clint78z Posted April 23, 2001 Share Posted April 23, 2001 I am in the same boat as you, I have factory A/C on a 76 with bumper shocks and A/C lines get in the way. The only real room is on the turbo for the air cleaner. Underneath is not very good on a road car that can squish the pipe. I scratch my head and have not come up with anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 23, 2001 Share Posted April 23, 2001 I had an intercooler setup but removed it because i am going to put a/c in, and ill probably reinstall it once i get my a/c put in. I had my hose routed under my radiator support, and didnt cause me trouble at all. My cars also lowered about 2"s. Email me and i can send you pictures on my setup. Cya Guys Scott www.flex.net/~mgwilson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scala Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 Has anyone installed an IC into a first gen turbo swap with factory a/c and been able to mount the air cleaner outside the engine bay? All the pictures I've seen are on non-a/c cars. With the condensor & plumbing taking up space the only way I can see to do it would be to run one pipe under the rad support. Will it make a big difference to mount the air cleaner in the engine compartment if you leave the splash pan off for more air flow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 These are the pics you are talking about right Z Ferrari, my intercooler is a little too big to do it this way. I would have to route 3" under the car and then to my filter. We have some bad roads here and I worry about smackin that pipe . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tim78zt Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 Hey Clint, why didn't you give Tom that great idea I saw on that British Cleo where the guy just cut a hole in his front fender and let his K&N hang out the side of the car???!!! Seriously, Tom, I have discussed that very question with Corky Bell over the phone and he assured me that the intercooler will do it's job and cool the hot air coming from the turbo. If you think about it, you are really getting more heat from the air being compressed by the turbo than you are from ambient underhood temps. So leave the splash pan in place, definitely don't remove your bumpers, and just maximize your IC and then trust it to do the job it was designed for! Good luck! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 Haha that one is funny, I actually saw that one. Anyhow I guess I should have finished the post. The skid pan plays a big role in the intercooler and radiator effeciency. It acts as a shroud so positive pressure isn't built up on the engine side. Having fresh air is ideal for the air cleaner, however a big intercooler with good intercooler piping is better. Z ferrari's piping is far from ideal, but you do what you have to on a budget. When you do your intercooler piping use as few bends as possible, also don't use long rubber joints. 2 1/4" for piping and 3" for filter are standard sizes. Here's what a well planned intercooler piping looks like. http://www.zdriver.com/members/scottiegnz/icmods.html My bad TimZ, shouldn't have lead Tom down that road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 I resemble that picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 26, 2001 Share Posted April 26, 2001 Thanks guys, for making my car look like crap compared to scotties . I am now looking for a good i/c. I was running 17 psi and had to wonder about the efficency of it. I am on a really tight budget and will probably use radiator hose again this time, but also use sections of madrel bent piping for the tight bends. 2" 1/4" this time too. Scottie, what boost controller are you running? I think my wastegates a pos and a good boost controller might help some of my fluxuation im havin. Thanks again Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted April 26, 2001 Share Posted April 26, 2001 You notice that I wrote that you do what you have to on a budget. I myself have a tight budget for the car, Scotties NPR is about the best intercooler you can get for the price. You will probably pay $150 more than a starion unit but you have double the capacity. The piping and hoses usually cost about $250 as well, Scottie did a nice budget on his page. Z ferrari I would keep what you have for now, then save a little extra $$ for an NPR core and piping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted April 26, 2001 Share Posted April 26, 2001 Scottie to Scott, come in I posted a write-up on what I am using for a boost controller but cannot find it anywhere, so here goes again. My system is home-made and somewhat complex because it has 3 components to it. It is, however, based on sound principles and it working well for me. Excuse me if I ramble and bore anyone but I think some basic turbo knowledge is required to fully understand how/why this works. A turbo with an internal wastegate has a valve (also referred to as a puck) in the turbine housing that opens to relieves pressure and help control boost levels. That puck is usualy controlled by a wastegate cannister that has a rod connected to a lever on the puck. The cannister has a diaphragm and a spring weighted for a certain pressure, lets say 12#. The cannister receives a boost signal, typically from the compressor housing and when the boost level reaches 12#, the diapraghm is moved and pulls the rod which opens the puck which relieves pressure in the turbine housing and helps maintains 12# boost. Despite a spring pressure of 12#, the puck actually starts opening sooner so the boost buildup is more gradual. The rod length is matched to the spring pressure and if you shorten the rod, more spring pressure is required to open the puck because the shorter rod puts a greater preload on the spring. One trick is to cut the rod, shorten it slightly, thread both ends and join them with a threaded connector with lock nuts on both sides. By adjusting the connector to shorten the rod, the compressor now has to put out say 14# to open the puck despite the cannister having only a 12# spring. When you are running a turbo with a bigger turbine housing/wheel, the slight early opening of the puck can hurt spoolup because the engine is not putting out a lot of HP at that point to spin the bigger/heavier wheel and pressure is already being bled off. In addition to having an adjustable wastegate rod, I also inserted a pressure relief valve in the hose that sends the boost signal to the cannister. The pressure relief valve typically is an inline checkball and spring setup and remains closed until a preset pressure is reached. I have my wastegate rod adjusted to 18# and the relief valve adjusted to 15#, so the cannister sees no boost signal and stays shut until the pressure relief valve opens at 15#. Instant spoolup. The 3rd device is a bleed-off valve that is inserted between the pressure relief valve and the cannister. When the relief valve opens and sends the signal to the cannister, the cannister starts to open the puck at 15# and has it fully open at 18#, but I run 21# and eventually 24#. By opening the bleed-off valve, I bleed of some of the signal pressure before it gets to the cannister and the compressor has to put out more boost before the cannister sees a signal of 18#. If I want to run more boost, I just open up the bleed-off valve some more. See, I told you it was simple . NOT RECOMMENDED FOR AUTOCROSSES or at least use more sane pressures. BTW, a lot of folks buy these industrial type bleed-off valves and find them too sensitive, like moving it 2 notches gets you 6# boost . That is because those valve are typically made for a pressure range of 0-150# or even more and you are trying to increase your boost in 1# increments. The answer is to take it apart and find a spring that is the same size but much, much softer to allow more granularity. There is no one answer as to which spring to get obviously, so it takes a little research based on the valve you have. I believe the stock Nissan cannister spring is rated for 7#. You have the option of making the rod adjustable and/or using a budget bleed off valve with the right spring or springing for an aftermarket unit for some big bucks that do the same thing. This is not a bolt up and go mod. It takes a lot of fine-tuning to get it just right for your setup. Ah, forgot if I even answered your question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted April 26, 2001 Share Posted April 26, 2001 The site is www.autospeed.com, I do have a subscription to this site, however they don't like you giving the articles out. The articles are very technical, informative . Their article is even more involved, and provides a little more adjustability. Scottie's is cheaper and almost as effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted April 26, 2001 Share Posted April 26, 2001 I am aware of the Autospeed article and if I recall it was done on an Audi. Same principle, different parts. I started out with just the adjustable wastegate rod. The reason why I do not rely on just the bleeder to adjust boost is because the stock GN cannister has a 12# spring and I did not want to rely on just a bleeder to double the boost. In addition, when I decided to use the relief valve, I wanted it set to 15 so I would have neeed the adjustable rod anyway. One thing I forgot to mention. Once I get the bleeder valve set, I do not like to fiddle with it so my plans for the street is to put an inline shutoff valve before the bleeder. When I am running pump gas, I close off the bleeder and limit the boost to 18# and when I get to the track I just open the valve and the bleeder becomes active. Another method is to disconnect the bleeder. I have the bleeder connected to the hose with a quick disconnect. I am looking for a quick disconnect cap so on the street I can quick disconnect the bleeder and put the cap on. Can you imagine disconnecting the bleeder and forgetting to put the cap on? KABOOOM The relief vale is made by one of the GN guys, but after seeing it, I probably could have gotten all the parts and made it myself, but it was only $30 shipped. A pic is worth a 1000 words. The cannister is hidden behind the compressor but you can see the rod going from the cannister to the puck. The adjustable part of the rod is also hidden. In front of the compressor you see the fitting for the boost sensing hose leading into the relief valve sitting on top of the blue silicone hose. The hose coming out of the relief valve goes into a grey plastic "Y". One connection from the "Y" eventually goes onto a small blue hose. That is a hard plastic line that goes to the bleeder valve in the car and is needed for the quick disconnect. The other part of the "Y" goes down to the cannister. [ April 26, 2001: Message edited by: Scottie-GNZ ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 27, 2001 Share Posted April 27, 2001 Scottie, thanks a lot for that info. I should have told you have im running but thats how i have mine setup. Well, I have the adjustable wastegate arm. The problem I have with that is I can only raise the boost so much. I shortened the rod about 1/4" or so, but it gets VERY hard to get it on the wastegate and im afraid of damaging the puck itself. The max boost I can get out of it this way is around 9-10 psi, but even still it seems to fluctuate 1.5+/-. I took my intercooler off for now, for my a/c is much more important but Im goign to try to put it back on. I was talking to a guy and actually he said the model is fairly efficient, i guess its still better than nothing. This time im going with 2.25 or 2.5" piping, and im going out tomorrow to find a 240sx throttle body, im looking to clean up my intake a tad and add some horsepower. Thanks a ton guys Scott ps: Scottie, i may be interested in one of your downpipe's. You still selling those babys? Just drop me an email @ stompedpb@aol.com. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted April 27, 2001 Share Posted April 27, 2001 So let me get this straight. You have: A) Threaded turnbuckle on wastegate actuator rod to adjust its length. Pressure relief valve to aid in spoolup. C) Needle-type bleed off valve on the wastegate vacuum line. Wouldn't it be possible just to use the bleed off valve to set your boost pressure? Or just the turnbuckle? The check valve/pressure release valve is an excellent idea btw... Where'd you find one that works at 15psi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted April 27, 2001 Share Posted April 27, 2001 There's an Aussie site out there with COMPLETE plans fo a VERY nice manual boost controller. Part of the site is subscription, part public. The public part has the plans and tests of the setup but I cannot find the darned site. If anyone happens across it please speak up as it had part numbers for industrial valves in the proper pressure range and everything! A complete system that does much of the same thing Scottie's does with checkvalves and all wasn't too expensive at all. (sigh) I've got it bookmarked somewhere and will post if I can dig it up - was a really cool how-to site... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted April 27, 2001 Share Posted April 27, 2001 The autospeed guys spent more money on the releif and bleed valves. The also put a one way check valve around the inline system to allow trapped air to cycle to bleed back so it wouldn't be trapped by the relief valve between shifting. The relief valve is actually a brass grainger valve used on power washers about 15-$20 at most parts stores. I bought mine from a dodge turbo guy for $30 and he gave me some silicone hose as well. These systems are just as effective as those $500 electronic boost controllers, just not as user friendly. You can also setup your boost curve with these 2 valves, ie how fast boost comes on and the peak boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted April 28, 2001 Share Posted April 28, 2001 Sweet! Thanks for pointing the site out to me guys, this time I've downloaded and archived the articles that intrested me. The WRX articles look cool too - I want one! Really cool site, I'd love to build one of those controllers for my RX7 but I dare not risk the motor - it's probably close to lean now. Will get that worked out and bump the boost via the ECU one of these days, it'll fly. Pretty cool setup they built and it sounds like Scottie's is pretty neat too. Sure beats spending a ton of money if you can help it. Heh, I've got an EVC IV in the garage barely used who's solenoid went out - ouch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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