VIN Tag removal

[RacerX]

I thought I'd bring this up for those of you doing a complete resto/modification. The subject of VIN Tag removal came up at the shop. I found this info from a Sunbeam Tiger website regarding VIN Tag removal and though it isn't the same car we're discussing, the issue is still related and I wanted to pass this on hoping it will help prevent registration difficulties down the road.

 

 

"10.7.51 of the CA. motor vehicle code:

 

It is illegal to remove or alter the vin # of a motor vehicle.....Should an altered vin # be

encountered (which includes method of attachment) at best the tag is seized, and a state tag will

be placed on the vehicle in place of the original (that'll really help if you ever go to sell the car).

Should the vehicle not have a secondary #, to authenticate its identity, the vehicle will be crushed.

 

Tigers don't have a secondary vin placement, and the 302 engine might not be original, and neither

is that 5 speed, so those numbers aren't available to compare...Still wanna pop the tags???

 

By the way, this is direct from an auto theft detective who worked 10+ years in CA. doing auto

theft investigations. He likened the scenario to when the Hells Angels would steal a Harley, and

swap out the case half with the vin number. A check of another component would reveal it to be

stolen. The bike was seized, then crushed, because it could not be returned in the illegally altered

state.

 

The detective also mentioned that sometimes, if its impounded (dead on freeway, etc.) the

impounding CHP Trooper will check the vin-if he doesn't like what he's found...it's the state's until

you satisfy them it's not stolen. You'll probably lose your Rootes vin tag, and get a state one when

the car is released. This same detective stated he had authorized several cars, and lots of Harleys

to be crushed in CA. because of vin tag problems.

 

So, does this apply nationwide? YES. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but vin tags are

mandated by law to stay put.

 

As I said , if yours have been popped, then that's that. Nothing you can do about it,

unless you could replicate the original exactly so that it would pass inspection. It will probably

never be an issue. The detective knew just in talking that the Tiger vin rivets were noticeably

different from american pop rivets, by the way.

 

Hopefully this answers some of those nagging doubts, and will put to rest the idea that popping

tags is okay to do.

 

This is intended for those who are considering doing a full restoration, and who want to take the

serial number plate off the cowl.

 

In an effort to determine the accuracy of my statements I spoke to: a civilian inspector from the

Washigton State Vehicle Inspection Center, a local Auto Theft Detective who previously worked

for a large southern California police agency as an auto theft detective, the FBI and the National

Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

 

In 1968 there was a Federal Standards Act, which codified the placement and attachment method

of vin tags. This resulted in the familiar windshield placement of the vin, so that it became 'public',

and open to inspection by law enforcement without court order or permission. This was not the

first time that vins were mandated under Federal Law. Remember though, that vehicles are 'real

property', and have titles issued which use the serial number/vin to identify the vehicle.

 

Prior to 1958 the engine block number of each vehicle was the identification number used for the

vehicle-remember the Harley example? This also applied to cars, and when you exchanged the

motor in your pre-1958 auto, you were supposed to notify the State Dept. of Motor Vehicles to

have them record the serial number change. This was obviously cumbersome, and was changed.

 

AFTER 1958, Federal law amended the rules, assigning a vehicle I.D. number/serial number to

the CHASSIS of each car. This puts ALL of the 1960s Tigers within the rules regarding serial/vin

numbers. There is no federal law which allows these numbers to removed for restoration.

 

Regarding Due Process-since the Federal Law was instituted in '58, this arguement does not

apply. Since the engine number was used as the I.D. by the states prior to '58, this arguement still

does not apply. Sorry. Further, vehicle registrations are not governed by the Feds...we have

individual state plates, not a Federal License plate. In an instance where the Feds are absent, the

States are allowed to exercise their taxing authority (remember State's Rights?). In all 50 states of

the Union, vehicle licenses are handled under state authority.

 

The civilian inspector for WSP stated that a sure fire way to get a car flagged as a problem vin,

was to show up with glistening paint under the 32 year old vin or serial number plate. They will

flag the car, inspect the rivets, determine if they've been tampered with, require documentation,

and affix their own tag-often next to the original, using the same numbers. Remember, that if you

move to a different state (like to WA. for the big Microsoft/Boeing bucks), you will usually have

to get your car inspected before they will issue plates.

 

According to the detective who had worked in southern Ca., California Highway Patrol

inspectors see it the same way, and act in the same manner. In fact, just about all of the states

follow a similar program.

 

Per the FBI Agent, there is no Federal Law allowing vin tags to be removed for restoration, and

all of the vehicle registration issues are handled on the STATE level.

 

On the state level, cars without tags can get crushed-3 Tigers which were stolen and had the vins

popped were crushed in Santa Ana in about 1975...the parts had all been swapped around, and

the Judge ordered them destroyed because they could not determine real identity of any of the

cars, and a 1964 Corvette was crushed when the owner popped the tag for restoration, and had

no supporting documentation...a fact firsthand from a detective involved in the cases.

 

So, again I repeat. Do not remove your vin tags. Until someone can show me specific Title and

Section of the Federal code which refutes all of these people-many who are certified as experts in

a Federal Court of law, then the truth is your vin tags are there to stay.

 

I thought that citing California Motor Vehicle Code would be enough, hopefully you all will find

this more rational, and we can put this long abused practice to rest."

 

RacerX

[TomoHawk]

Good info. I was thinking about that, because if I can my GTO up to snuff for the inspector, I could retitle it as a GTO replica with a VIN that had an appropriate(but non-existant) Vin/serial number. Probably something in the 4000 range.

 

I was thinking that if you were planning a restoration, to make things totally legal, you should pre-apply for a VIN tag replacement or something like that, so you could keep the original or request a new one.

 

Where would you get a new one? who would make it? Some guys that build street rods from scratch. Should check to see if they get some kind of tag when the car is registered.

 

thx.