Guest Anonymous Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 I can get a '91 Thunderbird engine, is 3.8 L, Roots (or screw, whatever ppl call em) supercharged, air-air intercooled, MPFI, with AL heads. What can I do to this engine to make it sing? Overdrive the S/C with a bigger pulley? Rising rate fuel pressure regulator? Add-on ignition boost retard? Are these engines built well to handle higher rpm and boost pressure, i.e. good crank, rods, pistons, ect? Stock h.p. is 210 from what I've read. This might be what I'm looking for, an (kinda)economical way to have a boosted Z. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Night_rider_383 Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 Bud i wish i could give you more info on that engine but i really dont know much about em. Now i can give you a few things to think about but now if thats what you like and want then dont let what i say make any diff in how you feel. 1) 3.8L aint really that much bigger than stock engines in the z's (now i dont think its gonna be like the buick grand nat. engines thoses are some bad ass engines to be small) 2) Even with that engine pumping out 300 hp on boost the torque aint gonna be there 3) More than likely a 250 hp 350 chevy in a z will be faster than that 3.8L cause of torque 4) The chevy s/b will be cheaper and parts come easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 i am a ford dealer tech-i have worked on these engines.they make lots of mid range torque bit die at about 5500 to 6000 rpm.if you get it hot it blows head gaskits.but the radiator was to small in tbird-ford made it more narrow to put intercooler beside it.the tbird would overheat if boost was kept on in a road race use-we tried it at sears point twice on a lowered tbird that had some sticky tires on it.it would probably make a fun street engine in a z because of fat midrange torque -sideways driving at 2500 or 3000 rpm with a 3.7 lsd.the tbird we played with had the supercharger overdriven with aftermarkit pulley and no cats.tbirds are heavy-3600 lbs.trans has a wide ratio spread-best set up would be a 3.8 mustang bell housing with a world class t5.not oem ford t5-the trans will be granny gear in 1st if you use oem trans.we switched the tbird to 3.55 from 2.83-first was good for launch only.this engine would work in a z with a good radiator and move intercooler to front.actually i am not a fan of this engine-it sounds like a tractor or something like that.i would rather use supercharger for a l28 motor and toss the rest-maybe keep intercooler.but my 77/81zxt car beat my buddys time at sac raceway so i am prejudiced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 Randy's right about the head gaskets. I've seen at least 4 of these puppies at my friend's shop - some of them torn up pretty badly. I didn't realize they shoehorned an intercooler in there too! Look up some SuperCoupe sites and you'll find good information on these puppies. There's at least one guy out there rebuilding their blowers to betterhigher boost specs. Occasionally SuperFord will do an article or build-up on one but they're not really well supporeted motors IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyMIz Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 One more thing i was a ford tech too and those things don't just blow head gaskets the heads crack very easily and they are very expensive to replace.I've worked on one putting in new heads and gaskets the guy must have been rich to afford the repair bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 4, 2001 Share Posted August 4, 2001 Thanks for the advice everyone, I really appreciate it. If I do get this engine it'll remain mostly stock, maybe a few standard hotroding tricks like porting, slightly reground cams with same lobe seperation, ARP fasteners, reworked rods, ect. Just to be safe I'll also look into o-ringing the block. The intent on this swap is a compromise on power and weight. With the blown V-6 set back as far as practical, fiberglass hood, and the battery relocated behind the pasenger seat in a sealed bow (vented through the floorboard) the resulting mass centralization should make it a great autocross and canyon car. Again, thanks alot ps: will a mass airflow sensor designed for a 5.0 work? Both Fords you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted August 4, 2001 Share Posted August 4, 2001 Heh, and you didn't like the Northstar motor? Stock these things blow head gaskets and crack heads - no really! I THINK I might have seen someone with an ad selling aftermarket heads for these since these crack so often. I'd suggest you try to track down some old Muscle MustangFast Ford mags with build-ups of these motors. The Ford shop I deal with is almost all Mustang and yet I've seen at least 4 blown up SC motors in there so that should sort of tell you something about their track record. All required a complete motor replacement or rebuild by the time it was done. At least put a warning light on the temp so you'll be sure to spot an overheating condition. ASP or March sell overdrive pulleys for them, someone rebuilds the blowers to better than new specs, not sure about the MAF. I think Super Ford had an article about that but honestly the Ford MAFs don't always swap from app to app. Give Pro-M a shout and see what they say. I'd say put a vacuum gauge behind the stock MAF first to see if it's a restriction before swapping it. i'll see what I can dig up about them performance parts-wise bu tI think finding a site dedicated to them would be a good idea before buying it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 4, 2001 Share Posted August 4, 2001 This 'fascination with a flawed engine to be different' thing seems to be swaying me over JUST KIDDING OK? Friend of mine had problems with a Mitsu Starion doing the same thing, tracked it down to inadequate cooling. Heat kills boosted motors. Do you think an all aluminum radiator will help? You can get NASCAR used radiators for $100 in some resale shop in North Carolina. BTW $50 aluminum driveshafts too. Just have to cut it down and rebalance. I think the diff between the NS and Ford is the NS was still under warranty, while the Ford is already 10+ years old, maybe the radiators are crusted up and causing these problems. I dunno. Will carefully research the S/C motor before getting it. TY for the help [ August 03, 2001: Message edited by: PARAGOD ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted August 4, 2001 Share Posted August 4, 2001 Howe radiators run about $180 NEW. I swear that puppy sucked down 3 GALLONS of coolant and still wasn't completely full. I cannot imagine needing more capacity than that - especially with the Camaro radiators taking so much less and managing to cool V8s. I'm not sure it's just cooling on these cars. I do know someone with an SC cCougar (yes from the factory) that's got a ton of miles on it and beats it hard. That puppy still runs stong (shrug). Have you looked into any of the FWD Buick Supercharged motors? I've driven a Pontiac that had a blower too (FWD) and it moved nicely. The Eaton blower doesn't seem to be the issue but rather other things in the motor. Might be interesting to look up how many recalls Ford had on that motor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Adkins Posted August 5, 2001 Share Posted August 5, 2001 From everyone's observations, it sounds like inadequate cooling and overheating (too small a radiator or plugged radiator) is what causes problems with these motors.... It would probably be a decent motor with a nice big aluminum radiator... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 5, 2001 Share Posted August 5, 2001 Wow! Listen to this s/c howl! In a parking garage and dragstrip. Takes a little while to d/l, but worth it if you're curious what one of these sounds like hopped up. www.starpoint.net/~dorf-sc/vegasmeetbig.mov BTW I wrote the address exactly like it looks on the address bar but doesn't work here. Any ideas? [ August 05, 2001: Message edited by: PARAGOD ] [ August 05, 2001: Message edited by: PARAGOD ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jason Posted August 5, 2001 Share Posted August 5, 2001 If you want a lightweight, and flawed but powerful motor, get a quad 4, and throw a hot cam into it. Some company sells a rwd conversion for them. I picked up an Oldsmobile Achieva SCX for all of $1000 for use as my daily driver. Gets great gas milage, and supposedly has 190hp. Pretty impressive considering the twisted plumbing job for an air intake, the tiny cat, and the fact that its only 2.3L. Its got no low end torque, its noisy, but it hauls @ss from 3500-7000. Some SCX's had a 7400 redline! The engine had a bad reputation, but that can be overcome if you take the time to rebuild it with good parts, or at least replace the lousy head gasket. You'd also have plenty of room in the engine bay for a turbo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 6, 2001 Share Posted August 6, 2001 TY all for the help. I lost the biding for a 3.8 S/C motor, so I am abandoning THAT idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 6, 2001 Share Posted August 6, 2001 Wow, Quad4, never thought of that. Wonder how much the rwd conversion is though. 7000+rpm! I need to find out what the bore/stroke ratio is, probably oversquare with that kind of powerband. I learned through the ricer mags that most imports have forged cranks and well supported (webbed) main journals. If the Quad4 does also then it is a candidate. ty [ August 05, 2001: Message edited by: PARAGOD ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jens Posted August 13, 2001 Share Posted August 13, 2001 How about the supercharged Pontiac bonneville ssei engine it is a 240 hp buick 3.8 with a eaton supercharger. With a rwd trans it should work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 13, 2001 Share Posted August 13, 2001 I looked into doing this at one time, sounded like a neat swap to me. The only thing that might be a bugaboo about the swap would be the intake on the blower. *I think* the throttle body and blower intake would end up at the rear and possibly (if the engine was set back ala JTR swap) be majorly into the firewall. It may be as easy as building a 90 deg intake adapter to get the throttle body out of the firewall. I think personally it would make a neat swap. Obviously there is the GN Buick swap, and the supercharged engine wouldn't have as much easily adjustable power as the Buick turbo, but none the less it would be different and have lots of good torque I would think. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jens Posted August 14, 2001 Share Posted August 14, 2001 Its possible to get much more hp but its expensive. See this link http://www.thrasher-ep.com/L67_htm/pulley.shtm This upgrade makes 30 hp more and with a liquid intercooler 309 hp. With more mods 370 hp is possible but its damn expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 18, 2001 Share Posted August 18, 2001 Wow, this thread hits close to home! I'm doing the 350-in-a-240Z thing AND I own an '89 T-bird SC that I've had for 12 years now. I've managed to put 180k+ miles on the motor w/o any major engine work (brakes and electrical on the car are another story...). I baby it now, but the first 100k saw plenty of WOT action. The motor does only put out 210 HP stock, but that's because it's a low-RPM motor. The torque peak is 315! The motor pulls like a truck from idle, but runs out of breath around 4500 rpm. There are a lot of aftermarket pieces to make it breathe better, but you'll need to bring a boatload of money with you. These things were too limited in production to have affordable aftermarket parts. See the Super Coupe owners' club site at www.sccoa.com. My recommendation is don't do it. It will get too expensive compared to any mainstream motor (e.g., SBC, 5.0). Would be fun, though. BTW, I've never overheated or blown a head gasket...but then again, I maintain the cooling system and keep an eye on my gauges when I run it hard. [ August 18, 2001: Message edited by: jim_slipe ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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