Guest bluex_v1 Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 Let me first say I've never owned a z before, or any performance car for that matter. I have a brother that owned a 260 a while ago. I liked it, but it never did run right and he ended up selling it. I stumbled upon some v8 fiero sites a year or so ago and got to thinking..what about a Z...I wonder if anyone has ever done that swap? --yeah, haha After several months of casual searching for a cheap z to buy with money I don't really have, I finally found a 260 in TX...it has a good body and an ok motor, but the interior is not good, and the wiring is supposedly a real mess. I'm going out to get it this weekend! I'm also going to get a 302 out of a '70 Bronco for dirt cheap (has the double sump pan) on the same trip. My goals are: It needs to be relatively low cost. (I can realistically only put about $500 a month into this build up right now) It needs to be as reliable (or easily fixable by an amateur mechanic) for me to make my daily driver. I don't care how it looks (yet). I would like to get ~15 mpg or better...but this is not necessary if I can save money elsewhere for now. Under the above parameters, I would like for it's performance to be on par with a stock 5.0 mustang on the street...I don't care about top speed (yet), but do want it to go and stop relatively quickly and take the turns reasonably well. I've decided to go with a Ford swap because that is what I am familiar with (I have many hours into my modified early Bronco already) and have some spare parts. I like the idea of having two vehicles with such engine commonality. I'm pretty sure I have access to enough free and/or cheap ford stuff, that that alone outweighs the benefit of the easier chevy install for me. I think I'm competent enough to make mounts and modify what I need to with a minimum expenditure. I will have two transmissions at my disposal..one is a 3-speed Tremec RAN or Tremec RAT (I think)column shift from a '70 Bronco, the other is a 3-speed from a '68 289 Cougar..anyone know what the Cougar peice is and if I might be able to use it? I know the Bronco 3-speed is shorter than a T-5, but maybe I can buy or rig something to come rearward and up through the Z shifter hole to actuate the column shift interface on it...any ideas? This is where I could use some experienced guidance (well, I could use it everywhere, but here is where I request it). I don't really know what is going to be the best cost/benefit plan in the long run out of the two options I see most clearly for me: #1. Get the wiring rigged to at least be street legal and fire safe..even if it requires manual switching of all kinds of crap. I believe the 302 to be in good shape, so I'd likely get away with bearings and honing, put in a mild cam, maybe a performer intake and some minor home head work (probably mostly consisting of grinding out the thermactor bumps), use a carb, bolt it up to one of the 3-speeds, do the pulling slave cylinder clutch setup, slap some junkyard manifolds on it and get it on the road and hope the r180 doesn't detonate. #2. Save up and look for a donor '89-'93 mustang with a 5-speed, build it up for ~300 rwhp, (I'm gleaning info from corral.net now for what this would entail) swap as much of the electrical as I can, including ignition switch, turn signals, etc if I can get them to mate, do the same clutch setup, and either an LSD R200 or R230. ..you know, basically build it exactly as I think I want it to be. I'm torn between 'just get it driving and feel it out before you put too much work into something that you don't need as much as something else' and 'be patient and build it up like you want it so you don't waste time with something you don't want or need'. Today I lean toward thinking it would be smarter to just go carbed and drive the thing so I can figure out if I really do need more power, or if it would be better to get brakes, suspension mods, etc...tomorrow I'll probably be leaning the other way. So if any of you can help me learn from your successes and mistakes, I'd appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 I'ld caution you about your car you are about to buy. If the car is not in that great of shape-just be sure you dont pay too much for it. Z's, especially Z's that have been abused by previous owners (abuse = driving the car hard & never repairing anything if/when it needs it) tend to be real "Night-mares". When I was looking for the Z I currently have (funny enough-I went from Tx to Georgia to buy mine) I discovered that there were a lot of Clunkers...AKA: Z's with one leg in the salvage yard -vs- a good amount of Z's in fair condition and then there were very few that were in excellant condition. The surprising part is that the costs between the three classes were not that much: unless the "Perfect Car" truly was in pristine condition..then the price was way out there. The point I'm trying to make is that the "Excellant Condition" category wasnt that expensive. The Fair to Good Condition were priced "VERY REASONABLY". I'm attempting to make the point that if you plan on keeping this car-then in the long run it may actually be cheaper to save your Mad-Money for a few months....even three months; $1500 will get you a Decent Z that needs only cosmetics w/a good drivetrain. This means you could drive it while you save your money for the other stuff. Better yet, three months of saving @ $500 a month = $1500 could find you a Z whose body & interior are excellant yet the engine is shot. That would be the perfect scenario for you-since you'ld be putting in a V8 anyway. You really can find these cars in the $600 to $1500 range; you just have to have the money when the add is first posted-as they go fast. I'm just trying to caution you in not buying a "Bottomless-Pit (money pit) when a few months worth of saving can really get you that much better of a car....body wise, that is. I've been there-dont that w/previous cars; thinking that I can repair the body here-and-there, and in no time at all (Hah-that's a laugh) the car will be as good as new. Body problems and wiring problems are real nightmares & their costs (regardless if it is only time) increases monitarily at astronaumical rates. Find a car with a good body (faded paint is ok) but with a decent interior & where 80-90% of the wiring is functional-but maybe a shot engine/tranny-then go buy the car & have fun. A little patience can go a long way. I looked for a year before I found my car-from the original owner and they had all, I mean ALL the receipts....and I only paid $2200...not too bad IMHO. Just my .02 worth. Kevin (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 Good advice from Kevin's post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluex_v1 Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 I appreciate your input, and I have thought about that seriously...I may not be looking in the right places, but what I've seen locally here are the 6-10+k excellent/modified Zs, the 2-4k ones that are 95% functional daily drivers, and then there are the cars with thrashed bodies and interiors for $1000. I haven't seen much of anything lower than that. There are four main factors currently causing me to go for this car: 1. cost..it is $400 (+$250 or so in gas to get it)...and acutally it seems like all I've been seeing lately are '77-'78 280s (earlier than '77 is emissions exempt here, maybe people are wanting to hang onto those more now??) 2. I would want to strip out carpet, etc. to catch any rust forming even in a car that is in the $2000+ category. I also think I want to make a custom aluminum dash anyway, just because I like that look and don't like the gauge constraints on the Z...unless you use pods or something and then it becomes custom anyway. 3. from the pics I have seen, the body is excellent (I probably didn't stress this enough in my original description), and very little rust anywhere. It also has what looks to be a well installed sunroof, which is something I'd really like to have. 4. I've tangled with auto electric before, so I think I can handle that. (I don't mind spending the time there...its something I would want to go over in any old car at least to some extent) -that said, I'm pretty comfortable with the prospect of having to repair or replace mechnical items. I have plenty of time and I'm making an uneducated guess that I'll be able to fix a cheaper car up faster than I could save up to buy a better one. ...and I'd rather do tedious stuff like wiring and replacing door latches than face body work. So...honestly, I don't think I'm going to change my plans as far as the vehicle itself is concerned... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 Cant go wrong on a car w/a good body...for only $400 bucks. Good luck; and let the games begin. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluex_v1 Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 Since this is pretty much my first post here, let me make sure I'm not comming off as a smartass or something... Kevin, I did already learn what you are suggesting I avoid the hard way...I ended up selling my rusted to hell Bronco that I had already put a new motor, transmission, and xfer case in because the body was just mangled and I came to a point where I realized I'd be better off buying another one with a good body and modifying it..so I did and a lot of effort into the first one was wasted. I've weighed that stuff and think I'll do ok with this project. Sorry, I didn't want you guys to think I was just turning my nose up at your advice. But anyway, lest this thread be moved or removed on the basis of it having zero Ford content, any thoughts on a quick and easy carb setup vs. a longer and nicer EFI install? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 Get the car running and in a dependable state and then do modifications one at a time..and keep it running.. My project is in a shambles because I tore the car up doing every modification imaginable without being able to get the "bugs" out of the modifications.I got a ton of money in parts and a gutted shell. (and I am just itching to do rear discs to match the incomplete front upgrade etc etc etc etc etc etc)My second project will probably be done before my first project. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 Welcome, BlueX_v1! Sounds like you thought out your plan. I would go with #2 - 5.0 with 5 sp. A 3 speed will screem on the hyw, and drive you nuts. By the way where do you live in Atlanta? I'm in Gwinnett county. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluex_v1 Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 Well, I'm back...now the proud owner of a 260z! Its about what I expected, although it does run better than I thought it would, but the passenger side floor would probably disolve before your eyes if you sprayed some liquid wrench on it...oddly that seems to be the only really rusty place. I guess it was a case of battery acid corrosion leading to an inlet for road water. Tomahawk Z, I will print your post out and tape it to my toolboxes! I think my mantra for this will be something like "I must not change anything on the Z unless it can still drive me to work on Monday". I can see this snowballing very quickly into a 'I might as well install a vette IRS as long as I'm pulling the r180 out' sort of situation. Mike Kz, I live in Smyrna. Do you ever go to the GA Z club meetings or anything? (I've been there lurking in the parking lot before, but I don't remember seeing yours) I'd love to get an in person look at your install...it looks awesome in your pics. Anyway, after getting a look at the wiring and seeing and hearing how it runs, I'm not in such a rush to do the swap so I am looking pretty hard at doing the full deal 5.0 now. Anyone have any pointers on obtaining a good 5.0/5-speed donor vehicle? I did a search through this forum on "5.0" and pulled up most everything probably. I know 1st choice is going to be a '91..but any '89-'93 will do well. Are there any specific places to look? any luck with public repo/insurance auctions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 27, 2002 Share Posted August 27, 2002 Become a hunter for a donar vehicle.. classifieds, ad papers.. If you see something promising-- go up and knock on the door. Call the repo places and insurance companys. In Oregon you almost have to be a dealer to get in on the auctions.Do not get excited --keep looking and something special will come along at a good price.Let me tell you about my unfinished Tomahawk instant insanity project, the front and rear Tomahawk clips are under cover collecting spider webs,,, tomorrow I will be fiberglassing the bonded JCR full fender flares to the(3rd project) Origin convertible rear cap. The convertible cap and flared fenders are resting on the Tomahawk rear chassis for use as a fiber glass work table. The front of the Tomahawk chassis now has the (second project)250 GTO front clip resting on it( the GTO 250 clip fits perfect). I am also considering buying a running V8 zee for the GTO 250 coupe kit. Yes by all means: ONE THING AT A TIME. PS: Nate's Velo Rossa is here too "gettin modded" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 27, 2002 Share Posted August 27, 2002 Check your frame rails real good before you invest much into to it other than fixing its structural integrity. The frame rails sorta hook into that rusty floor and the added torque will not be taken well by rusty frame rails. Not trying to shoot down the plan, just don't want to see anyone getting hurt if it fails. My plan was similar but somewhere I lost my mind and put in a new engine and t56 and lost sight of what I had planned to do originally, build a driver. Whats the old joke, "when you up to your ass in alligators its hard to remember that you were trying to drain the swamp". These can be put together cheaply if your in no hurry and get the parts you need as cheaply as possible, but don't lose sight of your goal like I did and you'll have a sweet driver. Mine is actually ok outside of needing a better starter that doesn't have such issues when the car's hot (yes it even has a ford solenoid and it still heat soaks and doesn't want to start when hot). Outside of my fan motor going out recently and my mirror coming off in my hand the other day while trying to adjust it (cheap ass plastic mirrors) things are just hunky dory. Good luck to you. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 27, 2002 Share Posted August 27, 2002 Lone , the mirror came off in your hand? A few weeks ago we were road testing Nate's Velo Rossa and the hood came off at 30 mph while I was driving. I actually managed to catch it with my left hand but could only hold onto it momemtarily. Gee that fiberglass take some road rash. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 27, 2002 Share Posted August 27, 2002 Yeah, if it weren't for a string of bad luck it would have been comical. And just today, I'm riding the harley and well I guess after 4 years of mirrors vibrating, the left mirror stalk just sheared right off. WTF is it about me and mirrors lately, I didn't even bother to see if I broke it, I just couldn't handle the thought of 7 more years of this crap.. It does show you though that even a 3/8" steel rod if allowed to move back and forth for a period of time will fail, I guess its a good lesson for us, remember if something is not stable it can and will fail under continued movement. (I guess the mech engineers are going, yeah well DUH! ). Oh yeah, condolences on that hood, that would have made me go spare thats for sure, knowing how I am, I would have been tempted to then drive over it just to be sure it was dead. Of course Nate might have had a different opinion on that.. haha. (sorry Nate.. ). Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted August 27, 2002 Share Posted August 27, 2002 Originally posted by BlueX_v1: Mike Kz, I live in Smyrna. Do you ever go to the GA Z club meetings or anything? (I've been there lurking in the parking lot before, but I don't remember seeing yours) I'd love to get an in person look at your install...it looks awesome in your pics. I'm planning on going to the Sept meeting coming up. Are you going? If so I'll see you there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluex_v1 Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 Sure, I'll get out there. Are you going to be coming in your 327 240z? That car should be easy to spot. What time would you be there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 For sure I'll be bringing my car, unless it's raining. I'll be there around 6:30pm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 BlueX, contact Ft. Benning Info services and ask for the number to the "Lemon Lot". It's a parking lot behind the old main theatre that allows soldiers to park vehicles that are for sale. You might find a deal on a project car or 2nd car that a soldier is selling due to an overseas transfer. This helps you and puts a bit of money in a soldier's pocket. If I might suggest, avoid the '86 5.0L Mustang. It had weird heads that don't flow for squat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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