josh817 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Ok so here's the story, I'm having big headaches over some wiring. The previous owner had done a l28et swap to the car so a lot of stuff was ****ed around with. I wanted to hook up my ammeter so I can tell if I'm draining my battery or not however the obvious huge wht/red and wht wires are not back there. I whipped out the schematics and my voltage regulator isn't anywhere to be found (unless its one of these things that I don't know what they are). I suspect my alternator is from a 1983 280zxt since he got the tranny and the motor together for his swap. Its been 2 years since I have bought the car, I built an NA stroker to avoid the wiring mess and now I'm just cleaning up some unknowns. Now here come the questions... Schematics for a 240z show that the neg terminal on the ammeter is from the alternator AFTER the fuse box. The alternator is the huge wht/red wire yes? So wht/red should go in, and then another should come out and up to the gauge. However, there is only the one wht/red wire going into the box. NOTE: this diagram is not for a '72 Z I guess because its showing ammeter and water temp. together and fuel/oil together however ammeter hook up should still be the same. Ok so when I bought the car there was no fuel gauge, I asked why and he said it melted when he was wiring this thing up. Well I don't know if that was from his turbo harness or if it was because this stock harness. I do know that I still see crap that is in the cabin and engine bay which don't match up color wise on any of the things in the schematics... Here we can see the silver thing is my turn signal relay, but what are the two green wires to that thing, and what is that other box with the heavy gauge wires to it. Wht/red shouldn't be going to any sort of relay so what the hell?! The wht/red wire reads 14v at idle. There is also a thick white wire with a connector on it right above those relays, this wire provided 12v to the fuse box when connected. Then there is the engine bay. The only thing I don't know is this little box which was on the sparkplug side of the bay and was tucked into some spot. I mounted it on some empty holes in the firewall. This I would think is my voltage regulator but the colors still don't match. There is also a picture of my alternator if you can see what model it is. Its in good shape so I doubt its 35 years old. If thats the case then a missing voltage reg. is ok because you do this to convert to 280zx alternators right due to an internal reg. right? I didn't take a picture of it but also on my water temp. sensor wire, there are 2 wires that just dangle there and not go to anything. I ignore it but I'm curious what they are for. Since the harness is a '72 harness, I don't know what else is around that area other than a points dizzy but I didn't think it needed 2 wires. So this brings me to my final thoughts. Should I do an ammeter or a volt meter. I know you can convert to a 280z volt meter and the fuel plugs are the same but what is involved with the volt meter part. I want something to tell me whether my battery is dying or not. I know the volt meter has a charging light so does this not blink if I'm draining my battery? My stereo is like a 200 watt system with no amp and I'm keeping electrical stuff to a minimum so I'm sure my alternator can keep up. There is a write up on using a 280z gauge: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=974782 However they are talking about some 6 pin circular connector and its on a 260z so I have no idea what its doing... Apparently a volt meter is easier to hook up and if I don't have these huge wht/red and wht wires under the dash like I should maybe I just do a voltmeter. What I want is to see if turning on the lights or the stereo will draw more than what the alternator can produce. I would think an ammeter is what I want for that but will a volt meter do the same? Thanks for all the help guys. These last couple of things figured out will solve just about all the wiring! EDIT: I have confirmed that I have a ZX alternator. Now the voltage reg... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 Well upon more research I'm starting to think the unknown thing I put on my firewall is the voltage regulator as this write up is showing a '73 240z with a rectangular connector. However, this branch from the main wiring harness is too short to reach the stock voltage regulator spot so what is that little box?! I bought a '76 volt meter/fuel gauge and will do the conversion. A voltmeter is pretty straight forward to hook up, that charge light though I don't know... The write up: http://www.atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/alternatorswap/index.html Discusses an all around alternator swap. Well, if I already have the desired alternator (my opinion) then the wiring and mix match between 1 & 5 and 2 & 3 should either not be needed or possibly already done. If you look at the schematic sheet they have, it says the charge light is hooked up from the L terminal, easy enough to find, to the ign relay and then it goes onto say that you want it to a switched 12v when engine cranking. This brings me to 2 questions, why hook up a charge light to run only when you start the car, and what exactly is this charge light reading? Is it reading that the alternator is spinning because that should be rather obvious as long as you didn't throw a belt... If you need a switched 12v then damn, I can find that easy. Tomorrow I will check one last spot in the engine bay. Next to the alternator is a plug which was rigged up to connect to its mate however its mate has no wires or anything. This connection may be what I just stated, 2&3 and 1&5 leaving 4&6 left empty. EDIT: Ah... "1. An "L" connection which goes to a "switched" 12V supply. By this I mean a 12V source that is active only when the ignition switch is in the ON position. I use the mnemonic "L" for "lamp", the alternator warning lamp (if used) is in series with this connection. This terminal also supplies the "excitation" current to the alternator field winding at engine turn on, allowing the alternator to begin producing voltage as the engine is ramping up to idle speed. Once the alternator rotor is turning fast enough, it generates it's own supply for the field winding and the current in the "L" connection stops flowing. The warning lamp (if used) goes out." So does this conclude that I can just tap into my L terminal, run it to the light, and then run the other wire and tap into this... I don't know what relay they would speak of unless it was a later model thing because the starter motor has like nothing to it if you look here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 Well I guess I'm being impatient but it seems kind of annoying that people are posting in "How to start my l24" but don't find any interest in my post. With that being said I will keep posting my findings in case if it helps others. As you can see my problem isn't MISSING parts but its like I have TOO MANY parts. I literally went down the schematics and everything is accounted for minus the voltage reg, and the horn relay which I know I have because my horn works and I hear it clicking but the clicking sounds like its coming from somewhere else. A horn draws lots of current so maybe the giant wht/red wire to that relay thing down by the passengers feet is it, although it doesn't sound like tis coming from there. This is a questionable piece here, don't know what it does. There is either color fade or there is truly 3 B/Y wires on top with 2 bridged together, 1 Black, and 2 Greens. This makes no sense to me. Now if that isn't the voltage regulator, I do have this plug. The one that has its mate which goes to nothing so it must be some sort of self done thing. This would make sense because to convert over to a ZX alternator, you basically pull all 6 wires from the "circular" type voltage regulators: Images provided by Atlanticz.ca (http://www.atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/alternatorswap/index.html) Study those pictures and then look at this diagram which shows the location of stuff. The plug which is on a short pigtail has 5 wires: Note that there is a Y/B wire from the alternator which is also present on this plug, yes the colors don't match the diagram above however the type of plug and location do. Also note the condensor: Next up is near the coil. I have another relay however I highly suspect this is a headlight relay due to matching wires at the combo switch and to the relay. I will see if they are connected once I get my voltmeter to work properly... You can also see 2 stray wires like I said that went with the water temp wire, I think these are for the dizzy from the same diagram as above, focused in the area. Along with the stray connectors is a B/W wire which I know is for the coil from ignition and you can kind of see it in the diagram too. Lastly these are the only things I still don't know... Passenger side foot area mounted on the side wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCZ Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Hi Josh, I don't have all your answers but I can throw out a few clues: 1) Passenger side footwell, the can with the B, R, LR and WR wires is your accessory relay. It should click when you turn the key to the accessory position. Also note that the wire colors in the FSM show the HARNESS side of the connector, not the RELAY side. 2) That thing on the firewall by the battery is not your voltage regulator. I'm not sure what it is but it looks like a relay - maybe horn relay? 3) The voltage regulator used to be near that square plug down by the alternator on the right side of the engine compartment. It looks like the PO swapped in an internally regulated alternator and that square plug is part of the "fix". Ain't PO wiring "fixes" fun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 Hi Josh, I don't have all your answers but I can throw out a few clues: 1) Passenger side footwell, the can with the B, R, LR and WR wires is your accessory relay. It should click when you turn the key to the accessory position. Also note that the wire colors in the FSM show the HARNESS side of the connector, not the RELAY side. 2) That thing on the firewall by the battery is not your voltage regulator. I'm not sure what it is but it looks like a relay - maybe horn relay? 3) The voltage regulator used to be near that square plug down by the alternator on the right side of the engine compartment. It looks like the PO swapped in an internally regulated alternator and that square plug is part of the "fix". Ain't PO wiring "fixes" fun? Yah I thought that to myself. 1972 and the 240 went to 73 so I checked the "Late model" schematic and saw the acc. relay. Thats good. That means there is my T/S flasher, acc relay, and I think the other on is the 4 way hazard flasher. I won't talk bad about the previous owner since he is a member on here but lets just say he did the turbo swap when he was 17 or 18 like I am now. Right now I am fighting my teenage temptation to just make everything work and don't care about aesthetic things but apparently, he gave into the temptation. Its been 2 years since I bought the car so of course he is like dude I don't know you should know these thigns by now and I'm like ... I'm trying to figure it out so I know... There is a reason why I went to carbs. :] 3 wires from alternator, oil pressure, water temp, coil, and electric fan. Thats it! Now add 10 more for EDIS-6... Things we have resolved/safely assumed: Headlight relay - drivers side near coil Voltage regulator - passenger side near alternator Accesory relay - passenger foot well All that is left is whatever is on the firewall. I would say horn relay however the horn relay should have 3 wires/terminals. I guess the easy way to figure this out is unplug it! EDIT: I was wrong about the plug next to the coil. I'm starting to wonder if this was an automatic tranny Z. I unhooked that plug and the one on the firewall and my horn/lights still worked. The horn really, according to the FSM is under the dash. The thing I thought was a 4 way flasher isn't really... I don't know what it is but my turn signals stil work with it unplugged. It likes very very very similar to the buzzer however the buzzer is suppose to be on the drivers side. I will hook it up to 12v and see if it does anything. If not then maybe its broken. Then again if you look in the pictures they are 2 green wires. Well check this out: Maybe the thermo switch looks just like awfully like the buzzer? Now the only problem is why does that thing next to the buzzer look like a turn signal flasher... >_< Near the coil, the connector I was so sure of being a headlight relay: I also found something worth checking into. In the General section of the FSM it says if the model is HLS30 then it should have a 3.9 rear end. :] Mmmmmm although I would like 4.11. Another good hint that this car may have had an automatic transmission is because the reverse lights aren't hooked up. I say this because if he put the new T5 tranny in and such and wires were dangling down below for the lights, then logic says hey, hook it up its right there. However when I was down there I didn't see any cut or hanging wires. Perhaps its because the automatic transmission model had a inhibitor switch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCZ Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 The auto tranny did have an inhibitor switch and there should be some extra wires in the tranny tunnel in addition to the reverse light switch wires. When I put the T5 into my 73 (was an auto) I was able to mark all the wires before the swap. The T5 has a reverse switch and a neutral switch. I hooked mine up so that the gear must be in neutral for the starter to run. I didn't try to hook up a clutch switch but I might at some time in the future. I think the reverse light wires come out right near the reverse switch on the T5 so you should be able to figure that out. If you get stuck I can crawl under there and see if I can get some wire colors for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nwar Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 (edited) Hey I think you had at one time a dual point distributor. Because your car was once an automatic, it had a timing control thingy on it. The thermo switch(2 green wires) connected to your coolant housing activated the thermo relay(located below the ignition coil). One of those green wires is power and the other goes to the coil in the thermo relay(green wire to black). Once the thermo relay is activated it closes a connection from the ignition coil to a connection(red/black wire to black) to your, once had, dual point distributor using the retard section of it. So you should see that the connector to the thermo relay has 4 wires, 2 black and 1 green and 1 red/black. And depending on the temperature of the car, it would adjust the timing. One of those enivironmental emissions ideas. So cold car would use the advanced section of your distributor and when it warmed up it would use the retard section of your distributor. http://www.pbase.com/nwar/image/113060611 One of those 2 black wires(photo of you holding them in your hand) going to your distributor area is the second connection of your distributor. One with the bigger connector looks like something I have in my car. I once had a dual point distributor, but I left my car with a few mechanics and I think they ganked it. Because when I bought it I was stunned to see a dual point in my car. Oh well... Anyway, with my single point distributor I have removed the thermo switch, the thermo relay, the wiring that was associated with these components and the car runs ok. You should get a Haynes technical manual. It has some great schematics. Edited May 27, 2009 by Nwar Forgot something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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