then the shop [or whoever set the backlash] did something wrong. The pinion only moves against the ring gear. The R&P should be stock components, and unrelated to the LSD carrier.

*Disclaimer*

[This is information based off of my minute understanding of how a diff works, you might want JMort or someone else to chime in, but that's my initial reaction to the issue]

You got it partially right. Setting the backlash shouldn't make the pinion hard to turn, unless the ring gear is actually loaded against the pinion. There is no reason at all to screw with the pinion when installing the LSD. Just set the backlash and that's it.

 

As far as the axles go, that sounds like a tough one. I don't know if this is possible with the OBX, but with some diffs you can pull the axle out of one side and look through and see the inside face of the axle on the opposite side. If that is the case here, maybe you can use an air hammer or a brass drift and BFH to beat it out from the inside.

Edited by JMortensen
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No, I botched it all by my self.

 

I later tied it between 2 cars and gave it quite a good jank that way. I can bash at it through the center of the washers. My thought is: the ring gear is not seated properly on the carrier and thus is giving friction on some turns. At other points of the axel rotation it spins smoothly.

 

Yes I put oil in it, and the oil I drained out was black and burnt after only 7 miles. Goodness burned trans oil makes normal trans oil look like perfume.

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No, I botched it all by my self.

 

I later tied it between 2 cars and gave it quite a good jank that way. I can bash at it through the center of the washers. My thought is: the ring gear is not seated properly on the carrier and thus is giving friction on some turns. At other points of the axle rotation it spins smoothly.

 

Hmmm... I am glad I went with the washer sleeves. I guess you didn't buy those? Chris didn't either, and he is having some 'noises.' I'm not saying that not having those is the issue, but my install has gone flawlessly [At ~500 miles, a trip to the drag strip, and 6 runs at an autocross on Sunday].

 

Maybe you should install the washer sleeves and see if that fixes it?

 

http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?partnum=6679K14

 

As far as the stub axle, I'd try to bang it out through the washers if you can get a drift in there like they said.

 

Thanks for the clarification, Jmort!

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Update, I spun the shaft while tapping it with a hammer to reseat the circlip. Then, using my biggest hammer the stub axle came out.

 

Now to address the cause of the issue.

 

I can not get the diff to spin freely if i tighten up the driver's side carrier cap. This could be caused by a backlash issue, as I do not know how to check that, I think I need a magnetic based gauge, like in

I have absolutely no play in the gears as I tighten it up, so I guess that could be my problem.

 

Thanks in advance for your ideas.

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I can not get the diff to spin freely if i tighten up the driver's side carrier cap. This could be caused by a backlash issue, as I do not know how to check that, I think I need a magnetic based gauge, like in

I have absolutely no play in the gears as I tighten it up, so I guess that could be my problem.

 

Are you talking about play in the ring and pinion gears? [Please be specific when describing your problems ;)]

 

Setting the backlash shouldn't make the pinion hard to turn, unless the ring gear is actually loaded against the pinion

 

IMO, It might be best to bite the bullet and let the shop handle it if you don't have the proper tools.

Edited by flatblack280
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Are you talking about play in the ring and pinion gears? [Please be specific when describing your problems ;)]

 

 

 

IMO, It might be best to bite the bullet and let the shop handle it if you don't have the proper tools.

 

Yes, I played with it some more. I swapped the driver's and passenger side spacers leaving the large spacer on the passenger's side. This allowed the pinion and ring gears to turn a little better as this moved the ring gear .08 mm to the driver's side, as I really do think the pinion and ring gears are binding due to being loaded.

 

Oh, I agree on the shop Flat Black. My plan is spend under $50 in tools/spacers, do it as well as I can, then even if I think I have it right, get a shop to check it out. I won't learn if I don't stick with it.

 

Please excuse my noobishness in this area, as I have not rebuilt a motor, trans or diff before. (essentially anything requiring precise measurements)

 

EDIT: by spacers I mean carrier shims.

Edited by Geking
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Oh, I agree on the shop Flat Black. My plan is spend under $50 in tools/spacers, do it as well as I can, then even if I think I have it right, get a shop to check it out. I won't learn if I don't stick with it.

 

I posted up the torque and backlash specs from the FSM in TR's OBX install thread, you might want to check those out.

 

The $100 for the shop to shim/set the backlash was worth it for me not having to pull my diff again :P

Edited by flatblack280
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Was there metal shavings on the magnet when you pulled it apart the last time?(assuming you cleaned the magnet when you took it apart the first time)

 

If there was metal, you may have destroyed the R&P. Get someone with experiance to take a look at it.

 

For what it's worth, A diff is kind of an advanced project for a novice.

 

Mongo

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My plan is spend under $50 in tools/spacers, do it as well as I can, then even if I think I have it right, get a shop to check it out. I won't learn if I don't stick with it.

 

Just wanted to say I like this attitude. Only way you'll really learn if no one knowledgeable is around to show you. Good on ya for sticking with it.

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If the thing was really getting hot I would be worried about the condition of the ring and pinion. Seeing as how a used R200 usually runs about $100 to $150, I'd be inclined to find another diff and put your LSD in that one. You can use the post in the FAQ section about installing an LSD into an open diff. It's not a tough job. Things get a lot harder when you have to screw with the pinion depth and preload.

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Thanks guys, Lowcarbz, I am not a car noob, just the first time doing something like this.

I guess I could get a new diff, but I think it would sit as a spare. I do not think that there is anything wrong with my current ring and pinion gear set as they do not show any wear, no extra shiney parts. I did not wipe all the old oil out the first time round, i only got a little magnetic sludge on the plug. If you guys want I can take a closeup picture of the gears.

 

What do I have to lose by trying to shim it myself besides the time? Especialy if I am getting suggestions to buy a new R200. Besides, if I have messed the diff up beyond the point of repair, all I am doing is learning for the next diff, so I don't mess up the new one if I need to do work on it.

 

In short, I work on my car to unwind after a long work day, so I don't mind doing things like pulling the diff. I have spent more time working on the car than driving it, it is a hobby to me, not a project.

 

Jmort, I followed the guide in the FAQ. I read in that thread that the backlash realy does not change, so I ignored the 2 steps about that. Boy what a mistake.

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Jmort, I followed the guide in the FAQ. I read in that thread that the backlash realy does not change, so I ignored the 2 steps about that. Boy what a mistake.

Ouch. Well I added a post in that thread that the backlash doesn't usually change with Nissan LSDs and that you should check it regardless. Too late for you, but might help the next guy. Sorry about that.

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