Rebuilt engine found in warehouse - what should I offer?

[RPMS]

Well, some days it pays to get out of bed!

 

A friend of a friend works at a freight company. One of their clients racked up a huge freight bill then went out of business, leaving them holding a few rebuilt engines in lieu of payment. One of them is a Chevy SBC, block casting #14093638, head casting #14102191. Mortec.com lists these parts as a 350 block with late heads, but doesn't go into any great detail. The engine build sheet lists the following information:

 

Rebuild date 4/1/01

Piston: Badger PS67, .04 over

Rings: Hastings E251X

Con Rods: Production

Crankshaft: Production

Main Bearings: King MS-909 20

Rod Bearings: King CR-663 20

Cam: Clevite 274

 

There's a second sheet in the package, showing compression test results.

1: 185 2: 195

3: 200 4: 200

5: 210 6: 205

7: 180 8: 185

 

Obviously, since the remanufacturer is out of business, that means that this engine comes with no warranty. Looking at the specs listed above, what do you think would be a fair price for it? Before I saw the engine (still sealed in its plastic bag) I told the guy on the phone that I might pay $450 or $500, but my offer depends on a close examination.

 

I don't know much about the above components, except that they seem to be fairly middle-of-the-road. Not fantastic, but not horrible, either.

 

Can I get some feedback on this, please? I'd really appreciate hearing as many thoughts as possible before I make my decision next week.

 

Thanks,

[DavyZ]

Scott, great find! If you figure that Krangen or Pep Boys is selling remanufactured stock long-blocks for $600-$700, a "performance" rebuild is worth at least that. You price of $400-$500 sounds pretty fair; obviously the lower the better since there is no warranty. If the engine has an aluminum intake and such, the deal becomes even sweeter. This sounds like a 300hp motor and should live a long time if it was assembled properly. Start low first...it would be killer to pick it up for $400 with tax included!

 

David

[Guest JAMIE T]

I agree with DavyZ, lowball'm. Get it for as little as possible. Try to get it lower, but $400 seems like a fair price on both ends of the deal.

 

Jamie

Deathstar Z

[Ray]

Im with Jamie lowball um start at 250$..but 400-500 is fair... BTW what other motors do they have.????

[Guest Night_rider_383]

That would be a great deal for a starter engine IF you can pick it up cheap enuff. Now i'm gonna talk for two sides here 1--back yard gearhead 2--- performance engine builder

 

BTW block and head info at bottom

 

1-- Good soild block to start with, alot to work with, sounds like a fair build, Can always add some "bolt-ons", Can get it cheap under 500 bucks.

 

2--- A few of the specs that you really need to know aint there like all the cam info, the way it was installed, valve type and size, bearing under sizes,

 

Something really sounds wrong with that crompression gauge readings. Is these readings cranking compression or running compression? I can't tell you 100% for sure with out now the air temp, and other info like that and the intake valve closing in degress abdc but for running compression 200 psi. would come out to around est. 13.533:1 c/r.,

 

ok stock rods were used right? well what was the the rod round-out and what type rod bolts where used, Hasting rings wear fast as so does the king bearings.

 

Davyz... man don't take this part the wrong way but i would not think 300 hp or any where close to it. 1st the key to hp is compression, head flow, cam lift, dur., lsa,

and none of the cam info is there and the heads aint aint one of the better castings

 

Heads-------

year-- casting #-- engine-- intake valve-- echaust valve-- other stuff about heads

 

1986-88 14102191 305/350 1.94 1.5001 - EFI, swirl port

 

 

Block-------

Casting #-- size-- year-- main caps-- other stuff about engine

 

14093638...350...87-95...2 or 4...Roller or flat tappet cam, one-piece rear seal

 

But thats just my two cents on it man anyway any running chevy v-8 engine you can get for 500 bucks or less is well worth it

 

 

John

[DavyZ]

John, your right--there is more to a 300hp engine than just the cam. I was thinking that since we know so little about the motor, a cam with an advertised duration of 274 generally equates to a "300hp cam" in a very broad sense. Yes, compression (which we don't know) and head specs (which we also don't know) are key players here. I made a hasty presumption about the motor--but I'm such an optomist! I can hope for 300 ponies can't I? Thanks for calling me on it--keeps me honest.

 

David

[RPMS]

Well, John, taking a look at it, you may be right. The compression readings DO seem a bit screwball. Anyone know why they'd read so high?

 

And the information you printed out indicates a fuel injection head. Will there be any problem running a Quadrajet carb with these heads?

 

I understand that this place has already sold two of the unclaimed engines. Besides "mine", the other two that they still have are a big block Ford (a 390, I think?) and a Chevy 3.8 liter V6.

 

The 350 has no intake, valve covers or oil pan, which is no big deal, since it's a good excuse to go out and buy some tasty aluminum bits! Can I safely assume that all of the brackets and accessories (and the GM aluminum intake) from my mosquito-fogger 305 will bolt onto the 350?

 

I'm starting to get really excited about this!

[BLKMGK]

FWIW - Badger pistons in that sucker are probably very run of the mill cast units. I'd not rev that puppy to high! IF you've got a 305 now and are simply looking to upgrade and can get it cheap I'd go for it but don't expect it to wear a cape

[Guest Night_rider_383]

RPMS. I seen no prob with bolting your q-jet on and yeah all the brackets and all will fit w/o a prob. What year is your 305? 1987-95 takes alittle diff intake than the pre 1987 engines. Man i wish i could tell you the deal with the compression readings. Thats even got me to thinking (btw that aint a good thing) lol

 

Davyz... Yeah bud i know what you mean man. I think we all hope for as much hp as we can get. We dont know much about the engine so you do have a point. It could be a 175 hp run of the mill build or who knows it could be a 400 hp build. I'm just looking at the parts that was listed and its hard to really see to0 big of numbers with them parts. When most folks and places does a performance build they use parts like speed-pro, federal-mogul, clevite 77, well you get my point. With me and all other performance shops around here when an engine leaves it goes with some type of dyno papers (being i have to take the engine 60 miles for dyno time some of my lower price engines leave with a desk top dyno print out) and all the paper work on the parts used, pistons, rings bolts, valve size, all the cam specs, valve spring lbs, etc, I port and polish all the heads and even sent out the new port size with the engine. Everything.

[RPMS]

Hmmm... The intake is from a 1984 Camaro. Do you think this won't work with the 350 I'm looking at?

 

I'm hoping that maybe with a slightly more aggressive cam this engine might put out 250 hp. Do you think that's reasonable, given the parts listed? I figure that as light as a Z is, even 250 hp will motivate it nicely.

[BLKMGK]

Hrm, Badger pistons are used in stock rebuilds - as in bone stock. Still, a 350 is a 350 and it's replacing a 305 that's wheezing right? Try to get it cheap and if it makes 200HP you're probably ahead. If it needs an intake pick one up, maybe even off of E-Bay.

 

I wouldn't expect this puppy to move mountains, seriously, but it will move your Z at least as well as what you've got and if you can get it for $500 or so I'd think that you'd be ahead of the game. What's a freshly bored block and crank worth? For that matter there's nothing stopping you from tearing into it and slapping in some higher performance parts before you drop it in is there? Well, okay maybe budget I still think that for a decent price it puts you ahead. A GM rebuild costs what, over a grand?

[Guest Night_rider_383]

RPMS.... I think you will have to do a few mods to the intake off an 84 to fit the newer heads. Nothing real big. I don't work with newer stuff that much but i'm pretty sure with the intake from the 84 and the older ones the two middle bolt holes on each side is drilled at an angle and on the newer intakes/heads the two middle bolt holes on each side is driller strighter than the older one. To fix this prob just drill out the 2 middle bolt holes on the intake alittle so you can move the bolts to the right angle to fit and use alittle bigger washers on these bolts.

 

If you work it out on paper and find the best way to bump up the flow rates on the heads and run a good dual patt. cam then i wouldnt think 250 hp would be hard to get.I would pull the heads, take them apart, buy a SA head porting kit out of summit $40 bucks and comes with almost a book on how to port them, And port your heads, Match your head ports to your intake gaskets, polish the exhaust ports till they look like chrome lol, do alittle bowl work, and gasket match your intake manifold to the intake gaskets just like you done on the heads. For cams every one has there brand but my self i seen some of the biggest hp and torque jumps with the crane power max line. I'm running a crane power max 272/284, 216/228 @.050, .454/.480'' lift, 112 lsa with 1.6 ratio rollers that brings the lift to 484/.512'' in my '62 327 along with race ported iron '65 327 double hump heads, 9.78:1 c/r and i'm seeing 453 hp @6200 rpm

 

Just one thing man. Don't try to spin that engine up high much. I feel like the redline would be around 5200-5500 rpm at the max. After that your looking at alot of side wear on the rights, high pistons loads, valve float, etc, ans with them parts i don't feel like they can take that much force. Like BLKMGK said the pistons are used in stock rebuilds, and the valves will be heavy 2 or 3 pc. valves and heav valve trains likes to float alot when the rpm comes up.

 

But again like i said before and like BLKMGK said at that price you cant beat it. You can always tear it down and re-build it your self pretty cheap being you wont have to put money out for much machine work. Summit has a great rebuild kit for 329.95 with forged 9.72:1 speed-pro (use to be trw but sold out to speed-pro brand) pistons, speed pro moly rings, federal-mogul bearings, fel-pro gaskets, federal high vol. oil pump. They say the kits can be ordered with .030 and .060'' over pistons and rings. I'm pretty sure they can get this kit in .040'' over maybe a few bucks higher, Then buy a set of ARP rod,main, and head bolts, $122 if two bolt main $135 if 4 bolt main, Around $60 bucks to have the rod bolts put in. and around the same or maybe a few bucks more for the main bolts cause you have to have it aline honed, $150 for a good cam kit with the cam, lifters, lock plate, bolts, $35 for a summit double roller timing chain, And if you got the money a set of trick flow aulm heads $850 bucks ready to run all but rockers, stamp steel roller rockers $100 Now with this your talking some pretty big numbers for the street and if you think about it you just made you some money by saving the parts you pulled of that engine finding a core and useing them parts in it and sellin it. Also by getting that engine for 500 or less you saved alot over getting a core and rebuilding it. Like on a bore bore&hone $90-100, turn crank $80-90, hot tank and flux block $30-45, install cam bearings and plugs $25-35 plus price of core $50-200 and all the work of tearing it down and some what cleaning it.

 

Total for re-working the engine you gonna buy $1722 plus what ever you give for the engine and other parts you might wanna buy. like air-gap intake, better carb, better dist. or re-work and curve yours etc.

[RPMS]

Y'all give some great information here!

 

Lone, this engine won't be replacing a 305, in the strictest sense. When I saw how much smoke the 5-liter engine was belching, I didn't even bother putting it in the Z. Right now the 305's sitting in a pile of pieces in a corner of my garage, and my Z still has the inline 6. So even if the engine puts out a paltry 200 hp, it should be quite an improvement over what I have now!

 

NR383, for a while I had the same thoughts about making some changes to the engine before installing it. But the more I think about it, the more I realize that I still want a destroked 400. I can do the V8 conversion using this mild motor, and build up my 400 while I'm shaking out any bugs int he suspension, driveline, etc. Next season I can pull out the 350, sell it, and plug in the 400.

 

So y'all think I should be able to waller out the center bolt holes in the intake and it will work?

[DavyZ]

Well, you could do that if you take your time and have got some free time to measure, work it, measure, work it, etc. That might work really well.

 

Or you could pull a used Performer manifold off ebay for dirt cheap which will flow better than the Vette manifold. Just my $.02.

 

David